Coffee Break
Isn't the whole book of Job about Job's salvation? About whether Job's soul would belong to Satan, or God?
The question of how one was saved in the Old Testament comes into play. For my part I would say it was the same in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament. We all have to put on God's righteousness. We have to be clothed in God's righteousness. After Job repented he lived another full life without comment, other than his daughters where the most beautiful in the land.
Citizen
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No, the book of Job is not about Job's salvation, it is about yours and mine and the whole of human kind.
Life is not fair (why do I have to keep repeating the obvious) God is fair, omnipotent and loving. Resolving this contradiction is what the book of Job is about.
"without comment" hmmm, i think the naming of Job's daughters while passing on his sons and giving them an inheritance in defiance of the prevalent custom is a comment. saying that he died "full of years" ie: content is a comment
Coffee Break
[QUOTE]It is about yours and my salvation only as it relates to Job's.Originally Posted by webbguy4
To say life is unfair is to say God is unjust.Life is not fair (why do I have to keep repeating the obvious) God is fair, omnipotent and loving. Resolving this contradiction is what the book of Job is about.
True, and this type of examination is needed throughout the whole book of Job."without comment" hmmm, i think the naming of Job's daughters while passing on his sons and giving them an inheritance in defiance of the prevalent custom is a comment. saying that he died "full of years" ie: content is a comment.
Citizen
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over and over again as I review this thread I read the same arguments used by Eliphaz and friends about how and why Job deserved his trials. This is why you read about christians today saying ludicrous things about New Orleans or Japan or any victims of disaster that befall people on this world. Even if New Orleans was punished by God as a christian it is NOT your job to say it. Your job is be the the friend that Job described but never had, someone to stand with the afflicted, plead on their behalf and beg God's mercy. Do not cling to the failed notions, condemned by God in the book of Job and by Jesus in his teachings that people only suffer what they deserve.
Eliphaz was a spokesman for envy, not God.
Citizen
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"to say that life is unfair is to say God is unjust"
sigh, my fingers just got very tired at the idea of posting all the ways life is not fair. good people, faithful christians are being slaughtered almost every day in Sudan. Can you tell them life is fair?
in schools everyday, sweet gentle children whose only crime is having some form of social ineptitude that makes them different are tortured mercilessly by their classmates. Can you tell them life is fair?
my aunt, run down by an old man who had no business being behind the wheel of a car. Shall I tell her children that life is fair?
Coffee Break
Does mankind deserve to die?
Coffee Break
You live in a cursed world, condemned by the disobedience of one man. Death rules because of disobedience. God made a way of escape. If your hope is in this world alone, then your life is hopeless. The flesh of all men is condemned, it is the spirit that is quickened and made alive. We need not fear death of the flesh, we only need to fear the death of both body and soul.
Citizen
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"does mankind deserve to die?"
obviously you can say we are all corrupt and vile before the perfect judgement of God, so yes death is what we deserve. yet we are no more than what we were born to be. we are created by God as we are. If we are not fit to be his it is within his right to say we are unworthy and he can withdraw the clay he formed us from.
but you know what, death is not the worse that can happen to you , not by a long shot. You cannot reasonably claim that just because we are born with inherit flaws we deserve the hellish torments the world has to offer.
Citizen
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you didn't address any of my questions
Do you tell someone suffering grief, like the orphaned children who escaped as their village was slaughtered by moslems or my aunt's children whose mother was killed in a horrible seemingly meaning less death that "life is fair".
Coffee Break
Jesus Christ will give us the power to overcome any obstacle. Do you believe that? I can think of a fellow born without arms or legs who would testify to that, or a lady confined to a wheelchair since her eighteenth birthday that would also testify. I can think of a fellow named Stephen who was stoned to death, or a man who was spit on, beaten, and crucified.
Coffee Break
No life isn't fair, but there is a way of escape.
Citizen
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did you tell the young lady put in a wheelchair at a young age that life is fair? (please don't , rhetorical question)
Citizen
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you did say "that to say life is unfair is to say God is unjust" that's not a passing comment , it's the whole point. defend your comment. hmmm or maybe not. because i don't really think you can.
Job was a good guy, his friends said so (until they got angry), even God said so, yet the worse things possible happened to him. Job didn't deserve what happened, his wife didn't deserve what happened, his children didn't deserve what happened. Still God used all that unhappiness to create something better.
Coffee Break
The lady was Joni Erikson, and no she didn't think it was fair at the time. You would have to ask her yourself what she thinks today.
Coffee Break
[QUOTE]Life isn't fair from man's perspective, and yet it is from God's. If we are in Christ, it is fair, if we are not in Christ, then it is our fault that life seems unfair.
What if Job was on his way to the pit, and God used this to bring him back. Listen carefully to the words of Elihu.Job was a good guy, his friends said so (until they got angry), even God said so, yet the worse things possible happened to him. Job didn't deserve what happened, his wife didn't deserve what happened, his children didn't deserve what happened. Still God used all that unhappiness to create something better.
Job 33:16-24 The he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction. That he may withdraw man from his purpose and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword. He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain. So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat. His flesh is consummed away that it cannot be seen and his bones that were not seen stick out. Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers. If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness. Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.
Job was headed for the pit.
His sons obviously died because they cursed God in their hearts. Job 1:5
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