Satan’s being cast out of Heaven is it a future event,????

[John146]

Were they raised prior to Jesus resurrection I would not be disagreeing with you, but no, it is not based on speculation, and the text clearly says that these came from their graves after His resurrection

The English text says that, but the original Greek text does not necessarily say that. Should that not be taken into consideration?

While I will agree the wording is tricky with the order, after digging around and checking, to me it says that their actual resurrection was after Christ..which is crucial, obviously, to my argument. The graves being opened and the bodies coming out being two different events, and the latter after Christ resurrection

Why would the graves be opened when He died if they were not actually going to come out of them until 3 days later? I don't believe that makes any sense. If the graves were just open for 3 days without anyone being resurrected then people could have gone to the graves and the tombs and stolen the dead bodies or did who knows what with the bodies. Why would God create a situation like that? I think it only makes sense that they would have been resurrected and come out of the graves immediately after the graves were opened, otherwise it would have caused a huge problem of having to keep people from trying to steal the bodies and so on.

Another thing to consider is that if they were resurrected unto bodily immortality it wouldn't have required their graves and tombs to be opened at all. Think of Christ's resurrection. Did He need the stone to be rolled away from His tomb in order to be resurrected and come out of His tomb? No! His tomb was rolled away to show that He had already been resurrected and already came out of the tomb. So, being resurrected with an immortal body does not require anything to be moved out of the way in order to come out of the grave.

Your thought that that "Him" should be translated as "their", has the problem of that is not how it is translated.

I don't want to open a big can of worms here, but our English translations are not infallible. The better translations are very good and rarely inaccurate, IMO, but still not perfect. The original manuscripts are infallible, but our English translations are not. The original manuscripts were inspired by God but the English translations were not. Not that the English translators didn't try as best they could to translate accurately. I believe they did. But that doesn't make them infallible. I know this makes some people uncomfortable but we have to be willing to accept that our English translations are not the original manuscripts and therefore we can't say our English translations are completely infallible the way we can say that about the original manuscripts.

In the Interlinear it reads "after the rousing 'of Him' they-into-came"... So "their" does not really seem the route to take.

You are basing that conclusion on one source? That's hardly convincing.

[John146]

http://scripture4all.org/OnlineInter...Tpdf/mat27.pdf

Read that translation. It appears to agree with the KJV. It's not uncommon that passages sometimes have gaps of time within, and not always chronological either, and are not to to be understood as something happening all at one time. This seems to be the case here, if the above and the KJV translation is correct.

I don't believe either of them are correct for the reasons I stated in the post you were responding to and in the post I just made before this one (#991).

And besides, it makes a lot more since that they would rise AFTER His resurrection, and not before it.

Why is that? I think that would only be the case if they rose unto bodily immortality but if they were resurrected with the same mortal bodies they had when they died, like Lazarus, then I see no reason why they would have needed to be raised after His resurrection.

[quiet dove]

The English text says that, but the original Greek text does not necessarily say that. Should that not be taken into consideration?

It is the Interlinear that seems to make it more clear, and the word that can be translated "their" would not make any sense

The Interlinear says "and coming out of the memorial vaults after the rousing of him they into came into the holy city and are appearized to many"
This would make no sense if the "him" was a "they" or a "their"...

Why would the graves be opened when He died if they were not actually going to come out of them until 3 days later? I don't believe that makes any sense. If the graves were just open for 3 days without anyone being resurrected then people could have gone to the graves and the tombs and stolen the dead bodies or did who knows what with the bodies. Why would God create a situation like that? I think it only makes sense that they would have been resurrected and come out of the graves immediately after the graves were opened, otherwise it would have caused a huge problem of having to keep people from trying to steal the bodies and so on.

That is assuming what people would have done and that God was not dealing with it

Another thing to consider is that if they were resurrected unto bodily immortality it wouldn't have required their graves and tombs to be opened at all. Think of Christ's resurrection. Did He need the stone to be rolled away from His tomb in order to be resurrected and come out of His tomb? No! His tomb was rolled away to show that He had already been resurrected and already came out of the tomb. So, being resurrected with an immortal body does not require anything to be moved out of the way in order to come out of the grave.

Yea, but they are not Christ and the differences separate Christ resurrection out from theirs, and that seems very significant, especially back then and the witness of Christ truly having been resurrected. Thats why I said, it is significant that the earthquake opened their graves and not Christs

I don't want to open a big can of worms here, but our English translations are not infallible. The better translations are very good and rarely inaccurate, IMO, but still not perfect. The original manuscripts are infallible, but our English translations are not. The original manuscripts were inspired by God but the English translations were not. Not that the English translators didn't try as best they could to translate accurately. I believe they did. But that doesn't make them infallible. I know this makes some people uncomfortable but we have to be willing to accept that our English translations are not the original manuscripts and therefore we can't say our English translations are completely infallible the way we can say that about the original manuscripts.

You are basing that conclusion on one source? That's hardly convincing.

As I said, I have checked the Interlinear, and I lost count at how many translations, which one is the right one then?

[billy-brown 2]

My comment regarding Hebrews was in relation to Matthew, I meant to say "Matthew does not say one way or the other", it was a typo that I said Hebrews.

There you are then . . . I have typos from time to time also; no biggie.

However, in the age that we currently live in, Christ Jesus only has immortality--at least, this is what Paul wrote about it:

I Tim. 6
13I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
14that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

And He received this immortality when He rose from the dead. Indeed, Christ is the "first fruits" of what will happen to all people of faith when Christ returns the second time--at least, this is what Paul taught:

II Cor. 5
1For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.
5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

And the Spirit of the Lord is the "pledge" that it will occur, yes? Now, where does this leave Satan? Well, Satan has been cast out already, yes?

John 12
31“Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
33But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

[quiet dove]

There you are then . . . I have typos from time to time also; no biggie.

However, in the age that we currently live in, Christ Jesus only has immortality--at least, this is what Paul wrote about it:

1Ti 6:13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Imho, you are taking this verse out of context and misapplying it. Christ was/is and always has been immortal and eternal, always and long before His life, death, and resurrection. He at no time stopped being God the Son and there fore at no time stopped being immortal, eternal, deity....a non created being. Just as He is the only Potentate and King of kings, He also "possesses" immortality. He always has. We on the other hand must be given immortality. This verse, does not apply in such a way as to say that prior to Christ resurrection He was not immortal.

And He received this immortality when He rose from the dead. Indeed, Christ is the "first fruits" of what will happen to all people of faith when Christ returns the second time--at least, this is what Paul taught:

II Cor. 5
1For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.
5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Sorry, but again, you pick a verse out and misapply it. There was at not time that Christ could have stopped the process of His mission here on our behalf. Had He not been able to stop, He would not have then been continuing of His own free will. He never stopped being the immortal, not created, eternal, deity....God the Son. His being the first fruits does not change that He always remained immortal. Nor does it change that He is indeed the first fruits.

And the Spirit of the Lord is the "pledge" that it will occur, yes? Now, where does this leave Satan? Well, Satan has been cast out already, yes?

John 12
31“Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
33But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

If your application of Satan being "cast out" is accurate, then you are causing yourself a contradiction here
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

and here
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

So either your application of John 12 is incorrect, or we have a contradiction.

While I of course agree that Satan is defeated, I would disagree that he is still not alive and well roaming the earth. His kingdom defeated and his dominion taken, but he is still allowed to roam and entice men to continue with him in his defeated kingdom/dominion....continuing to deceive men through out the centuries. Men must choose to leave his dominion, his defeated and removed from him dominion. But at present it should be obvious he is still roaming about and doing a fine job at his business of deceiving the lost.

[billy-brown 2]

Imho, you are taking this verse out of context and misapplying it. Christ was/is and always has been immortal and eternal, always and long before His life, death, and resurrection. He at no time stopped being God the Son and there fore at no time stopped being immortal, eternal, deity....a non created being. Just as He is the only Potentate and King of kings, He also "possesses" immortality. He always has. We on the other hand must be given immortality. This verse, does not apply in such a way as to say that prior to Christ resurrection He was not immortal.

Thanks, QD,

But the following passages indicate that Jesus became man and was physically mortal while on earth--yet he was still God:

Heb. 2
14Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
16For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
17Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

Phil 2
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

These passages are critical to our thread, yes?

(go to the next post . . .)

[billy-brown 2]

(this is the continuation of the last post . . .)

Sorry, but again, you pick a verse out and misapply it. There was at not time that Christ could have stopped the process of His mission here on our behalf. Had He not been able to stop, He would not have then been continuing of His own free will. He never stopped being the immortal, not created, eternal, deity....God the Son. His being the first fruits does not change that He always remained immortal. Nor does it change that He is indeed the first fruits.

QD,

It seems that we may be speaking past each other . . . let's see . . .

The verses at question are below, yes?

II Cor. 5
1For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven,
3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked.
4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.
5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

Now, this passage from Paul is mentioning the mortal physical body--as in this phrase from Paul:

. . . the earthly tent which is our house is torn down,

And Paul contrasts the phrase above with a phrase which refers to the glorified immortal physical body:

. . . a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

And Jesus has this immortal physical body right now--but since His resurrection from the dead; He rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father as the immortal King/Priest of our lives:

I Tim. 1
15It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.
16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Heb. 7
23The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
24but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
25Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Heb. 8
1Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,
2a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

And so course, the immortal physical body is what all people of faith are hoping for; it will be given out at the Second Coming of Christ only. Paul mentions this elsewhere as well--he calls it the "redemption of our body" in Romans and so on:

Rom. 8
23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?
25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

This is what the sacrifice of Christ Jesus has provided for us, yes?

(go to the next post . . .)

[billy-brown 2]

(this is the continuation of the last post . . .)

And the Spirit of the Lord is the "pledge" that it will occur, yes? Now, where does this leave Satan? Well, Satan has been cast out already, yes?

John 12
31“Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
33But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

If your application of Satan being "cast out" is accurate, then you are causing yourself a contradiction here
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

and here
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

So either your application of John 12 is incorrect, or we have a contradiction.

While I of course agree that Satan is defeated, I would disagree that he is still not alive and well roaming the earth. His kingdom defeated and his dominion taken, but he is still allowed to roam and entice men to continue with him in his defeated kingdom/dominion....continuing to deceive men through out the centuries. Men must choose to leave his dominion, his defeated and removed from him dominion. But at present it should be obvious he is still roaming about and doing a fine job at his business of deceiving the lost.

QD,

I have a question: what did Christ mean with this passage in John 12:31-32 anyways? Remember, John indicated that this was said by Jesus to indicate the kind of death that He would die and so on.

And so, did not it take the death of Christ Jesus at Calvary to cast Satan out to the earth--as here in the VISION passage below?

Rev. 12
7And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
8and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
9And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,
“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

And so, Satan is indeed doing the following to the saints even now (in bold below):

Rev. 12
17So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Yes?

[boangry]

But Christ was and always is immortal and eternal, anytime he wanted to he could have changed his mind/repented of his earthly mission, He could have returned to heaven anytime He willed to do so, He could have rightfully judged man guilty anytime He wanted to and called legions of angels to his side, He could have decided not to undergo what He had determined at the beginning to do…


Because of His divineness when He thought of the cross work and what He was to undergo He knew exactly what was coming, because of His Divine foreknowledge It caused him to physically sweat drops of blood, The physical sweating would only be part of it. Yet there was no other way to redeem us, If it is possible let this cup pass from me, not as I will but as your will be done. This shows us the Lord had to undergo the cross for us, He had reasoned with himself before creation to create man in our image, So it was decided by all three parts of the Godhead before Adam what the Lord was to undergo…sorry derailing

Anyway He did not have to die and be raised the third day to ascend and receive his immortal body, He is God the fact He died and raised himself proves He was immortal from word go.

Notice John 12:31 has Satan cast out of the world, not out of heaven... yes?

[billy-brown 2]

But Christ was and always is immortal and eternal, anytime he wanted to he could have changed his mind/repented of his earthly mission, He could have returned to heaven anytime He willed to do so, He could have rightfully judged man guilty anytime He wanted to and called legions of angels to his side, He could have decided not to undergo what He had determined at the beginning to do…


Because of His divineness when He thought of the cross work and what He was to undergo He knew exactly what was coming, because of His Divine foreknowledge It caused him to physically sweat drops of blood, The physical sweating would only be part of it. Yet there was no other way to redeem us, If it is possible let this cup pass from me, not as I will but as your will be done. This shows us the Lord had to undergo the cross for us, He had reasoned with himself before creation to create man in our image, So it was decided by all three parts of the Godhead before Adam what the Lord was to undergo…sorry derailing

Anyway He did not have to die and be raised the third day to ascend and receive his immortal body, He is God the fact He died and raised himself proves He was immortal from word go.

Notice John 12:31 has Satan cast out of the world, not out of heaven... yes?

Boangry,

Christ could not help us unless He took upon Himself a mortal body when He came to earth; He had to be made like His brothers in ALL things.

However, this does not mean that He ceased to be God, however--Jesus is God indeed; the "God/Man" if you will (I guess that's how you explain it . . .).

And Paul as well as the writer of Hebrews confirms this below:

Heb. 2
14Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
16For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
17Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

Phil 2
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And our Savior Jesus is referring to something very powerful in John 12:31-32: He indicates the Satan will be cast out as a result of the sacrifice of Christ at Calvary. This does not refer to Satan being cast out of the world, however; this refers specifically to the activities laid out in Rev. 12--indeed, Satan has NO access to heaven at all right now. Why?

Because the kingdom of God and the authority of His Christ has come already:

Rev. 12
7And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
8and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
9And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,
“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

Matthew 28
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Yes?

[quiet dove]

But Christ was and always is immortal and eternal, anytime he wanted to he could have changed his mind/repented of his earthly mission, He could have returned to heaven anytime He willed to do so, He could have rightfully judged man guilty anytime He wanted to and called legions of angels to his side, He could have decided not to undergo what He had determined at the beginning to do… Because of His divineness when He thought of the cross work and what He was to undergo He knew exactly what was coming, because of His Divine foreknowledge It caused him to physically sweat drops of blood, The physical sweating would only be part of it. Yet there was no other way to redeem us, If it is possible let this cup pass from me, not as I will but as your will be done. This shows us the Lord had to undergo the cross for us, He had reasoned with himself before creation to create man in our image, So it was decided by all three parts of the Godhead before Adam what the Lord was to undergo…sorry derailing Anyway He did not have to die and be raised the third day to ascend and receive his immortal body, He is God the fact He died and raised himself proves He was immortal from word go. Notice John 12:31 has Satan cast out of the world, not out of heaven... yes?

I see what you are saying and agree to a certain point. I do however also agree that Christ became fully man...but remaining fully God also, as you are pointing out. As another poster said, Christ did require a mortal body in order for that body to die, but that would be the fully man. But as you stated, Christ remained fully God and could have, theoretically, changed His mind. Remaining God with the ability to change His mind is the only way He could go to the cross willingly. Had there been no option of not going, He would not have been going of His free will, but by force...

[boangry]

Boangry,

Christ could not help us unless He took upon Himself a mortal body when He came to earth; He had to be made like His brothers in ALL things.

Yes He had to be Man to be the lamb, in ALL things? does not mean He emptied Himself Of His Divine attributes But emptied himself Of his Glory or position, you could say He became a worm on behalf of man.

However, this does not mean that He ceased to be God, however--Jesus is God indeed; the "God/Man" if you will (I guess that's how you explain it . . .).

And Paul as well as the writer of Hebrews confirms this below:



And our Savior Jesus is referring to something very powerful in John 12:31-32: He indicates the Satan will be cast out as a result of the sacrifice of Christ at Calvary. This does not refer to Satan being cast out of the world, however; this refers specifically to the activities laid out in Rev. 12--indeed, Satan has NO access to heaven at all right now. Why?

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

I just dont understand how you reconcile these two verses to be specifically the same event, Now is the judgment of the WORLD now the prince of this WORLD WILL BE CAST OUT, means cast out of heaven? was Satan the prince of the world ruling from heaven? and now cast down to the world? what about when, And the Lord saw(past tense) Satan fall like lightning from heaven, seems like he was already in the world...

The kingdom and authority of His Christ already come? you dont mean here on earth though right now do you (should I ask)

Because the kingdom of God and the authority of His Christ has come already:



Yes?

[boangry]

But at present it should be obvious he is still roaming about and doing a fine job at his business of deceiving the lost.

obvious? who are the ones the lion has devoured, is the warning about the lion for the unbeliever or the believer? could uou please give me an example of an actual person that has been devoured by this lion. it may help me understand your perspective better, thanks

[quiet dove]

obvious? who are the ones the lion has devoured, is the warning about the lion for the unbeliever or the believer? could uou please give me an example of an actual person that has been devoured by this lion. it may help me understand your perspective better, thanks

The lion, speaking of Satan, I would say anyone who succumbs to his whiles and deceptions. Certainly unbelievers, but the warning(1 Peter 5:8) is given to believers that we have an enemy seeking to cause us harm and loss. Of course he cannot snatch us from Christ hand, but he can indeed mess with us, side track us, tempt us ...whatever, but he is always busy about it. Doing whatever he can to distract us .....cause us to stumble, accuse us...

[Shadowdancer777]

Satan will be cast out of heaven in the end times.