The Book of Job...explain????

[LankyLee]

I have been discussing this among friends and we have several different views about what the meaning behind the story is.

??????
anyone care to try and explain this book and the meaning.

Here is the question that was posed to me.

Why would God have to prove anything to Satan about one of his righteous people in the way he did it?

I need to study up on this and maybe get a few words from some here about this, because the topic will come up again and I would like to present a response with more depth next time.

My response was the basic.
satan thought without Gods protection and blessings Job would turn from God. God knew Job would not, so he allowed satan to bring heartache on Job. Although Job did ask why he never cursed God, and praised God throughout the ordeal. Job endured and was restored with more blessings in the end. Bad things do happen to the righteous and we can't explain this mystery of God with our human brain.

This is about all I had, which did not seem to satisfy

.....help

[VerticalReality]

The situation with Job happened because Job needed to learn and grow in his knowledge of the Lord. I do not believe God was allowing Satan to do stuff to Job in order to basically prove Satan wrong. God doesn't have to prove anything, and I certainly do not believe that God is insecure enough to be coerced into doing something because Satan was trying to push His buttons.

I think people often mistake blameless for sinless perfection or something. Job was blameless but he wasn't perfect.

[IMINXTC]

Q: Must God's people suffer?

A: Why not?

[VerticalReality]

Q: Must God's people suffer?

A: Why not?

You answered your own question with why not?

[IMINXTC]

An old addage concerning the book of Job and it's purpose.

[divaD]

The situation with Job happened because Job needed to learn and grow in his knowledge of the Lord. I do not believe God was allowing Satan to do stuff to Job in order to basically prove Satan wrong. God doesn't have to prove anything, and I certainly do not believe that God is insecure enough to be coerced into doing something because Satan was trying to push His buttons.

I think people often mistake blameless for sinless perfection or something. Job was blameless but he wasn't perfect.

But wasn't it satan's idea in the first place? Had not satan brought up the fact that God had a hedge around Job, etc, would there have even been any need on God's part to allow satan to do certain things?

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face

Had not satan challenged, what would have motivated God to allow satan to do certain things to Job and his house? Do you think if satan wouldn't have made a single mention of anything here, that God would still have said..you know what, satan? Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. That doesn't even make sense nor agrees with the context, if we take satan's challenge out of the picture.

[teddyv]

I'll just throw this out there. I have been slowly reading through the on-line version of this book. It is a very interesting read, but I'm only part way through it so have no conclusions. I agree with the main point of the book being a theodicy. The entire book is available here.
http://www.bookofjob.org/

There is also a link to a summary:
http://www.bookofjob.org/quick%20summary2.htm

[Nobunaga]

I'll just throw this out there. I have been slowly reading through the on-line version of this book. It is a very interesting read, but I'm only part way through it so have no conclusions. I agree with the main point of the book being a theodicy. The entire book is available here.
http://www.bookofjob.org/

There is also a link to a summary:
http://www.bookofjob.org/quick%20summary2.htm

I read the review Teddy, your right pretty much sounds like the same book. Good spot.

I do have huge reservations with one of the conclusions though, but i'm working through it personally at the moment in my own studies. These questions do have to be asked, but i think one of the conclusions is not supported enough by scripture to be stated authoritatively (just my opinion). I think you know what i'm talking about

What are your thoughts ?

[VerticalReality]

But wasn't it satan's idea in the first place? Had not satan brought up the fact that God had a hedge around Job, etc, would there have even been any need on God's part to allow satan to do certain things?

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face

Had not satan challenged, what would have motivated God to allow satan to do certain things to Job and his house? Do you think if satan wouldn't have made a single mention of anything here, that God would still have said..you know what, satan? Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. That doesn't even make sense nor agrees with the context, if we take satan's challenge out of the picture.

I don't focus on Satan's challenge. Had there been no benefit for Job, I don't think it ever would have happened . . . challenge or not. I believe God's ultimate motivation for the trials in Job's life is seen at the end of the book when Job repents.

[Phish]

I don't focus on Satan's challenge. Had there been no benefit for Job, I don't think it ever would have happened . . . challenge or not. I believe God's ultimate motivation for the trials in Job's life is seen at the end of the book when Job repents.

Spot on......................

[LankyLee]

I don't focus on Satan's challenge. Had there been no benefit for Job, I don't think it ever would have happened . . . challenge or not. I believe God's ultimate motivation for the trials in Job's life is seen at the end of the book when Job repents.

When debating an atheist you can't just leave out that much of the passage.
We as believers see these things in a different light.

[VerticalReality]

When debating an atheist you can't just leave out that much of the passage.
We as believers see these things in a different light.

I don't think anything is being left out. I think it is putting things in its proper perspective. The purpose was not to prove Satan wrong. God had a much loftier purpose than that.

I also don't believe that this was some occasion where God decided to do this because He is sovereign and "in control" of all things. To me, that is an incorrect view of God's sovereignty.

[Nobunaga]

I also don't believe that this was some occasion where God decided to do this because He is sovereign and "in control" of all things. To me, that is an incorrect view of God's sovereignty.

What do you see these rhetorical questions as showing then if not Gods mastery of the universe and highlighting our lack of understanding ?

[VerticalReality]

What do you see these rhetorical questions as showing then if not Gods mastery of the universe and highlighting our lack of understanding ?

I don't think God's rhetorical questions were an indication that His allowing these things to come upon Job were for the purposes of showing His sovereignty if that is what you are asking.

I think to apply that to God would be a gross error. Let's say, for example, that a father decides to take his son and beat him thoroughly with a baseball bat simply for the purposes of showing his son that he is in control of him. What sort of picture do you think this paints of the father? Loving? Compassionate? No, we would say that father is an absolute monster. Likewise, God was not allowing terrible things in Job's life simply to show how powerful and sovereign He is. He allowed it for Job's benefit.

[Nobunaga]

I don't think God's rhetorical questions were an indication that His allowing these things to come upon Job were for the purposes of showing His sovereignty if that is what you are asking.
.

I said the purpose of the book was theocentric, reversing the Focus on man and putting God at the forefront, looking away from self to God. To me this is what Job does when he repents, God's mastery of the universe is part of the book, you seemed to have latched on to the sovereignty part of the post and made far more out of it than i posted, maybe that my fault for not being clear. I wont defend your analogy to me, because it not my view to defend. I wrote about Gods grace also.