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Thread: The Rules of the Pharisees

  1. #46
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    A harsh taskmaster.
    Cats usually are!

    Come on aren't they are used today in the barmitzvah?
    Where in the bible may they be found?
    Under whose authority?
    Jospehus? The Talmud?

    God is the Judge of all the earth. God has said that evil rulers are not a terror to good works but to evil. Do that which is good and thou shalt have reward of the same. Well at least He did in the NT Rom 13:3 Saul was made king even though he was not Gods first choice.
    You didn't answer my question.

    Carefull the cat bites.
    cats sometimes do...
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  2. #47
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Where in the bible may they be found?
    The bible is found in them and they are on the shelf next to the bible covers.
    Jospehus? The Talmud?
    The high preist?
    You didn't answer my question.
    I'm not God. Good thing no doubt.
    cats sometimes do...
    Only natural.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

  3. #48
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    You know, there were plenty of worse crimes he could have been complaining about. There were robbers, and killers, and rapists. The Romans occupied Judea and levied heavy taxes against the populace, and apponted the High Priest to the Highest Bidder. Really. There were Jews who wanted to be Roman and Greek, culturally and religiously. There were plenty of people who flat out ignored the law.

    The Pharisees acting extra-religious is the big issue to him? I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

    Unless of course Jesus wanted to de-legitimize them. So that people would follow him, perhaps?
    Fenris:

    Perhaps you don't see the Pharisees "acting extra-religious" as a big deal because you don't understand what Jesus was getting at by denouncing them in the first place. From what I've read in the Bible, I think what was going on was that they thought that the way to be pleasing to God was to have all your theological ducks in a row, so to speak. But, they were doing it for all the wrong reasons. As Diggindeeper pointed out, they were doing all the right things because they perceived God as a big "cosmic bookkeeper in the sky," so to speak, who keeps a balance sheet of our sins and good deeds, and when there are more good deeds than bad, He loves us. But, if our bad deeds outweigh the good, He doesn't. Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't teach that at all, so when Jesus came along, teaching that God's love is unconditional and is based on His nature and character, rather than on what we do or don't do, this threatened everything the Pharisees stood for. After all, who likes to have their whole theology shown to be based on faulty presuppositions about how God works? Besides, one of the other main reasons the Pharisees didn't like Jesus was He was immensely popular with the ordinary people, so they were jealous of Him having more followers than them. Just some things to think about. God bless, and have a great day in the Lord!

    Yours in Christ,

    Benjamin
    "Mark the blameless man, and behold the upright; for the man of peace will have a posterity." Psalms 37:37, NASB

    "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." Matthew 5:9, NASB

    "The only people who do not see Christ and his teachings as nonviolent are Christians."
    Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Fighting to preserve peace is like [expletive deleted] to preserve virginity." Dr. Stanley Hauerwas, Gilbert T. Rowe Professor of Theological Ethics, Duke University Divinity School

  4. #49
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Several Pharisees became believers in Christ.

  5. #50
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    The bible is found in them and they are on the shelf next to the bible covers.
    Ahem. Where in the bible do we find the obligation to wear phylacteries?
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  6. #51
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by thethirdtuttle View Post
    Fenris:

    Perhaps you don't see the Pharisees "acting extra-religious" as a big deal because you don't understand what Jesus was getting at by denouncing them in the first place.
    I don't understand why it was so important to condemn people who were essentially doing the right thing, even if (as you claim) for the wrong reasons. The OT prophets tended to condemn far far worse behavior.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  7. #52
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I don't understand why it was so important to condemn people who were essentially doing the right thing, even if (as you claim) for the wrong reasons. The OT prophets tended to condemn far far worse behavior.
    This is an essential issue for our faith. Jesus expected the Pharisees to both do the right thing and do them for the right reason.

    An example of the principle, is found at the wedding between a wealthy 70 year-old man and a 25 year-old woman who has little money. When the woman verbally expresses her love for the man, is her love true and genuine or is she pretending. Did she marry for money? Is she pure of heart or double minded?

    David expresses this idea in Psalm 32, and Pslam 51 where he reminds himself that the sacrifices God wants are a broken spirit and a contrite heart. David practiced his religion and obeyed God, but he also gives expression to his inner life, reminding himself that God desires "truth in the innermost being. He knows that forgiveness is granted, not to those who merely go through the motions of the rituals, but to those who are honest, contrite, humble, truthful in spirit.

    Jesus criticized the Pharisees, not because they did the right things, but because they were simply acting out the part of a righteous person. It was all an act for some of them. Just as the man in the commercial says, "I am not a doctor but I play one on TV", the Pharisee would say, if he were honest, "I'm not a good person but I play the part." David would say, to the Pharisee, God doesn't want you to play act, he wants you to be honest, genuine, true, without deceit in the innermost being, contrite, and broken. Obedience to God isn't simply keeping the rules, it has to be real -- a genuine expression of a true love of God.

  8. #53
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by BroRog View Post
    This is an essential issue for our faith. Jesus expected the Pharisees to both do the right thing and do them for the right reason.
    The OT prophets lectured on justice, righteousness, and idolatry, and general disregarding of the law.

    Jesus lectured on people following the law, although not for the right reasons.

    Consider me underwhelmed.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  9. #54
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Ahem. Where in the bible do we find the obligation to wear phylacteries?
    What would cause you to think it was an obligation? It was done as a religious pretense. If anyone made it an obligation it was the Pharisees not God.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Consider me underwhelmed.
    Hey that would make a great tee shirt.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

  11. #56
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    What would cause you to think it was an obligation? It was done as a religious pretense. If anyone made it an obligation it was the Pharisees not God.
    Really? How odd. Because Jesus doesn't condemn the practice of wearing phylacteries. He only complains that they are "too wide"...
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  12. #57
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    Hey that would make a great tee shirt.
    Yeah...now some lurker who doesn't even post here is going to make a million dollars off it. Sigh.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  13. #58
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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Really? How odd. Because Jesus doesn't condemn the practice of wearing phylacteries. He only complains that they are "too wide"...
    All things in moderation.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Yeah...now some lurker who doesn't even post here is going to make a million dollars off it. Sigh.
    The machines in China are tooling up even as we speak.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

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    Re: The Rules of the Pharisees

    Quote Originally Posted by notuptome View Post
    All things in moderation.
    Where in the bible is the practice of wearing phylacteries written?
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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