From Passover to easter.

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

I wonder if Romans 14 would apply to this thread?

[John 8:32]

I wonder if Romans 14 would apply to this thread?

What is the subject of Rom 14?

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

The entire chapter is based on what you put in your mouth, not the Passover or Easter. It is about being very circumspect about your dietary habits so that you do not offend a brother. If I am in the presence of one who has trouble with alcohol, or is offended by alcohol, I do not drink alcohol. If I am in the presence of a vegetarian who would be offended by a carnivore (me) then I don't eat meat. It is about not offending your brother with your dietary habits.

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

I'm not so sure Romans 14 is about dietary habit...

[Ceegen]

To be fair, Romans 14 isn't specifically about "Easter" either. I would like to see what connections you make there, though.

I don't think God is going to punish us for forgetting to celebrate the actual holiday, or whatever, but I am sure God doesn't want us celebrating the wrong holiday. That's the whole point. And to top it all off, the one time "Easter" is used in our English version of the bible, it was intentionally mistranslated from the word "Passover". It is a lie.

I just do not understand the need to vindicate celebrating a holiday having pagan origins, simply because of tradition, because it's been done for so long now; and no one wants to change? Are we too set in our ways? Confusing to me.

[John 8:32]

I'm not so sure Romans 14 is about dietary habit...

What is the chapter about?

[tim_from_pa]

I just do not understand the need to vindicate celebrating a holiday having pagan origins, simply because of tradition, because it's been done for so long now; and no one wants to change? Are we too set in our ways? Confusing to me.

That was always a head-scratcher for me, too. Then again, probably it's because those who stick to traditional holidays don't want to admit they were duped? So, then, some seeing their error retort "it does not matter which day, anyway, it's all what's in the heart." So says their scripture I think in Hezekiah 34:17.

You are correct, God made "set times" astronomically fixed. And it has nothing to do with my interest, or the fact I'm a gnomonist although these persuations help a lot.

I made an interesting observation. The Jews missed the fulfillment of the earlier feast days in the spring (e.g. Passover) and it's the reason they were blind to Christ's first coming.

However, the Christians miss the coming fulfillment of the latter feasts which have to do with His Second Coming, and they are blinded later because "we don't have to keep the feasts (or Law) any longer". Consequently, you even have so-called Christians who do not even believe in Christ's Second Coming any longer. They act as if everything stopped after Pentecost --- so is the price for not being observant of God's calendar.

Case in point regarding the latter feasts. Ever see a Protestant litergical calendar? How many times do you see something in the bulleton like "this is the 437th Sunday after Pentecost? (to exaggerate a tad) They don't know how to keep Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles or the Last Great Day. Instead, it goes into "all saints day" and Advent --- from a Spring feastival to a winter one!!!

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

Sorry, should have been more specific. If someone celebrates the resurrection of Christ on easter Sunday, how is that different from us celebrating Christmas during Winter solace(don't think that's the correct spelling). Romans 14 says not to judge what day someone celebrates an event. Now, as far as doing the easter egg thing, yes, Eastar was the goddess of fertility, and the bunnies and eggs do represent that. I do not like that aspect of the event, and I actually call the time of year, "Resurrection Day". Now, is it a sin to hunt eggs on easter Sunday? I dont' think so, not unless you are worshipping a pagan god. God knows the heart

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

They don't know how to keep Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles or the Last Great Day. Instead, it goes into "all saints day" and Advent --- from a Spring feastival to a winter one!!!

I agree. My brother and his wife do children's church and they did Passover with the kids Sunday. Man, I need to do more studying into the Jewish feast. I would love to start celebrating them all the time. There is so much that points to Christ and reveals so much.

[John 8:32]

Sorry, should have been more specific. If someone celebrates the resurrection of Christ on easter Sunday, how is that different from us celebrating Christmas during Winter solace(don't think that's the correct spelling). Romans 14 says not to judge what day someone celebrates an event. Now, as far as doing the easter egg thing, yes, Eastar was the goddess of fertility, and the bunnies and eggs do represent that. I do not like that aspect of the event, and I actually call the time of year, "Resurrection Day". Now, is it a sin to hunt eggs on easter Sunday? I dont' think so, not unless you are worshipping a pagan god. God knows the heart

That was always a head-scratcher for me, too. Then again, probably it's because those who stick to traditional holidays don't want to admit they were duped? So, then, some seeing their error retort "it does not matter which day, anyway, it's all what's in the heart." So says their scripture I think in Hezekiah 34:17.

You are correct, God made "set times" astronomically fixed. And it has nothing to do with my interest, or the fact I'm a gnomonist although these persuations help a lot.

I made an interesting observation. The Jews missed the fulfillment of the earlier feast days in the spring (e.g. Passover) and it's the reason they were blind to Christ's first coming.

However, the Christians miss the coming fulfillment of the latter feasts which have to do with His Second Coming, and they are blinded later because "we don't have to keep the feasts (or Law) any longer". Consequently, you even have so-called Christians who do not even believe in Christ's Second Coming any longer. They act as if everything stopped after Pentecost --- so is the price for not being observant of God's calendar.

Case in point regarding the latter feasts. Ever see a Protestant litergical calendar? How many times do you see something in the bulleton like "this is the 437th Sunday after Pentecost? (to exaggerate a tad) They don't know how to keep Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles or the Last Great Day. Instead, it goes into "all saints day" and Advent --- from a Spring feastival to a winter one!!!

Very good point, Tim my friend. One cannot understand the plan of God without keeping the Holydays. After all they are...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

They are the shadow of His entire plan. His entire plan did not end on 31AD.


Another point to consider is does it really matter which days we keep? As long as our attitude is one of honoring God, the day doesn't matter...

Deu 12:29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
Deu 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deu 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

How about this one...

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

God is not satisfied with us just doing our thing, He has prescribed certain things for us to do and if we do not do them, He is not pleased...

2Sa 6:1 Again, David gathered together all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand.
2Sa 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.
2Sa 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.
2Sa 6:4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.
2Sa 6:5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.
2Sa 6:6 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
2Sa 6:7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

Wasn't Uzzah just trying to keep the Ark from falling off the cart? Wasn't His heart right? Here is the problem...

Num 4:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
Num 4:2 Take the sum of the sons of Kohath from among the sons of Levi, after their families, by the house of their fathers,
Num 4:3 From thirty years old and upward even until fifty years old, all that enter into the host, to do the work in the tabernacle of the congregation.
Num 4:4 This shall be the service of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation, about the most holy things:
Num 4:5 And when the camp setteth forward, Aaron shall come, and his sons, and they shall take down the covering vail, and cover the ark of testimony with it:
Num 4:6 And shall put thereon the covering of badgers' skins, and shall spread over it a cloth wholly of blue, and shall put in the staves thereof.
Num 4:7 And upon the table of shewbread they shall spread a cloth of blue, and put thereon the dishes, and the spoons, and the bowls, and covers to cover withal: and the continual bread shall be thereon:
Num 4:8 And they shall spread upon them a cloth of scarlet, and cover the same with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put in the staves thereof.
Num 4:9 And they shall take a cloth of blue, and cover the candlestick of the light, and his lamps, and his tongs, and his snuffdishes, and all the oil vessels thereof, wherewith they minister unto it:
Num 4:10 And they shall put it and all the vessels thereof within a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put it upon a bar.
Num 4:11 And upon the golden altar they shall spread a cloth of blue, and cover it with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put to the staves thereof:
Num 4:12 And they shall take all the instruments of ministry, wherewith they minister in the sanctuary, and put them in a cloth of blue, and cover them with a covering of badgers' skins, and shall put them on a bar:
Num 4:13 And they shall take away the ashes from the altar, and spread a purple cloth thereon:
Num 4:14 And they shall put upon it all the vessels thereof, wherewith they minister about it, even the censers, the fleshhooks, and the shovels, and the basons, all the vessels of the altar; and they shall spread upon it a covering of badgers' skins, and put to the staves of it.
Num 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.

Num 7:9 But unto the sons of Kohath he gave none: because the service of the sanctuary belonging unto them was that they should bear upon their shoulders.

The Ark was not to be touched by anyone except the sons of Aaron and they had to put staves through rings on the side. Then the Ark was to be carried only by the sons of Kohath. Did it matter exactly how it was done? Ask Uzzah in the resurrection.

[John 8:32]

Again, the only place I could find an Easter sunrise service in the Bible is here...

Eze 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
Eze 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
Eze 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

The entire eighth chapter is an interesting read. Does it really matter which days and what ceremonies we keep?

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

Again, the only place I could find an Easter sunrise service in the Bible is here...

Eze 8:13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
Eze 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
Eze 8:15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

The entire eighth chapter is an interesting read. Does it really matter which days and what ceremonies we keep?

I've never been to an easter service where they worshipped the sun. We've always celebrated the resurrection of Christ. This debate could go on, and on, and on....

Uzzah was not to touch the ark of the covenant, and they should not have put it on a new cart. They disobeyed the instructions, and Uzzah did EXACTLY what was said not to do. God's Word tells us not to Worship any other god. When I said God sees the heart, He sees who people are worshipping. Some worship football, entertainment, porn. Again, if it's a sin to hunt plastic eggs, it's a sin to have Christmas trees.

[John 8:32]

I've never been to an easter service where they worshipped the sun. We've always celebrated the resurrection of Christ. This debate could go on, and on, and on....

Uzzah was not to touch the ark of the covenant, and they should not have put it on a new cart. They disobeyed the instructions, and Uzzah did EXACTLY what was said not to do. God's Word tells us not to Worship any other god. When I said God sees the heart, He sees who people are worshipping. Some worship football, entertainment, porn. Again, if it's a sin to hunt plastic eggs, it's a sin to have Christmas trees.

I do neither, I keep the Feasts of the Lord as outlined in Lev 23

[tim_from_pa]

One other observation I made involving others justifying traditions is that they say it's most important to see the spiritual significance of the days in the calendar. E.g. the sabbath is the sabbath of rest in Christ. Passover is His sacrifice and "we can worship on any day".

OK.... fine and dandy. However, I'll wager dollars to donuts that the same ones who would enlighten the feast-day keepers to their spiritual significance supposedly learned to spiritually run when they never actually learned to walk in the physical manifestations of these prophecies. In other words and in short, those who would "explain the feast days" probably never kept a one, and probably would flunk a test if asked what they were.

I would have more respect if someone kept them at first, and upon growing deeper in Christ later "esteemed every day alike". Such a person could then say, "Been there, done that." But instead there's people that I am perceiving (to politely put it) are know-it-alls telling feast keepers why these days are no longer necessary, and then continue on and keep their Christmases, and Easters, and Lents and whatnot. Wait a minute! I thought it did not matter. Obviously it does matter as they can be depended on to keep a worldly holiday like clockwork and attach (or rationalize) it's meaning to Christ. So, if one must keep something, then why not the holidays God ordained and attach those days to Christ instead? Then... if you believe the Spirit graduated you beyond keeping of specific days. Fine --- but then nothing should be kept according to that philosophy, not something else.

That is basically all I'm sayin'.

[tim_from_pa]

Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Hey John 8:32:

You think we should start a thread why many churches face east? I'd love to hear the supposed reasons (or rationalizations) for that one. If anyone wants to start one, I'll pitch in a comment or two. But that's not the topic of this thread, so I'll refrain here.

[John 8:32]

Hey John 8:32:

You think we should start a thread why many churches face east? I'd love to hear the supposed reasons (or rationalizations) for that one. If anyone wants to start one, I'll pitch in a comment or two. But that's not the topic of this thread, so I'll refrain here.

Might be interesting, after all you don't go to a Easter SUNRISE service and face East as the sun rises to worship the sun, it is all in the name of the Lord. (Deut 12:30-32) By the way, I wonder who Tammuz was and what was his relationship to Ishtar (pronounced Easter)?