Good Stuff Servant
Good Stuff Servant
E ku'u lesu, ku'u Ho'ola'O'oe ke ala,A me ka 'oia'i'oA me Keolamauloa'Amene
My Jesus, My savior. You are the way, the truth and the everlasting life. Amen
God is more interested in us trusting him no matter what circumstance. God wants us to actually believe that...
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Ps 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God:
Lk 12:7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Job got the point later ...
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
I do have huge reservations with one of the conclusions though, but i'm working through it personally at the moment in my own studies. These questions do have to be asked, but i think one of the conclusions is not supported enough by scripture to be stated authoritatively (just my opinion). I think you know what i'm talking about
What are your thoughts ?
I have asked myself this question:
What did Job's children do to deserve death ?
1) God knows the future
2) satan knows God knows the future
3) satan is intelligent beyond anything man can grasp (not beyond God, just beyond man and man's thinking they can guess how intelligent satan is)
then the logical conclusion that satan really thought that he could get Job to sin would also require that satan thought God either didn't know if Job would sin or that satan quite simply could not help himself, due to his nature and he took a sucker's bet.
In other words, working it out logically, it would be something along these lines:
1) God brings up Job to satan and speaks well of him
2) satan says, well, he'd sin if you didn't do this or that for him
3) God says, ok, have at him
4) satan thinks to himself, but God knows the future, so he knows how this will turn out. What's up? What's He got in mind? What's His plan? (if I can think of these questions does anyone think satan could not or would not?)
5) satan gives it a shot and comes up short, so he says to God, well, you are still protecting him.
6) God says, right, you have more leeway, go at him
7) satan thinks, well, God was right the first time, and yea, He knows the future, but whatever He has up His sleeve, well, I don't know, but, well, whatever, I'm going to try anyway
I wondered about this and came to the only logical conclusion I could think of (that would be my limit you see - what I could think of), and it seemed to me that satan had to know, based on the assumptions I listed above, that God would not lose this, therefore, due to the very nature of satan, he could not refuse to try, and let's not forget, win or lose, satan has no problem torturing a man of God.
I wonder if most people think that the moral of the story is that Job was faithful, did not sin and God rewarded him by restoring twice what he had originally. Also, note the difference between the children he had and lost and the children he ended up with!!
But that is not the moral of the story. It is not the story. In short, in the end God blessed Job most of all by speaking to him and revealing Himself to Job in a way that likely at that time no one else in all the world was privileged to know (we read about it now). But most of all, what Job learned was that God is God, He does as He pleases and he is not required to answer to anyone.
Now consider that message for us compared to the supposed message that if we are faithful God will reward us in this lifetime.
If we consider rather that God is God, He does as He pleases and He is not obligated to answer to anyone - why, how, what or anything else, then we begin to understand better, as Job finally did, just how great this God really is and how small we really are. How fantastic then is it that such a God would even consider us? It is a great help, or can be if we let it, in our keeping a proper perspective in life when we go through difficult times.
So, in the end, satan was merely being manipulated by God and it was for our benefit. Job had to pay a dear price for us, but then what people should understand is that God is more than willing and will sacrifice anyone of us for His glory and plan for mankind as a whole. And if in this someone thinks otherwise, they might ask why God would not do so when He was not only willing but did sacrifice His very own Son. Are any one of us better than the Son of God?
So this is what Job is about to me. It's one of my favorite books. Every time I read it, I learn something new it seems.
We don't know anything about Job's children, yet we're so certain they must have been bad kids because otherwise God wouldn't let them die. Just as Job's friends were certain that if Job really was a good guy, then God would never let anything bad happen to him.
God punished Job's friends severely. We should not play the same game.
Can you explain exactly what the friends did wrong according to actual scripture in this book?
Sometimes men suffer because of God's wrath, sometimes men suffer because of God's correction, and sometimes men suffer so that God might be glorified. Why did Job suffer?They were fully convinced that the only reason life can get miserable is if you're sinning.
This is true with the exception of that in parenthesis.Job is so upset (and rightfully so) with his friends that he calls out to God for a list of these supposed wrongs he's committed.
What do you mean Job crosses the line? Can you supply the verses?In so doing, Job crosses the line and earns a rebuke from the Lord as well.
I am not so certain the kids were bad. It is just that the scripture suggests that.We don't know anything about Job's children, yet we're so certain they must have been bad kids because otherwise God wouldn't let them die.
We know some things happen for God's glory. (John 9:3) Job's three friends knew Job better than any one else, save God. Can you quote some verses from this book where Job's friends said something that was not true? I know of at least one verse, but could you cite some verses?Just as Job's friends were certain that if Job really was a good guy, then God would never let anything bad happen to him.
I cannot find where the three friends were punished severely, could you quote the verses?God punished Job's friends severely. We should not play the same game.
If I were to take my son out in the back yard and pummel him to a bloody pulp, would people just say, "Oh, well . . . he was just showing his son that he isn't the man of the house"? Why would we think God would do the same?
"What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."
-- Dr. Neil T. Anderson
They were not punished because they carried out the sacrifice to atone for not speaking the truth about God. Furthermore prayer by Job on their behalf was also required to turn the Lord's anger away.Epilogue
7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.
It is only the cynic who claims “to speak the truth” at all times and in all places to all men in the same way, but who, in fact, displays nothing but a lifeless image of the truth… He dons the halo of the fanatical devotee of truth who can make no allowance for human weaknesses; but, in fact, he is destroying the living truth between men. He wounds shame, desecrates mystery, breaks confidence, betrays the community in which he lives, and laughs arrogantly at the devastation he has wrought and at the human weakness which “cannot bear the truth”. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, in Ethics.
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