Gospel... moved from the law and eternal life thread

[dagar]

So why does Paul refer to the cross as God's foolishness?

It is the power of God -1Co 1:18, 23, not the beginning of a war of ideas . There's nothing about a war of ideas in the text BroRog. The power of God to those who are saved IS throughout the text.

That a man believes in his death burial and resurrection with Christ makes a new man and gives him victory over the world the flesh and the devil is foolish to those that do not know it. That's all that is being said there, is why Christ is made all those things to those that believe, and why no flesh can glory and we can only glory in the Lord/in the cross.

That one man who died would transform and empower those that believe in the man that died is foolish to those that do not believe. It is not foolishness to those that believe. To those that believe it is the power of God. He did not remain dead, and neither do those that believe.

Joh 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

The gospel of ideas is alive and well in the church, but it's not the power of God. Only Christ crucified is.

[BroRog]

It is the power of God -1Co 1:18, 23, not the beginning of a war of ideas . There's nothing about a war of ideas in the text BroRog.

Yes, there is. Look again. If you don't see it, perhaps you are superimposing something else.

[dagar]

No BroRog, it is you superimposing this nonsense
"the cross wasn't a good thing. It was an embarrassment; it was the focal point of a deep hurt and disappointment"
"The cross didn't destroy the works of the devil, at least not immediately. The cross was simply the first salvo against the enemy but the war of ideas continues."
I don't see it because it's not there, not to mention absurd. I appreciate the time you took to answer but it's like many wordy commentaries. Matthew Henry comes to mind. If you need to use that many words to express, contrary to the text, the cross is not the power of God to those that are saved, but rather philosophy and humanistic principles is the way to go, you are exactly what scripture, specifically Colossians 2, warns against.

[ProjectPeter]

No BroRog, it is you superimposing this nonsense
"the cross wasn't a good thing. It was an embarrassment; it was the focal point of a deep hurt and disappointment"
"The cross didn't destroy the works of the devil, at least not immediately. The cross was simply the first salvo against the enemy but the war of ideas continues."
I don't see it because it's not there, not to mention absurd. I appreciate the time you took to answer but it's like many wordy commentaries. Matthew Henry comes to mind. If you need to use that many words to express, contrary to the text, the cross is not the power of God to those that are saved, but rather philosophy and humanistic principles is the way to go, you are exactly what scripture, specifically Colossians 2, warns against.

Not sure you would get this in most commentaries because folks, today, dang near idolize the cross. You'd do well actually paying attention to what is said here. It is actually explained very well.

[ProjectPeter]

Let me take this time too to just toss in... the words in a song several have linked to and spoken about in here. He's not a baby in a manger any more. He's not a broken man on a cross. He didn't stay... in the grave... and He's not staying in heaven forever. He's Alive... looking back to the cross because of what He did is great and necessary. Just don't stay there.

[dagar]

Let me take this time too to just toss in... the words in a song several have linked to and spoken about in here. He's not a baby in a manger any more. He's not a broken man on a cross. He didn't stay... in the grave... and He's not staying in heaven forever. He's Alive... looking back to the cross because of what He did is great and necessary. Just don't stay there.

Believing the gospel is not staying there because Christ crucified and the cross in 1Corinthians is not just the death of cross. It includes the resurrection. That's why it says it is the power of God. How absurd to think death is power. The seed must first die to bring forth fruit. He is risen! That is indeed the point! Great you realize that.

[ProjectPeter]

Believing the gospel is not staying there because Christ crucified and the cross in 1Corinthians is not just the death of cross. It includes the resurrection. That's why it says it is the power of God. How absurd to think death is power. The seed must first die to bring forth fruit. He is risen! That is indeed the point! Great you realize that.

And you brilliantly missed the point. Couldn't have been missed any better!

[dagar]

Might want to try more than one line to make a point son.

[ProjectPeter]

Might want to try more than one line to make a point son.

Why? The original post you responded to was more than one line and like a 747... whooooosh!

As to the "son" thing... not a good idea.

[dagar]

That long post concerning first century Christians says
"the cross wasn't a good thing. It was an embarrassment; it was the focal point of a deep hurt and disappointment"
"The cross didn't destroy the works of the devil, at least not immediately. The cross was simply the first salvo against the enemy but the war of ideas continues."
Scripture says otherwise. Very simple.

[ProjectPeter]

That long post concerning first century Christians says
"the cross wasn't a good thing. It was an embarrassment; it was the focal point of a deep hurt and disappointment"
"The cross didn't destroy the works of the devil, at least not immediately. The cross was simply the first salvo against the enemy but the war of ideas continues."
Scripture says otherwise. Very simple.

Where does it say otherwise?

[dagar]

Throughout. For just a few, see post #161.

[ProjectPeter]

Throughout. For just a few, see post #161.

Hate to break this to you and all because you seem so adamant about it... but that post doesn't say anything different either pro or con.

[dagar]

What do these say? The cross is a salvo? Is the object

1. the cross
2. the message

?

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The message! The things of the Spirit. The message and things of the Spirit are foolish to non believers, not the cross. To believers, the message is the power of God, wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption. Sounds pro not con to me!

So one more time, where does scripture say the message is foolish to believers? That the message "wasn't a good thing. It was an embarrassment; it was the focal point of a deep hurt and disappointment" and "didn't destroy the works of the devil, at least not immediately."? Please do enlighten all of us that put our hope in the gospel!

[ProjectPeter]

That isn't at all what Roger was saying.