The Book of Job...explain????

[Phish]

Good Stuff Servant

[Servant89]

Good Stuff Servant

Thank you and praised be our Lord God.

God is more interested in us trusting him no matter what circumstance. God wants us to actually believe that...

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Ps 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God:

Lk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Job got the point later ...

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.


Shalom

[Nobunaga]

I'll just throw this out there. I have been slowly reading through the on-line version of this book. It is a very interesting read, but I'm only part way through it so have no conclusions. I agree with the main point of the book being a theodicy. The entire book is available here.
http://www.bookofjob.org/

There is also a link to a summary:
http://www.bookofjob.org/quick%20summary2.htm

I read the review Teddy, your right pretty much sounds like the same book. Good spot.

I do have huge reservations with one of the conclusions though, but i'm working through it personally at the moment in my own studies. These questions do have to be asked, but i think one of the conclusions is not supported enough by scripture to be stated authoritatively (just my opinion). I think you know what i'm talking about

What are your thoughts ?

[spookytooth]

I have been discussing this among friends and we have several different views about what the meaning behind the story is.

??????
anyone care to try and explain this book and the meaning.

Here is the question that was posed to me.

Why would God have to prove anything to Satan about one of his righteous people in the way he did it?

I need to study up on this and maybe get a few words from some here about this, because the topic will come up again and I would like to present a response with more depth next time.

My response was the basic.
satan thought without Gods protection and blessings Job would turn from God. God knew Job would not, so he allowed satan to bring heartache on Job. Although Job did ask why he never cursed God, and praised God throughout the ordeal. Job endured and was restored with more blessings in the end. Bad things do happen to the righteous and we can't explain this mystery of God with our human brain.

This is about all I had, which did not seem to satisfy

.....help

He doesn't, the lesson is to the reader. The lesson is; ' Don't think yourself superior to God , without Him you are nothing '.

[Cliff H]

I have asked myself this question:

What did Job's children do to deserve death ?

[rejoice44]

I have asked myself this question:

What did Job's children do to deserve death ?

Probably cursed God in their hearts. Job thought that was a possibility, for it was the reason he made a sacrifice for them. Job 1:5

[Nobunaga]

I have asked myself this question:

What did Job's children do to deserve death ?

This question could be asked Ad infinitum about things we see in our own lives and in the news today, this is the major issue in the book. Tough question to answer probably the hardest one out there.

[EarlyCall]

I have been discussing this among friends and we have several different views about what the meaning behind the story is.

??????
anyone care to try and explain this book and the meaning.

Here is the question that was posed to me.

Why would God have to prove anything to Satan about one of his righteous people in the way he did it?

I need to study up on this and maybe get a few words from some here about this, because the topic will come up again and I would like to present a response with more depth next time.

My response was the basic.
satan thought without Gods protection and blessings Job would turn from God. God knew Job would not, so he allowed satan to bring heartache on Job. Although Job did ask why he never cursed God, and praised God throughout the ordeal. Job endured and was restored with more blessings in the end. Bad things do happen to the righteous and we can't explain this mystery of God with our human brain.

This is about all I had, which did not seem to satisfy

.....help

If we start with three assumptions:

1) God knows the future
2) satan knows God knows the future
3) satan is intelligent beyond anything man can grasp (not beyond God, just beyond man and man's thinking they can guess how intelligent satan is)

then the logical conclusion that satan really thought that he could get Job to sin would also require that satan thought God either didn't know if Job would sin or that satan quite simply could not help himself, due to his nature and he took a sucker's bet.

In other words, working it out logically, it would be something along these lines:

1) God brings up Job to satan and speaks well of him
2) satan says, well, he'd sin if you didn't do this or that for him
3) God says, ok, have at him
4) satan thinks to himself, but God knows the future, so he knows how this will turn out. What's up? What's He got in mind? What's His plan? (if I can think of these questions does anyone think satan could not or would not?)
5) satan gives it a shot and comes up short, so he says to God, well, you are still protecting him.
6) God says, right, you have more leeway, go at him
7) satan thinks, well, God was right the first time, and yea, He knows the future, but whatever He has up His sleeve, well, I don't know, but, well, whatever, I'm going to try anyway

I wondered about this and came to the only logical conclusion I could think of (that would be my limit you see - what I could think of), and it seemed to me that satan had to know, based on the assumptions I listed above, that God would not lose this, therefore, due to the very nature of satan, he could not refuse to try, and let's not forget, win or lose, satan has no problem torturing a man of God.

I wonder if most people think that the moral of the story is that Job was faithful, did not sin and God rewarded him by restoring twice what he had originally. Also, note the difference between the children he had and lost and the children he ended up with!!

But that is not the moral of the story. It is not the story. In short, in the end God blessed Job most of all by speaking to him and revealing Himself to Job in a way that likely at that time no one else in all the world was privileged to know (we read about it now). But most of all, what Job learned was that God is God, He does as He pleases and he is not required to answer to anyone.

Now consider that message for us compared to the supposed message that if we are faithful God will reward us in this lifetime.

If we consider rather that God is God, He does as He pleases and He is not obligated to answer to anyone - why, how, what or anything else, then we begin to understand better, as Job finally did, just how great this God really is and how small we really are. How fantastic then is it that such a God would even consider us? It is a great help, or can be if we let it, in our keeping a proper perspective in life when we go through difficult times.

So, in the end, satan was merely being manipulated by God and it was for our benefit. Job had to pay a dear price for us, but then what people should understand is that God is more than willing and will sacrifice anyone of us for His glory and plan for mankind as a whole. And if in this someone thinks otherwise, they might ask why God would not do so when He was not only willing but did sacrifice His very own Son. Are any one of us better than the Son of God?

So this is what Job is about to me. It's one of my favorite books. Every time I read it, I learn something new it seems.

[LankyLee]

If we start with three assumptions:

1) God knows the future
2) satan knows God knows the future
3) satan is intelligent beyond anything man can grasp (not beyond God, just beyond man and man's thinking they can guess how intelligent satan is)

then the logical conclusion that satan really thought that he could get Job to sin would also require that satan thought God either didn't know if Job would sin or that satan quite simply could not help himself, due to his nature and he took a sucker's bet.

In other words, working it out logically, it would be something along these lines:

1) God brings up Job to satan and speaks well of him
2) satan says, well, he'd sin if you didn't do this or that for him
3) God says, ok, have at him
4) satan thinks to himself, but God knows the future, so he knows how this will turn out. What's up? What's He got in mind? What's His plan? (if I can think of these questions does anyone think satan could not or would not?)
5) satan gives it a shot and comes up short, so he says to God, well, you are still protecting him.
6) God says, right, you have more leeway, go at him
7) satan thinks, well, God was right the first time, and yea, He knows the future, but whatever He has up His sleeve, well, I don't know, but, well, whatever, I'm going to try anyway

I wondered about this and came to the only logical conclusion I could think of (that would be my limit you see - what I could think of), and it seemed to me that satan had to know, based on the assumptions I listed above, that God would not lose this, therefore, due to the very nature of satan, he could not refuse to try, and let's not forget, win or lose, satan has no problem torturing a man of God.

I wonder if most people think that the moral of the story is that Job was faithful, did not sin and God rewarded him by restoring twice what he had originally. Also, note the difference between the children he had and lost and the children he ended up with!!

But that is not the moral of the story. It is not the story. In short, in the end God blessed Job most of all by speaking to him and revealing Himself to Job in a way that likely at that time no one else in all the world was privileged to know (we read about it now). But most of all, what Job learned was that God is God, He does as He pleases and he is not required to answer to anyone.

Now consider that message for us compared to the supposed message that if we are faithful God will reward us in this lifetime.

If we consider rather that God is God, He does as He pleases and He is not obligated to answer to anyone - why, how, what or anything else, then we begin to understand better, as Job finally did, just how great this God really is and how small we really are. How fantastic then is it that such a God would even consider us? It is a great help, or can be if we let it, in our keeping a proper perspective in life when we go through difficult times.

So, in the end, satan was merely being manipulated by God and it was for our benefit. Job had to pay a dear price for us, but then what people should understand is that God is more than willing and will sacrifice anyone of us for His glory and plan for mankind as a whole. And if in this someone thinks otherwise, they might ask why God would not do so when He was not only willing but did sacrifice His very own Son. Are any one of us better than the Son of God?

So this is what Job is about to me. It's one of my favorite books. Every time I read it, I learn something new it seems.

Wow, I got chill bumps reading this, great explanation.
This is what I believe also but I could not have put it in words quite so well.

[HisLeast]

What did Job's children do to deserve death ?

Probably cursed God in their hearts. Job thought that was a possibility, for it was the reason he made a sacrifice for them. Job 1:5

I propose that it was exactly this kind of guessing that got Job's friends into trouble with God. They were fully convinced that the only reason life can get miserable is if you're sinning. Job is so upset (and rightfully so) with his friends that he calls out to God for a list of these supposed wrongs he's committed. In so doing, Job crosses the line and earns a rebuke from the Lord as well. Job 38:2 sums it up nicely: "Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?"

We don't know anything about Job's children, yet we're so certain they must have been bad kids because otherwise God wouldn't let them die. Just as Job's friends were certain that if Job really was a good guy, then God would never let anything bad happen to him.

God punished Job's friends severely. We should not play the same game.

[rejoice44]

[QUOTE]

I propose that it was exactly this kind of guessing that got Job's friends into trouble with God.

It was Job who was doing the guessing. These were Job's thoughts. How can we understand the book if we do not pay attention to what is being said?

Can you explain exactly what the friends did wrong according to actual scripture in this book?

They were fully convinced that the only reason life can get miserable is if you're sinning.

Sometimes men suffer because of God's wrath, sometimes men suffer because of God's correction, and sometimes men suffer so that God might be glorified. Why did Job suffer?

Job is so upset (and rightfully so) with his friends that he calls out to God for a list of these supposed wrongs he's committed.

This is true with the exception of that in parenthesis.

In so doing, Job crosses the line and earns a rebuke from the Lord as well.

What do you mean Job crosses the line? Can you supply the verses?

We don't know anything about Job's children, yet we're so certain they must have been bad kids because otherwise God wouldn't let them die.

I am not so certain the kids were bad. It is just that the scripture suggests that.

Just as Job's friends were certain that if Job really was a good guy, then God would never let anything bad happen to him.

We know some things happen for God's glory. (John 9:3) Job's three friends knew Job better than any one else, save God. Can you quote some verses from this book where Job's friends said something that was not true? I know of at least one verse, but could you cite some verses?

God punished Job's friends severely. We should not play the same game.

I cannot find where the three friends were punished severely, could you quote the verses?

[VerticalReality]

He doesn't, the lesson is to the reader. The lesson is; ' Don't think yourself superior to God , without Him you are nothing '.

You believe God allowed Job to go through misery simply to show him that he isn't superior to God?

If I were to take my son out in the back yard and pummel him to a bloody pulp, would people just say, "Oh, well . . . he was just showing his son that he isn't the man of the house"? Why would we think God would do the same?

[rejoice44]

If I were to take my son out in the back yard and pummel him to a bloody pulp, would people just say, "Oh, well . . . he was just showing his son that he isn't the man of the house"? Why would we think God would do the same?

It doesn't say Job is a son, but that he is a servant, and the bible clearly makes that distinction. If you were to believe Job, then Job is a hired servant. Hired servants couldn't partake of the passover. When you consider the implications of this you might consider that Job could have no part of the saviour.

[teddyv]

I cannot find where the three friends were punished severely, could you quote the verses?

Job 42:7-9 (NIV)

Epilogue
7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

They were not punished because they carried out the sacrifice to atone for not speaking the truth about God. Furthermore prayer by Job on their behalf was also required to turn the Lord's anger away.

[rejoice44]

Job 42:7-9 (NIV)
They were not punished because they carried out the sacrifice to atone for not speaking the truth about God. Furthermore prayer by Job on their behalf was also required to turn the Lord's anger away.

The point is they were not severely punished. It was Job that did all the suffering.