The Book of Job...explain????

[rejoice44]

[QUOTE]

Job said God did unjust things to him 'without cause' (Job 9:17), and God did not confront Job saying his accusations were false. In fact, God agreed with Job in Job 2:3 (exactly the same word)!

AndyBern greetings.

What I find is that most people look at Job with a bias. If truth matters, you must be able to examine the scripture to see what it actually says. You are saying Job was right, and that God is unjust.

First, you are saying God agreed with Job in Job 2:3, but what did God actually say? God is talking to Satan, and Job has just past his test with unbelievable integrity. Satan had told God that Job would curse God to his face if he destroyed his possessions, his children being a part of his possessions. Have you considered what Satan's cause was for inciting God against Job? If this wasn't the book of Job, and you were asked why does Satan attack us, you would probably say because he wants our soul. So you see the cause was Satan's, and Satan's cause was unjust because Job did not curse God to his face. God being all knowing knew that Job would pass. But what was God's cause for allowing this testing? We are not directly told, but God knew what was going to happen after the second test.

Job passed the test when it was only his children and wealth that he lost, but look at what happened after the second test when he was touched personally. If you examine the two tests you will see that the wording is identical between the two tests, with the exception of those things that were actually different. God wants us to take note of what was actually different, that is why the wording between the two tests is so identical. After the first test in Job 1:22 the bible says, "In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly". But take note of the difference in the wording after the second test. "In all this did not Job sin with his lips." It doesn't say Job didn't sin, and it doesn't say Job did not charge God foolishly. Why doesn't it? Because it wouldn't have been true. Job passed the second test by Satan's qualifications, but did Job pass God's qualifications? Did Job harbor ill-will toward God after the second test? He cursed the day he was born, said he was without hope, cursed his mother's womb, and if you remember, after the first test Job said naked came I out of my mother's womb, naked shall I return. Job said he wanted to be free from his master, because his master was not just.

Of course, there was a purpose to Job's trials. It was the only way to prove Job was a man of integrity.

Notice that after the first test God said to Satan that Job retained his integrity, but after the second test we hear no such words from God. It is my personal opinion that the book of Job is about the battle for Job's soul, after all that is what Satan wanted.

The only thing God confronted Job about was Job's demand for the answer "Why?".

Not true.

If Job were the one at fault, then it would have been Job's friends interceding for him in chapter 42 instead of the other way around. And God did not command Job to offer a sacrifice for his sin.

God was giving Job his wish. Job had said, "O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth with his neighbor." There is nothing to indicate that the three friends where any better or any worse than Job. Elihu had called all four of them wicked. That is the condition of the natural man who knows not God. It wasn't until Job repented, that Job's condition was better than theirs, for they were still unregenerate.

[rejoice44]

The only thing God confronted Job about was Job's demand for the answer "Why?".

God answered "why". God answered why when God sent Elihu at Job's request. Elihu told Job why he was suffering in chapter 33. Elihu said it was to keep pride from him, and to keep his soul from the pit. God asked Job if he was going to keep the king over the children of pride for a servant forever. Job 41:4 and 41:34.

[AndyBern]

Where sin is involved, repentance by itself is not enough to make oneself right before God. A sacrifice must be offered. If Job were worse or no better than his friends, then God would have commanded Job to offer a sacrifice for his sin as well.

Even though God spoke hard words to Job (as in 38:2 and 40:2,8), He never outright accused Job of sin like He did the friends (i.e. He didn't say things like "I am angry with you, Job", "You have sinned", or "You have spoken wickedly"). He spoke only of the foolishness of a finite man calling infinite God to account for His actions. I think you are confusing chastisement with anger.

[rejoice44]

Where sin is involved, repentance by itself is not enough to make oneself right before God. A sacrifice must be offered. If Job were worse or no better than his friends, then God would have commanded Job to offer a sacrifice for his sin as well.

God couldn’t ask from Job something Job didn’t have. Job’s animals, and sons and daughters were already sacrificed, and yet Job’s sins had not been forgiven. (Job 7:21)

David learned that God didn’t desire an animal sacrifice.

Psalm 51:16-17 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Job’s sacrifice came when Job repented, and his heart reproached him. (Job 27:6)

Even though God spoke hard words to Job (as in 38:2 and 40:2,8), He never outright accused Job of sin like He did the friends (i.e. He didn't say things like "I am angry with you, Job", "You have sinned", or "You have spoken wickedly"). He spoke only of the foolishness of a finite man calling infinite God to account for His actions. I think you are confusing chastisement with anger.

I think you would agree that all four were accepted in the end. So please explain how God was harder on the three friends, then God was on Job.

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

[AndyBern]

I didn't say God was harder on the three friends. For one thing, this wasn't their time of testing. The three were accepted because of righteous Job (Ezekiel 14:14,20) interceding for them. (I'm not saying Job was righteous in an absolute sense, but he was a type of Christ in many ways. Parts of Isaiah 53 are also descriptive of him, especially vs. 3 and last half of verse 4.)

Job did not curse God. Instead he cursed himself (Job 3). Even in his distress, he desired that God take his life rather than curse God (Job 6:8-10). James 5:11 says Job endured the trial - he didn't fail.

[rejoice44]

I didn't say God was harder on the three friends. For one thing, this wasn't their time of testing. The three were accepted because of righteous Job (Ezekiel 14:14,20) interceding for them.

Ezekiel 14:14-20 says just the opposite of what you are saying. Job couldn't even intercede for his own sons. Job got to pray for his friends because Job said, "O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!" Job 16:21.

(I'm not saying Job was righteous in an absolute sense, but he was a type of Christ in many ways. Parts of Isaiah 53 are also descriptive of him, especially vs. 3 and last half of verse 4.)

Job was not like Christ. Job was an unforgiven sinner(Job 7:21), and whom God had to correct because of his own sins, not because of someone else's sins. Job bore his own sins. God asked Job if he was going to take Satan for a servant for ever, and that doesn't sound like my Lord.

The verses in Isaiah that match up with Job are found in Isaiah 45:9-10 "Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Woe unto him that saith unto his father, what begettest thou? or to the woman, what hast thou brought forth?"

Job 2:8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal: and he sat down among the ashes. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, there is a man child conceived. Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?

Then look at Isaiah 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliever his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?

God said to Job, "Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee."

Job did not curse God. Instead he cursed himself (Job 3). Even in his distress, he desired that God take his life rather than curse God (Job 6:8-10). James 5:11 says Job endured the trial - he didn't fail.

In Job 1:11 the Hebrew words that are interpreted as curse are "barak" and "lo" which means to bless not. Job did not bless God after the second test.

Isaiah 8:21-22 "And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish and they shall be driven to darkness." I realize this refers to Israel, but we see the cup of wrath being passed to the daughter of Edom in the land of Uz in Lamentations 4:21. Job was driven to darkness.

Job 19:8 He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths.

When you see so many parallel paths between Israel and Job you can't but wonder if Job doesn't represent the family of Esau. When you read in Romans that the Jews had a zeal for God, but without knowledge, and that Israel followed after righteousness of the law, but it was not by faith, you can't but help to see the parallel in Job.

[webbguy4]

God said to the satan regards Job , " you caused me to destroy him without cause." we have it from the highest possible authority that the sufferings of Job were unjust.

Consider the context. Up until Job's tribulations there was no prophecy of resurrection. what was made clear to Job is that life is not fair. And God gave to Job the task of reasoning out how to reconcile a merciful loving omnipotent God with the harsh reality of life on earth. And if you follow Job's reasoning as it progresses through his arguments you find this is what he accomplished. a redeemer to buy him out of bondage, an umpire who can restrain the judgement of God and the promise of a future that can transcend every possible suffering a human can know in his mortal life. Elihu was not so empowered, he cannot restrain God, he cannot redeem anyone from hell, he cannot offer a transcendent future.

Jesus is the only possible intermediary. The only possible answer to Job's prayer.

If you argue that Job only received what was fair, then you are in the company of Eliphaz and friends, Used by the satan, condemned by "blameless" Job and rebuked by God himself.

[rejoice44]

God said to the satan regards Job , " you caused me to destroy him without cause." we have it from the highest possible authority that the sufferings of Job were unjust.

It was Satan’s cause that was unjust, and this statement is only made after the first test. This statement is not made after the second test.

Satan’s cause was that Job would not bless God to his face, but Job did bless God.

God’s cause was for the testing was to keep pride from Job, and to keep his soul from the pit. (Job 33:12-33)

Consider the context. Up until Job's tribulations there was no prophecy of resurrection.

I don’t agree with this statement at all. Job was aware of a resurrection before any of his tribulations.(Job 19:25) Job didn’t understand what he was saying because it was to wonderful for him.(Job 42:3)

Job said, “With the ancient is wisdom, and in length of days understanding.”(Job 12:12) Consider that James Ussher viewed Job as being concurrent with Joseph. (James Ussher’s, “Annals of the World”.) We know that there was definitely a prophecy of resurrection at that time of Joseph. In Genesis 28:13 God says to Jacob that he(God) is the Lord God of Abraham, and we know that Abraham was dead when God spoke these words to Jacob. Therefore this is a prophecy of the resurrection, since God is not the God of the dead. Having said this, I do not agree with James Ussher. I believe that Job is much latter than Joseph. Latter than Daniel.

Regardless of the date of Job there had been few generations pass, from Adam to Jacob.

Lamech was 55 years old when Adam died. Shem was somewhere between 92 and 95 years old when Lamech died. Jacob was 51 years old when Shem died. That is a span of only three generations for information to pass. What was told to Enoch by God that he shared? What was told Adam by God that is not recorded? How little we know, and yet we claim to know everything.

what was made clear to Job is that life is not fair.

Life is not fair, or God is not fair, or is it both? I happened to believe life is fair, because God is just.

And God gave to Job the task of reasoning out how to reconcile a merciful loving omnipotent God with the harsh reality of life on earth.

What God gave to Job was visions in the night that Job didn’t heed to. God gave Job deep pain so that he could consider where he was heading. Would Job take Satan for a servant for ever? As it worked out Job repented, because his heart reproached him of his sin of pride.

And if you follow Job's reasoning as it progresses through his arguments you find this is what he accomplished. a redeemer to buy him out of bondage, an umpire who can restrain the judgement of God and the promise of a future that can transcend every possible suffering a human can know in his mortal life.

Don’t we all accomplish the same thing when we repent, and put on God’s righteousness.

Elihu was not so empowered, he cannot restrain God, he cannot redeem anyone from hell, he cannot offer a transcendent future.

Job didn’t receive everything he asks for. Job asked for a man made of clay, that wouldn’t scare him. You can’t have someone that wouldn’t scare Job and still be able to lay his hand on God. That was not possible, Job had to be satisfied with someone who wouldn’t scare him.

Jesus is the only possible intermediary. The only possible answer to Job's prayer.

We both agree on that.

If you argue that Job only received what was fair, then you are in the company of Eliphaz and friends, Used by the satan, condemned by "blameless" Job and rebuked by God himself.

Job received not only what was fair, but what was the best thing for him. It wouldn’t have been good for Job to take Satan for a servant forever.

[mjmselim]

Been sick with the flu turned into pneumonia now two weeks; God be thanked for healing
mercy and loving grace. Earlier today read the posts of the last two weeks, up to #323. I
was about to make brief reply as to the "these ten times", but being hindered gave me
more time to consider others' opinion and trace the view that favors that Job's expression
was not literal. What I discovered among the commentators and expositors of the Book of
Job was very disheartening and a lot of imagination.

1. These Ten Times are in Hebrew (zeh eser p'amim). Zeh is this or these in usage as
seen in Gesenius and the versions. Eser, with Ayin, is ten or tenth or tithe, set of ten; it is
not Yodh, numeral ten, as in the tenth letter of the Hebrew Alphabet. P'amim, from Paam,
with Ayin, is said to mean literally "beat, foot, anvil", thus poetically the hoof-strokes of a
beast, then its striking as in horses, then with man striking an anvil with a hammer, or
hammering. The speeches were like strikes or blows. This tenth blow, or these ten
strikes; each speech was a time or strike as in baseball.

2. I will concede that the Ten Times that I listed of the 5 speeches of the Friends and
Job's 5 rebuttals is defective, and I should have omitted Job's initial Lament and
substituted then Tenth Blow, as in fighting, with chapter 19 as proper to the structure.

3. I reject the idea that we have hints of portions not recorded, for even if the original
drama or epic consisted of 100 more unrecorded speeches that has nothing to do with
inspiration and transmission of scripture--which cannot be broken.

4. I further reject the interpretation that it is mere generalize number and not to be taken
literal. For though I have no bias against a general expression or a non-literal literary
device we should not fall back to such an easy and trivial hermeneutical tool that lends
itself to unbelief and imagination. So here is its history; and it appears Saadiah-Gaon
established this view and followed by most bever since.

Keil & Delitzsch: In Job19:3 Job establishes his How long? Ten times is not to be taken
strictly (Saad.), but it is a round number; ten, from being the number of the fingers on the
human hand, is the number of human possibility, and from its position at the end of the
row of numbers (in the decimal system) is the number of that which is perfected (vid.,
Genesis, S. 640f.); as not only the Sanskrit daçan is traceable to the radical notion “to
seize, embrace,” but also the Semitic (eser) is traceable to the radical notion “to bind,
gather together” (cogn. qshr). They have already exhausted what is possible in
reproaches, they have done their utmost. Renan, in accordance with the Hebr.
expression, transl.: Voilà (zeh, as e.g., Gen_27:36) la dixième fois que vous m'insultez.
((the tenth time you insult me)).

Gill: Referring not to ten sections or paragraphs, in which they had done it, as Jarchi; or to
the five speeches his friends, in which their reproaches were doubled; or to Job's words,
and their answer, as Saadiah; for it does not denote an exact number of their reproaches,
which Job was not so careful to count; but it signifies that he had been many times
reproached by them; so Aben Ezra, and in which sense the phrase is often used...

Clarke: These ten times - The exact arithmetical number is not to be regarded; ten times
being put for many times, as we have already seen. See particularly the note on Gen_31:7
(note)....... Here aristas, which signifies ears of corn, is put for harvest, harvest for
autumn, and autumn for years. After all, it is most natural to suppose that Jacob uses the
word ten times for an indefinite number, which we might safely translate frequently; and
that it means an indefinite number in other parts of the sacred writings, is evident from
Lev_26:26 : Ten women shall bake your bread in one oven. Ecc_7:19 : Wisdom
strengtheneth the wise more than Ten mighty men the city. Num_14:22 : Because all
these men have tempted me now these Ten times. Job_19:3 : These Ten times have ye
reproached me. Zec_8:23 : In those days - Ten men shall take hold of the skirt of him that
is a Jew. Rev_2:10 : Ye shall have tribulation Ten days.

Barnes: These ten times - Many times; the word “ten” being used as we often say, “ten a
dozen” or “twenty,” to denote many; see Gen 31:7, “And your father hath changed my
wages “ten times.” Lev_26:26, “and when I have broken your staff of bread, “ten women”
shall bake your bread, in one oven;” compare Num 14:22; Neh 4:6.

Bush:7. Your father hath deceived me. Heb. bnn hethel. This word, in Judg. 16.10, is
rendered mocked; in Ex. 8. 29, deal deceitfully, and by the Chal. is here rendered hath lied
unto me. It properly denotes all these. IT Changed my wages ten times. That is, many
times ; a definite number for an indefinite, according to a common usage of the original.
Thus, Num.14.22. ' Ye have tempted me these ten times,' i. e. many times. Job 19. 3, *
These ten times have ye reproached me,' i. e. in repeated instances ; again and again. In
like manner, Lev. 26. 26, ' Ten women shall bake your bread in one oven.' Eccl. 7. 19,
'Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men the city.' Zech. 8. 23,' In those
days—ten men shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew. Rev. 2. 10. 'Ye shall have
tribulation ten days.'

(Berechiah. Hirsch Cambridge mss.Berechiah ben Natronai (ha-Nakdan)): These ten
times. Some thought that the number ten is to be taken literally, because there were thus
far, between him and his friends, from the first speech to this, ten speeches. But this is
wrong. The figure is here as in Numb. (xiv. 22): they have tempted me these ten times,
meaning, many times. Or, [ten is mentioned], because the numeration ends there, and
after ten the figures must be repeated.

[rejoice44]

Been sick with the flu turned into pneumonia now two weeks; God be thanked for healing
mercy and loving grace. Earlier today read the posts of the last two weeks, up to #323. I
was about to make brief reply as to the "these ten times", but being hindered gave me
more time to consider others' opinion and trace the view that favors that Job's expression
was not literal. What I discovered among the commentators and expositors of the Book of
Job was very disheartening and a lot of imagination.--


--(Berechiah. Hirsch Cambridge mss.Berechiah ben Natronai (ha-Nakdan)): These ten
times. Some thought that the number ten is to be taken literally, because there were thus
far, between him and his friends, from the first speech to this, ten speeches. But this is
wrong. The figure is here as in Numb. (xiv. 22): they have tempted me these ten times,
meaning, many times. Or, [ten is mentioned], because the numeration ends there, and
after ten the figures must be repeated.

mjmselim greetings, sorry to hear you had pneumonia, glad to hear you are over it.

I would suggest that Job's statement is literal. Whether it is true or not is another subject. To Job it might have seemed like ten times, but then Job also thought God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.

It is also possible that all of the conversations were not recorded, nor would it be necessary that it was, but then there appears to be no break in the speech which would allow for such conversation.

We know that all the conversation between Job and his wife was not recorded when we find in Job 19:17 that Job had a conversation with his wife, and that the details of that conversation are not recorded.

It is inconsequential to the story whether it be 5 times, or ten times. It was I that first mentioned the number of times, and my point was merely that we do not know all the details. When a true story is told, often many details are left obscured.

[webbguy4]

God never charged Job with the sin of pride or self righteousness, Job never confessed to any such sin.

Job got the best thing for him is not consistent with what Job got was fair. None of us deserves the best thing for us.

[rejoice44]

God never charged Job with the sin of pride or self righteousness, Job never confessed to any such sin.

Yes God charged Job with the sin of pride. God charged Job with wanting to take the king over the children of pride for a servant forever. You need to read chapter 41 over, especially verse 4 and 34.

Job did confess. Remember when Job said, "My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live." Well Job's heart did reproach him. Remember that Job said, "I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

[mjmselim]

Perhaps I could go through all words in all the speeches between Job and his companions to
discover the hinges that each turned on: I do not hold any special value on the number of
recorded speeches since the Holy Spirit has given plenty to work with. I will say that the poetic
language becomes, as in the Psalms, more integral to the poem and parable.

Job and his three Friends.

1. Job 3: Job's curses his day: perish my birth and conception; be it disregarded by God
(Eloah); be it dark as death; be it never recorded; be it without joy; be it cursed by mourners;
be it endless night. Why? It did not prevent my birth nor hid my sorrow. Why died I not at
birth? Why the knees did not prevent me? Why did not the breast prevent my nursing
(shaddaim from shad, the breast, as in Shaddai the nursing God of the patriarchs)? I would
have rested in death with rulers desolate, or princes once rich; or aborted before birth, or still-
born infants. In death the wicked cease, the weary rest, prisoners sleep quietly, all are equal
without rank. Why sunshine to the miserable, life to bittered soul. They desire death, and dig
for it has treasures; rejoice when the find the grave; why to me hidden and God (Eloah)
hedged. My greatest fear has happened to me. I was not safely resting quietly yet trouble
came.

(Here Job questions his calamity, regrets his life; acknowledges God's protection and
blessing; wishes for death; confesses his great fear.)

2. Job 4: Eliphaz the Temanite answered: to try talking with you grieve you? but how can one
refrain? you instructed many, and strengthened the weak; your words held the fallen, and
strengthened the feeble. Now it is upon you and you faint, it touches you and troubles you. It is
not your fear, confidence, hope, uprightness (I read it as statement thrown at Job). Has the
innocent ever perished or the righteous cut off? I see that they who plow iniquity and sow
wickedness reap the same. God (Eloah) blows, they perish, His breath consumes them; the
lion's roar and voice and teeth are broken; old lion perishes without prey; stout lion's whelps
scattered. Something secretly came to me in my ears; thoughts in night visions in deep sleep;
fear (nightmares), trembling, my bones shook; and spirit upon my face, my hair stood, it stood
still. its form un-discerned, image before my eyes, silent, and voiced: Shall the mortal (enosh)
be more just than God (Eloah), the young (geber) purer than God (Eloah)? He trusts not
servants, His angels He charges with folly; much less the dwellers in clay houses, with dust
foundation, and crushed by moth; destroyed daily, perish without regard; their excellence
vanish, they die without wisdom. Job 5: Is there any that will answer your call, to which saints
will you turn? Wrath kills the foolish, envy slays the silly. I've seen the foolish taking root but I
cursed his habitation; his children without safety, crushed in the gate, none to deliver; the
hungry eats their harvest, from thorns, and robbers swallows their substance. The dust
produces not affliction, the ground yields not trouble, yet man (adam) is born to trouble as
sparks fly up. I seek God (Eloah), to God (Elohim) I commit my cause. Who does great
unsearchable marvelous innumerable things; Who rains upon earth, waters the fields; exalts
the low, mourners exalted to safety; He disappoints the crafty to thwart the performance and
enterprise; He takes the wise in their craftiness; counsel of the froward carried headlong. They
meet darkness in daytime, grope at noon as in night. He saves the poor from sword and
mouths and hands of the mighty. The poor has hope and iniquity stops her mouth. Happy is
the man God (Eloah) corrects; despise not Shaddai's chastening; He makes sore and binds
up; He wounds and makes whole; He delivers in six troubles, in seven no evil touches you; He
redeems from death in famine, and in war from sword; you'll be hid from scourge of tongue,
you'll not fear coming destruction. You'll laugh at destruction and famine, fearing not the
beasts of the earth; you'll be in league with stones of the field, and the beasts be at peace;
your tabernacle in peace, visiting your habitation without sin. Your seed will be great, your
offspring as grass of earth; you will come to grave in full age. like a shock of corn in due
season. We have searched, it is so, hear for your own good.

( Eliphaz says Job reaps what is sowed and God ijudges man's evil doings and secret sins;
even a lion, like rulers and powerful men, comes to nothing in judgment; in my dreams I came
to understand the mortal man is not more just than God our maker, for He is holy and
righteous above man and angels. The foolish ignore God to their ruin; God catches the clever;
He helps the poor and helpless. Turn to him and He'll help you and keep you safe and bless
you. We have searched and this is our verdict heed for your own good.)

[rejoice44]

Perhaps I could go through all words in all the speeches between Job and his companions to
discover the hinges that each turned on: I do not hold any special value on the number of
recorded speeches since the Holy Spirit has given plenty to work with. I will say that the poetic
language becomes, as in the Psalms, more integral to the poem and parable.

Job and his three Friends.

1. Job 3: Job's curses his day: perish my birth and conception; be it disregarded by God
(Eloah); be it dark as death; be it never recorded; be it without joy; be it cursed by mourners;
be it endless night. Why? It did not prevent my birth nor hid my sorrow. Why died I not at
birth? Why the knees did not prevent me? Why did not the breast prevent my nursing
(shaddaim from shad, the breast, as in Shaddai the nursing God of the patriarchs)? I would
have rested in death with rulers desolate, or princes once rich; or aborted before birth, or still-
born infants. In death the wicked cease, the weary rest, prisoners sleep quietly, all are equal
without rank. Why sunshine to the miserable, life to bittered soul. They desire death, and dig
for it has treasures; rejoice when the find the grave; why to me hidden and God (Eloah)
hedged. My greatest fear has happened to me. I was not safely resting quietly yet trouble
came.

(Here Job questions his calamity, regrets his life; acknowledges God's protection and
blessing; wishes for death; confesses his great fear.)

You have skipped over one of the most important parts of chapter three.

“And the servant is free from his master” (Job 3:19)

The statement that “Job is God’s servant” is one of the most touted parts of this book, and when Job states he wants to be “free from his master” it is quite significant.

There are two specific types of servants, the hired servant, and the bond servant.

The hired servant works for pay and is free from his master at the end of the contract.

The bond servant belongs to the master forever.

The rules for servants are given in Exodus and Leviticus. We know that Job isn’t a descendant of Jacob, but that does not mean the rules given by God for servants do not apply to Job. After all, they are God’s rules, and Job is God’s servant.

Job claimed to be a hired servant. We find Job’s claim to be a hired servant not only here in Job 3:19, but also in Job 7:1-3 and Job 14:6.

Doe it matter what kind of a servant Job was? If Job was a hired servant he didn’t belong to God. The hireling could not partake of the Passover Lamb. (Exodus 12:45 and Leviticus 22:10) This is significant in that if you don’t take of the Passover Lamb you have no salvation. Job was unsaved.

A hired servant can become a bond servant by saying I love my master, I will serve him forever. (Exodus 21:5) We know Job didn’t want to become a bond servant, because he said he wanted to be free from his master.


Why Job was not saved in the beginning of this book.

1. Job was a hireling. (Job 3:19, 7:1-3, 14:6.)

2. Job was unforgiven. (Job 7:21)

3. Job was without hope. (Job 7:6, 14:19)

4. Job didn’t know God, or how to find God. (Job 9:24, 23:3)

Compare Job with Stephen, or with Paul after Paul was saved. Those that are saved have hope, are forgiven, and know God.

[mjmselim]

1. You have skipped over one of the most important parts of chapter three. “And the servant is free from his master” (Job 3:19)

( I believe I hid it in this summary: "In death the wicked cease, the weary rest, prisoners sleep quietly, all are equal without rank.")

2. The rules for servants are given in Exodus and Leviticus. We know that Job isn’t a descendant of Jacob, but that does not mean the rules given by God for servants do not apply to Job. After all, they are God’s rules, and Job is God’s servant.

( I have not conceded to the post-Mosaic system as to Job's context. We do not Job's ancestry clearly. What I believe is not what I can prove, so I make no premise. One covenant differs from another covenant, dispensation from each other, old from new....)

3. Does it matter what kind of a servant Job was? If Job was a hired servant he didn’t belong to God. The hireling could not partake of the
Passover Lamb. (Exodus 12:45 and Leviticus 22:10) This is significant in that if you don’t take of the Passover Lamb you have no salvation. Job was unsaved.

(Job was a servant by creation not calling. If we say vocation it was the times of the Gentiles or the Sons of Noah. I do not mix things that differ.)

4. A hired servant can become a bond servant by saying I love my master, I will serve him forever. (Exodus 21:5) We know Job didn’t want to become a bond servant, because he said he wanted to be free from his master.

(I do not find Job under the law revealed as at Sinai; God's natural law existed then as now, as Paul teaches. The poetic story is not judicial but spiritual, revealing the Enemy, the Accuser, the Slanderer, Provoker, Liar, Snake, at work as God foretold to Adam and Eve in the Garden. Should I put Job under Moses then I would lose many nights of sleep to explain the Book of Job.)

I still intend tp proceed in digest of the dialogues, unless requested to desist.