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View Poll Results: Is Jesus' Deity an essential part of salvific faith?

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  • Yes.

    29 87.88%
  • No.

    1 3.03%
  • Unsure, leaning Yes.

    2 6.06%
  • Unsure, leaning No.

    1 3.03%
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Thread: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarification.)

  1. #1
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    Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarification.)

    Is the Deity of Christ essential for true saving faith?! If not, what is the essential?! If so, why?!

    Either way, scripture please.


    I affirm the Deity of Christ. I don't see a mandate in scripture that says it is a requirement.

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Sure it is! When we repent, we repent (have a change of mind or heart about) of WHO Christ is. He is God in the form of a man, who came to pay the price for our sins.
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter View Post
    Sure it is! When we repent, we repent (have a change of mind or heart about) of WHO Christ is. He is God in the form of a man, who came to pay the price for our sins.
    Though I whole-heartedly believe that personally, I don't find that in the Word as I've been searching it lately. Any passages you could point me to that I'm overlooking?

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    "Who do you say that I am?" ~ Jesus Christ
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Does a person need to believe that a lifeguard is indeed a lifeguard before he can be rescued and saved from drowning?
    Last edited by episkopos; Mar 5th 2011 at 05:07 PM.

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter View Post
    "Who do you say that I am?" ~ Jesus Christ
    Yes, John 6:69. "And we believe and are sure that thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

    Existing faith will affirm this as the Deity of Christ, but that's not what it actually says.

    I'm not arguing against Christ's Deity, just trying to substantiate it specifically from the Word. So far, I cannot; which prompts my question.

  7. #7

    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Not sure it has to be for the human Jesus. What does it mean for a man to be deity?

    Paul doesn't seem to think it necessary, as Jesus doesn't become the "divine son" until his resurrection:

    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Romans 1:3-4

    Other translations say "designated the Son of God..." Well what was Jesus before the resurrection, in Paul's mind? Anything from Paul that would give us a clue?

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by episkopos View Post
    Does a person need to believe that a lifeguard is indeed a lifeguard before he can be rescued and saved from frowning?
    No. (What does a frown have to do with lifeguards or Jesus? Lol.)

    I think this may be my point. Even though He IS Deity, is that a necessary component of salvation initially or eventually? Can a belief in Jesus as the identity of God be salvific without believing He is the nature of God?

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by WSGAC View Post
    Not sure it has to be for the human Jesus. What does it mean for a man to be deity?

    Paul doesn't seem to think in necessary, as Jesus doesn't become the "divine son" until his resurrection:

    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Romans 1:3-4

    Other translations say "designated the Son of God..." Well what was Jesus before the resurrection, in Paul's mind? Anything from Paul that would give us a clue?
    I think that's essentially where I'm going with this. Not whether He IS Deity, but whether salavation depends on believing He was.

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    How are you defining "deity" ontologically, or by his character? We can understand the term "deity" in terms of what kind of "stuff" Jesus is made of, i.e. God like stuff. Or we can understand "deity" in terms of the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions, i.e. God like character.

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by BroRog View Post
    How are you defining "deity" ontologically, or by his character? We can understand the term "deity" in terms of what kind of "stuff" Jesus is made of, i.e. God like stuff. Or we can understand "deity" in terms of the inherent complex of attributes that determines a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions, i.e. God like character.
    I'm actually including either/both. Orthodoxy has represented ontological-nature of substance ("stuff"), but other God-models present it as non-ontological by identity.

    I'm not really setting the stage of contending for/against that Deity or type, just looking for scripture and responses on whether it is an essential for salvific faith.

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Why then the accusation of blasphemy in Matthew 9:3??? Jesus being God is integral to His ability to forgive us of our sins.
    For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? ~ Deuteronomy 5:26

    If you're not prepared to risk your very life for your "enemy" you have no right to speak to him of love. ~ Daughter

    Many say they are called... but I am pretty convinced that with many of them it was the wrong number. ~ Project Peter

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    I'm actually including either/both. Orthodoxy has represented ontological-nature of substance ("stuff"), but other God-models present it as non-ontological by identity.

    I'm not really setting the stage of contending for/against that Deity or type, just looking for scripture and responses on whether it is an essential for salvific faith.
    I can't actually participate in your pole if you aren't going to settle on one or the other. I realize that Catholics and certain denominations will declare a person anathema if they refuse to affirm that Jesus is divine in his ontological nature. Given this view, I would disagree with them. I don't think anyone is anathema who does not affirm that Jesus is divine in his ontological nature. However, I think that one should eventually come to understand that Jesus is divine by his identity as God, having all the same complex set of character attributes of God the father such that Jesus can tell Philip, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father."

    I don't think all Christians start out with this understanding and they may never come to this understanding. And so I can't say whether God will save such a person or not, especially as I don't think God saves us based on having a complete knowledge of the entire picture.

    Having said that, I think we should eventually come to understand that when Jesus asked, "Who do you say that I am?", the correct answer is, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And what Peter meant to say is, "you are that one particular son of God, who is the image of God, who is going to rule for God on earth, who represents God to us human beings in every way possible for a human being to actually be God, the one who has God's identity, who is God incarnate, and stands to inherit the entire assembly, his church." Peter was speaking into a larger context in which God, through the prophets, had taught Israel to anticipate a coming one, a holy one who would bring about a kingdom of righteousness and goodness and that God himself would rule among his people. To say that Jesus is the Christ is to say that Jesus is THAT person who is God living among his people and ruling them from Zion. Given that God taught his people to anticipate such a man, Peter was saying, "you be the man."

    I think Christians need to understand this and affirm it in order to claim to be Christian. But God gives us lots of lea way to make mistakes in our theology, so I can't honestly say that anyone who doesn't get it is anathema. We are all in process.

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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    Though I whole-heartedly believe that personally, I don't find that in the Word as I've been searching it lately. Any passages you could point me to that I'm overlooking?
    Hope these help you...

    John 6:35 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36 "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

    John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

    John 11:27 She *said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."

    John 12:36 "While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light." These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them.

    John 12:39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again,


    John 20:31
    but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

    Acts 8:37 [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]

    1 John 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

    1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
    ... there are few who find it."


    -----------------------------------------------

    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

    The New American Standard Bible®,
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis


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    Re: Is the Deity of Christ an essential to salvific faith?! (See OP for clarificatio

    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    Though I whole-heartedly believe that personally, I don't find that in the Word as I've been searching it lately. Any passages you could point me to that I'm overlooking?
    I figure that the scriptures in Matthew 16:13-20 would answer your question and need for scripture. Then in chapter 17 we read about the transfiguration of Christ.

    Peter was given the correct answer about who Christ is (chapter 16) by the Holy Spirit and then had proof 6 days later. We get to read about what they say and experienced so that scripture clinches an answer... for me it does, anyway.
    Slug1--out

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