The Book of Job...explain????

[ewq1938]

there is at least one translation where the word "repent" is not used.

He repented. This is clear after reading all the horrible things he said about God, then God's confrontation of him and then this:

Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

It's only natural that after Job realizes that he has spoken things he did not understand that he then repents:

Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

[Bandit]

He repented. This is clear after reading all the horrible things he said about God, then God's confrontation of him and then this:
...

Just asking, but what are "all the horrible things he [Job] said about God".

[ewq1938]

Just asking, but what are "all the horrible things he [Job] said about God".

Here is a partial work on it.

Job 1:19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Job is holding up very well after some very horrible things! Yet, this does give us a slight hint about what might take place eventually within this story.

Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Again, very terrible events take place and even his wife thinks he should curse God! But Job does not! Job has not “sinned with his lips”….yet.


Job 3:1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

Now we see that Job is having trouble dealing with what he has been through. He will continue through the rest of the chapter speaking very ill of his life and fortune.

After his friend tries to console him he begins again:


Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.


Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?


Job 6:5 Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
Job 6:6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
Job 6:7 The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
Job 6:8 Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
Job 6:10 Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
Job 6:11 What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
Job 6:12 Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
Job 6:13 Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
Job 6:14 To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
Job 6:15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
Job 6:16 Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
Job 6:17 What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
Job 6:18 The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
Job 6:19 The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
Job 6:20 They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
Job 6:21 For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
Job 6:22 Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
Job 6:23 Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

Little does Job know that he shall eventually be scolded and taught by God himself, and he would come to understand the errors of his tongue. This takes place near the end of the book for several chapters but is awhile yet in the future. Job continues:


Job 6:25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
Job 6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
Job 6:28 Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?

Pride is deceptive. It assures you that you are right, even when you are not. Job cannot yet see how his tongue is full of iniquity and untruth about God but he will be shown the truth.





Job speaks:

Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.


Job is not going to be quiet about the injustice he feels God is forcing upon him! He will speak out openly and loudly!


Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:


“When I go to bed I should be allowed a safe and pleasant time but, no, God is there to torture me in my sleep!”


Job 7:15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.

“I’d rather be strangled to death than live like this!”


Job 7:16 I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?

"What makes you so concerned about us humans? Why do you test us from sunrise to sunset? Won't you look away just long enough for me to swallow? Why do you watch us so closely?"


Job later says:




Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

“If God came into court when I called him, he would not hear my case in fact he would strike me with a storm and increase my injuries for no reason at all!”




Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
Job 9:19 If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.


“Even if I were innocent, God would prove me wrong. I am not guilty, but I no longer care what happens to me.”






Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

“God destroys the innocent along with the guilty.”

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

“When a good person dies a sudden death, God sits back and laughs.
And who else but God blindfolds the judges, then lets the wicked take over the earth? “


WOAH! Verse 23 is quite a statement by Job! That if a man should die accidentally while being punished, that God would laugh at the trial of an innocent man. This means that Job feels God is unjust and cruel!



Job 9:25 Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
Job 9:26 They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
Job 9:27 If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
Job 9:28 I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
Job 9:29 If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
Job 9:30 If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
Job 9:31 Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.


“Even if I washed myself with the strongest soap, God would throw me into a pit of stinking slime, leaving me disgusting to my clothes. “



Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Job 9:33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
Job 9:34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
Job 9:35 Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.

“Can someone snatch away the stick God carries to frighten me? Then I could speak up without fear of him, but for now, I cannot speak. “



Job 10:1 My soul is weary of my life; I will leave my complaint upon myself; I will speak in the bitterness of my soul.


Again, he repeats his statement in chapter 7. He will not be silent about how he feels about what he thinks God is doing to him.


Job 10:2 I will say unto God, Do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me.
Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?


“Why do you take such delight in hating your children, and in blessing sinners?”



Job 10:4 Hast thou eyes of flesh? or seest thou as man seeth?
Job 10:5 Are thy days as the days of man? are thy years as man's days,
Job 10:6 That thou enquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my sin?


“Do you look at things the way we humans do? Is your life as short as ours? Is that why you are so quick to find fault with me?”



Ouch! Job is really digging himself a deep hole. Here he actually questions Gods right to judge man because God is not flesh and it’s implied that therefore God can’t understand what its like to live in the flesh. Yet, God can understand us, and could even before Christ was born flesh. God has the right to judge flesh man, and always has.



Job 10:7 Thou knowest that I am not wicked; and there is none that can deliver out of thine hand.
Job 10:8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.

"You know I am innocent, but who can defend me against you? Will you now destroy someone you created?"


Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?
Job 10:10 Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?
Job 10:11 Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
Job 10:12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.
Job 10:13 And these things hast thou hid in thine heart: I know that this is with thee.
Job 10:14 If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.
Job 10:15 If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;

“Guilty or innocent, I am condemned and ashamed because of my troubles.”


Job 10:16 For it increaseth. Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: and again thou shewest thyself marvellous upon me.
Job 10:17 Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increasest thine indignation upon me; changes and war are against me.


“No matter how hard I try, you keep hunting me down like a powerful lion. You never stop accusing me; you become furious and attack over and over again.”



Job 10:18 Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!
Job 10:19 I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
Job 10:20 Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
Job 10:21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
Job 10:22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.


“Surely I will go to hell, a land of darkness and despair, after I die”

Next, his friend gives him some sound advice but Job dismisses it and says:


Job 12:1 And Job answered and said,
Job 12:2 No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.
Job 12:3 But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you: yea, who knoweth not such things as these?

“You think you are so great, with all the answers. But I know as much as you do, and so does everyone else”



Job 13:1 Lo, mine eye hath seen all this, mine ear hath heard and understood it.
Job 13:2 What ye know, the same do I know also: I am not inferior unto you.


“I know and understand every bit of this. None of you are smarter than I am; there's nothing you know that I don't.”


Then Job addresses God:


Job 13:20 Only do not two things unto me: then will I not hide myself from thee.
Job 13:21 Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid.
Job 13:22 Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.
Job 13:23 How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.


“I ask only two things of you, my God, and I will no longer hide from you. Stop punishing and terrifying me! Then speak, and I will reply; or else let me speak, and you reply. Please point out my sins, so I will know them.”


Job 13:24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?
Job 13:25 Wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble?
Job 13:26 For thou writest bitter things against me, and makest me to possess the iniquities of my youth.


“Why have you turned your back and count me your enemy? Do you really enjoy frightening a fallen leaf? Why do you accuse me of horrible crimes and make me pay for sins I did in my youth?”


Job 13:27 Thou puttest my feet also in the stocks, and lookest narrowly unto all my paths; thou settest a print upon the heels of my feet.
Job 13:28 And he, as a rotten thing, consumeth, as a garment that is moth eaten.


If only Job could have known that it was Satan, not God, that persecuted him…

Job continues his verbal assault upon God:


Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
Job 14:2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Job 14:3 And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?

“Life is short and sorrowful for every living soul. We are flowers that fade and shadows that vanish. And so, I ask you, God, why pick on me?”


Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

“Why don't you leave us alone and let us find some happiness while we toil and labor? When a tree is chopped down, there is always the hope that it will sprout again. Its roots and stump may rot, but at the touch of water, fresh twigs shoot up. Humans are different-- we die, and that's the end.”



Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!


“Please hide me, God, deep in the ground-- and when you are angry no more, remember to rescue me.”



Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Job 14:16 For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin?
Job 14:17 My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
Job 14:18 And surely the mountain falling cometh to nought, and the rock is removed out of his place.
Job 14:19 The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.


“In the world, mountains tumble, and rocks crumble; streams wear away stones and wash away soil. And you destroy our hopes!”

[Bandit]

Just asking, but what are "all the horrible things he [Job] said about God".

Here is a partial work on it.

Job 1...
Job is holding up very well after some very horrible things! Yet, this does give us a slight hint about what might take place eventually within this story.

Job 2...
Again, very terrible events take place and even his wife thinks he should curse God! But Job does not! Job has not “sinned with his lips”….yet.


Job 3:1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

Now we see that Job is having trouble dealing with what he has been through. He will continue through the rest of the chapter speaking very ill of his life and fortune.

Job 6...
Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?
...

You gave a very long post, but I will cut it short here, for now.

Concerning your last comment about chapter 6, does not God Himself say to satan in chapter 2:3,

"... he [Job] still holds to his integrity, although you [satan] incited Me against him"?

So does not God Himself assume some level of responsibility for what happened to Job? And as far as these arrows being symbolic, these symbolic arrows killed most of Job's family and left him in extreme pain. It is obvious to all in the story (including God Himself) that God had a hand in what happened to Job. Where they differ is why and what should be done next. So Job's attribution of these events to God is not entirely wrong - for God did allow these events to happen.

[ewq1938]

You gave a very long post, but I will cut it short here, for now.

Concerning your last comment about chapter 6, does not God Himself say to satan in chapter 2:3,

"... he [Job] still holds to his integrity, although you [satan] incited Me against him"?

So does not God Himself assume some level of responsibility for what happened to Job?

Some sure but taking that too far will get us in the same trouble it got Job:

Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Job 40:3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Job 40:5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
Job 40:6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

It is obvious to all in the story (including God Himself) that God had a hand in what happened to Job. Where they differ is why and what should be done next. So Job's attribution of these events to God is not entirely wrong - for God did allow these events to happen.

God allowed them but saying things like God helps the wicked and condemns the innocent is incorrect. Job states a great deal of unfair, wrong and scathing accusations towards God. This is usually news to people because they tend to skip over all the "boring" chapters of Job where Job says things terrible things.

Simply put, the notion that Job was perfect and remained that way the entire time through his ordeal is painfully incorrect. He was a good guy, went through very bad things...blamed and judged God and after being confronted, admitted his wrongs and repented and was blessed. It's a life lesson we all can learn from. Repent when you are wrong, God will forgive and bless you.

[webbguy4]

God stated that what job said about God was correct.

Job said he said "things too wonderful for him to understand". Job was indeed talking over his own head. when Job questioned how could God judge him when God does not "see as a man sees". When Job prayed for intercessor and when Job stated "I know that my redeemer lives and will stand upon the earth. Job said things that were wonderful, too wonderful for him too understand, but not incorrect

[webbguy4]

I consider the first response of Eliphaz the temanite.

his name and place of origin indicate this was a wise learned man, most likely older than
Job

Consider that this man has lived for years in Job's shadow. The disasters that have fallen on Job give Eliphaz the first opportunity of his life to turn the tables on Job. Typical of the irony of so much of this book eliphaz's speech includes the warnings about envy, yet envy is the force that drives him. To me the dream of Eliphaz is obviously a visitation from Satan designed to feed the envy of eliphaz.

[ewq1938]

God stated that what job said about God was correct.

Only his most recent statements. We can't apply that back to all the bad things which God confronted and corrected Job about.

Job said he said "things too wonderful for him to understand". Job was indeed talking over his own head. when Job questioned how could God judge him when God does not "see as a man sees".

One of many examples of Job speaking incorrectly about God.

When Job prayed for intercessor and when Job stated "I know that my redeemer lives and will stand upon the earth. Job said things that were wonderful, too wonderful for him too understand, but not incorrect

Not everything he said was incorrect but many things were...many of which I've quoted and posted so if you deny Job spoke incorrectly then go to that post and read what Job said and comment on each thing please.

http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...28#post2859728

[ewq1938]

I consider the first response of Eliphaz the temanite.

his name and place of origin indicate this was a wise learned man, most likely older than
Job

Most likely older? Exactly what evidence tells you his or Job's age?

I'll tell you something about his name:

Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.


464

0464 'Eliyphaz {el-ee-faz'}

from 0410 and 06337;; n pr m

AV - Eliphaz 15; 15

Eliphaz = "my God is (fine) gold"
1) Esau's son, father of Teman
2) the Temanite friend of Job


H464
?????
'e?li^yphaz
el-ee-faz'
From H410 and H6337; God of gold; Eliphaz, the name of one of Job’s friends, and of a son of Esau: - Eliphaz.


This mans name means his God is Gold, not exactly a great name to have, nor is being a descendant of Esau very positive.

[rejoice44]

You gave a very long post, but I will cut it short here, for now.

Concerning your last comment about chapter 6, does not God Himself say to satan in chapter 2:3,

"... he [Job] still holds to his integrity, although you [satan] incited Me against him"?

So does not God Himself assume some level of responsibility for what happened to Job? And as far as these arrows being symbolic, these symbolic arrows killed most of Job's family and left him in extreme pain. It is obvious to all in the story (including God Himself) that God had a hand in what happened to Job. Where they differ is why and what should be done next. So Job's attribution of these events to God is not entirely wrong - for God did allow these events to happen.

There are so many false premises assumed in the book of Job. There are only three sentences where God speaks in a positive light about Job, and they are taken out of context. God projects Job in a negative light for 127 verses, and when you consider that Elihu was speaking in God's stead, you have another six chapters that throw a bad light on Job.

Lets consider what God said that was positive about Job.

1. Job 1:8 "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

What does this verse mean exactly in light of Romans 5:12? "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

I read it as Job being a good, trustworthy hired servant.

2. Job 2:3 "Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? --------------and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

God repeats what God said the first time he spoke of Job, word for word. Consider the second part of that verse, "and still he holdeth fast his integrity,"

After being tried the first time Job fell down, worships, and blesses God. Job held his integrity.

Now consider the third part of that verse, "although thou movedest me against him, to destroy him without cause."

What was Satan's cause? That Job would curse God to his face. The meaning of "curse God to his face" is to curse God with your lips, in lieu of cursing God with your heart, as Job had stated about his sons in Job 1:5.

Satan had a cause for wanting Job to curse God, and that would have been Job's soul. Isn't everything about a man's soul? Satan's cause was unjustified because Job did not curse God with his lips. But what about God's cause for allowing it? Satan had a cause for what he did, and God had a cause for what God did, but they were not the same cause. This was a battle for the soul of Job.

Job had a problem, and that problem was pride. Job was not righteous enough to save his own soul, for no one is. God addresses Job's problem of pride in chapter forty one. God says to Job, "Will he make a covenant with thee?(Satan) Will thou take him for a servant forever?(Satan) Proof that it is Satan God is speaking of is found in the last verse of chapter forty one, when God says, "He beholdeth all high things Remember that it was Satan in chapter one that was beholding the meeting of God with his sons.) he is the king over all the children of pride."(Who else other than Satan is king over the children of pride?)

Isaiah 27:1 we are told that leviathan is a crooked serpent, and a dragon that will be punished at the end of days. We find that same serpent in Genesis chapter three, and that same serpent and dragon in Revelation 12:9, where he is called Satan.

Was God fair, or righteous, in taking Job's children? Consider that Job thought that his children had cursed God in their hearts, and then consider that they were eating and drinking, just as in the days of Noe, when every evil person was killed.

When Job took the second test he did not pass it. He did not prostrate himself before God, nor did he worship God. And what was spoken of Job by God after the second test? Nothing!

[Scooby_Snacks]

You gave a very long post, but I will cut it short here, for now.

Concerning your last comment about chapter 6, does not God Himself say to satan in chapter 2:3,

"... he [Job] still holds to his integrity, although you [satan] incited Me against him"?

So does not God Himself assume some level of responsibility for what happened to Job? And as far as these arrows being symbolic, these symbolic arrows killed most of Job's family and left him in extreme pain. It is obvious to all in the story (including God Himself) that God had a hand in what happened to Job. Where they differ is why and what should be done next. So Job's attribution of these events to God is not entirely wrong - for God did allow these events to happen.

I dont want to interrupt the conversation between anyone, I just wanted to point out that this does make sense to me. God allowed Satan to do things to Job, so yes, God was responsible for the removal/partial removal of His protection from Job and his family.
Anyway, I was wondering about this, just this morning, and Im glad to have my question answered.
Will be checking in further.

Please Continue.


I am adding this...

No matter what, Job's original understanding of God through his own knowledge was shown to be wanting. I think this does represent pride. My question this morning concerning Job was geared for today.
What does one do when the only deliverence for a person can come from Gods decision to no longer allow darkness to overcome him? One can put on spiritual armor, have others pray for them, believe in faith for deliverance, but God still decides? What is different from the O.T. Job and todays Christian who has The Holy Spirit of God living inside of him?
So yes still mulling over this....

[webbguy4]

God said to Eliphaz "you have not spoken of me what is right as my servant Job has". this says to me God was talking about the whole length of the arguments between Job and friends.

Job sacrificed on behalf of his children saying "perhaps they have cursed God in their hearts" which to me means Job was happy and pleased with his children and was only concerned with their secret thoughts because they showed no outward sign of unrighteousness. And why would you here endorse the arguments that Job's children deserved to die?

So many claim that Job needed to learn some kind of lesson from God , that's why his children died, his wife left and his body mutilated? really? you think that makes life fair? Is that what you say when you visit people who are grieving or sick? that you deserved this? Do you need me to site chapter and verse where Jesus said that is ....(restrain from vulgarity) not true?

[webbguy4]

God had a plan more clever than the satan's. to lay out in no uncertain terms the unfairness of life before the best man on earth and allow that man to lay out the plan whereby God could be reconciled with a fallen world

[webbguy4]

eliphaz likely older than Job :

chapter 15 vs7 thru 10.

"the gray haired are on our side"

and the city of teman is referred to in the bible a couple of times as being a place renown for wisdom and learing

[webbguy4]

the reason the satan wanted to test Job and the reason God chose Job to be tested is because he was the best man on earth at the time. the satan was quite specific in saying Job only served God for the benefits God gave him. What I see going on here is a test of the first commandment before Moses even brought it down from the mountain.
the satan was saying there was no love for God, that love was irrelevent. The best man on earth God gave over to the satan to prove this wasn't true.

As for Job's laments being evidence for speaking evil about God... Are you really going to claim that life is fair? that bad things don't happen to people that don't deserve them?
have you read any of the book of lamentations?, any of the psalms of lament?