Satan’s being cast out of Heaven is it a future event,????

[Raybob]

Because the beast is of Satan. As Christ is of God.
"The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And the world marveled and followed the beast. So they worshipped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with Him?"

I worship Christ my Lord, in doing so do i not worship my God, my Father who sent Him?

You worship the Father and the Son because:

I and my Father are one.
(Joh 10:30)

Same for Satan and the beast.

[mattlad22]

You worship the Father and the Son because:

I and my Father are one.
(Joh 10:30)

Same for Satan and the beast.

So you have the answer from Him regarding your previous question.
The beast and Satan are the same. but they are not individually the same in the exact same sence as Christ and God, they are the same spirit.
So the beast that was and is not and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit into perdition is of his father, Satan who was, is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit into perdition.
Satan will join the beast and the false prophet who served him in the fire and brimstone and will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[Mithrandir-Olorin]

Santa's trinity is counterfeit, it's not authentic like The Holy Trinity.

Satan obviously isn't coming out of he Abyss in Chapter 9 when he's not placed in it till Chapter 20.

[billy-brown 2]

You know you just nailed it right on the head and you dont even realize it?

You said Satan cannot make anyone do anything, he causes deception leaving a choice.
You are very correct.
Who cause's all of them to worship the beast? to worship the beast's image and to take his mark or number or name? Is it Satan or is it the beast? Satan isnt making anyone do anything, he gives the beast his power, his throne and great authority.
Who do those who are not written in the book of the Lamb worship? The beast who gets his power, throne and authority from Satan, thus in so worshipping Satan but directly worshipping the beast, not Satan. Those who do worship the beast do so because "They love not the Lord God" They choose to worship the beast because of strong deception, but it is still thier choice.

John didnt worship the beast because the beast's time wasnt then. The restraint is still there until the man of lawlessness, the son of perdition is revealed. However Satan was powerless againts John, because of He who is in John, Therefore John would not have worshipped the beast even if it was his time.


Satan is allowed to decieve because hes not bound, sealed and cast into the bottomless pit, when he is, he isnt allowed for a thousand years, when it expire, he is allowed.
Satan cannot give his power, throne or great authority to the man of lawlessness because of the restraint, which is the Word, the Spirit of God, the fullfillment of His will, Satan cannot do this until His word is fullfilled to that point in which the man of lawlessness will be revealed and as Revelation describes will do as the Word imply's.

Again you say exactly what is His will and do not even realize it.
The beast is given power over the saints, to overcome them before Christ comes, then when my Lord comes the beast and false prophet are cast to the fire and Satan is bound.
However when Satan is released he is not given power over the saints because he has no power over my Lord, they surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city and are devoured with fire from heaven. No war, no overcoming, God fullfilling His word.

Indeed it is used againts him at the end of the 1000 years. Binding, being sealed and cast to the bottomless pit by God through His angel is not a half measure, it is complete seperation from being able to do what Satan does, when he is bound he is powerless, but he shall be released for a little time.

Well, if the beast's time wasn't back then during the time of John, then . . . well . . . let's see . . . I suspect the we both believe that that Christ's second coming is in our future from now.

However, Christ Jesus our Lord commanded John the Revelator to write what he saw (and heard, etc.) and send it to seven Asian Churches of the first century.

So, if the text of what John wrote to the 7 Asian Churches did not have meaning for their first-century time frame, then there is no real point to the book of Revelation in general. But of course, since Jesus is Alpha and Omega, the book of Revelation indeed has meaning for all Christians--including the Christians in Rev. 1:4 and Rev. 1:11 below:

Rev. 1
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
2who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.
3Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
4John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
5and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—
6and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

and

Rev. 1
8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
9I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,
11saying, “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

And I am sure that the Asian churches read the following verses below, yes?

Revelation 17:1-7
1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,
2 with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality.”
3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,
5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”
6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.
7 And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

Now, the words "sits" and "sitting" in Rev. 17:1 and 17:3 are allegiance words. The "Mystery Babylon", then, has an allegiance to "the Beast".

Furthermore, the word "carries" in Rev. 17:7 is a support word. "The Beast", then, supports "Mystery Babylon"--but only after a "fashion." Actually, "The Beast" "hates" "Mystery Babylon." And "Mystery Babylon" killed Saint Stephen of the book of Acts according to this verse:

Rev. 18
24“And in her ("the Whore!") was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”

And so, if the "beast" and "Mystery Babylon" has "relations" with each other as described in this post, how can those "relations" be accomplished? Can they be separated in time?

No.

Therefore, the beast has to have been around a long time--even during the time of John the Revelator; indeed, the "beast" is not just future from out time--at least, from the standpoint of the scripture . . .

Finally, let us remember that the book of Revelation was written for the 1st century saints primarily--even though it speaks to us today also (since Jesus is Alpha and Omega). Indeed, the saints in the Asian churches of that 1st-century time were encouraged as they read John's letter(s) to know that as they maintained faith and patience despite their trouble and persecution, they would be vindicated in martyrdom (or imprisonment) by our God.

In other words, for us to say that there was not a "Beast" during the 1st century--an "entity" that was beheading Christians back then (per Rev. 20:4-6)--well, I have to really wonder about that . . .

[Mithrandir-Olorin]

The Beast refer sometimes to The Antichrist as an individual, but also to his Kingdom as a whole.

The Beast Out of The Sea is the same as the 4th beast of Daniel 7, now fully revealed.

[billy-brown 2]

The Beast refer sometimes to The Antichrist as an individual, but also to his Kingdom as a whole.

The Beast Out of The Sea is the same as the 4th beast of Daniel 7, now fully revealed.

Well, the notion of "antichrist"--as conceived by the Apostle John--deals ONLY with false doctrine and teaching apropos the proclamation of the Word of the truth of the Gospel--that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Indeed, this is very specific.

And also, "antichrist(s)" came out from among the Christians ONLY--according to John:

1 John 2
18 "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.
19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, in order that it might be shown that they all are not of us."20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth.
22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

And therefore, the Apostle Peter can indicate the following similarly as well:

II Peter 2
1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

as likewise the Apostle Paul:

I Tim. 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Yes?

[Mithrandir-Olorin]

Nice Semantics distraction, everyone knows how we use the word today. And The Antichrist probably will claim to be a Christian of some sort.

[Raybob]

Nice Semantics distraction, everyone knows how we use the word today. And The Antichrist probably will claim to be a Christian of some sort.

That's not a good thing to do in these 'latter times' since that doctrine isn't found in the bible.

I Tim. 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

[Mithrandir-Olorin]

The "Man of Sin" will attempt to untie all religion, he'll claim to belong to them all in some way.

[divaD]

But Satan (the dragon) wants another shot at defeating GOD's forces in a war.

(After all, he lost the war of Rev. 12, yes?)

these seem like valid points. I've asked this in the past, but if no one knows the day or hour of Christ's return, then how would satan know when to start gathering the army to try and defeat God? How would satan even know when he is loosed, if the binding in the pit wasn't ever in the literal sense?

If I weren't premil, I think the route I would go is this...when satan loses the war in heaven, that marks the ending of the 1000 years, and begins the little season. Since satan is coming down to the earth with great wrath, gathering an army to battle might be a logical plan of choice.

If we look in Revelation 12 we see that once satan gets here, he starts persecuting the woman, then her seed when the woman is protected.

If we also look here, we see this.

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

It would seem satan's little season starts here.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


This would be what Christ puts an end to when He returns...satan's little season against the church. The church would be that beloved city.

Keep in mind, only if I weren't premil. Ok now, let's say that that all works..there's still the problem of the 1000 years. Where would that fit? If this war in heaven occured when Christ ascended, and that began satan's little season, which seems logical, based on the fact that he persecutes the church after getting evicted, it wouldn't give time for a thousand years to fit anywhere. So obviously then, this is why I remain premil...too many holes in the other views. Not that there aren't holes in premil as well.

[Diggindeeper]

I can certainly see where what I said might sound confusing. Of course the Father and the Son are both God, but my point was, they're not the same person according to the trinitarian understanding of it.

So then, it's perfectly logical that God(the Father) rained down fire upon them, and not that God(the Son) did..

DiviD, does this answer who brings on the 'fire'"

2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Also, earlier in that same chapter, Paul declared this:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 [I]Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ[/I], and by our gathering together unto him, This has to be what some call 'the rapture.'!!! He comes...and we are gathered!

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except
there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So, doesn't this mean
1- At Christ's return
2- When we are gathered to him (the rapture!)
THEN...the man of sin will be revealed.
4- The wicked will be destroyed at the brightness of his coming!

[Diggindeeper]

This would be what Christ puts an end to when He returns...satan's little season against the church. The church would be that beloved city.

Keep in mind, only if I weren't premil. Ok now, let's say that that all works..there's still the problem of the 1000 years. Where would that fit? If this war in heaven occured when Christ ascended, and that began satan's little season, which seems logical, based on the fact that he persecutes the church after getting evicted, it wouldn't give time for a thousand years to fit anywhere. So obviously then, this is why I remain premil...too many holes in the other views. Not that there aren't holes in premil as well.

It is no problem at all to those of us who understand this so-called 1,000 years is the time we are in NOW--between the cross (when Jesus said, IT IS FINISHED) until he returns the second time as he promised he would do.

Its the ONLY way that '1,000' years makes sense! Now, when Christ returns, and we are gathered to him, THEN will the wicked be destroyed by the brightness of his coming.

No holes at all, DivaD. None at all. It all fits like pieces of a beautiful puzzle!

[Mithrandir-Olorin]

Believing we're in the Millenium now is Absurd on so many levels.

[Diggindeeper]

Well, enlighten us, Mithrandiro Olorin. Prove to us how it is absurd.

[Redeemed by Grace]

Hi Saints of the Lord,

I am aware of this (in bold above), and that's the reason that the "motherload" concept of this thread is whether Jesus is King of the Kingdom of God right now or not--and since He has been raised from the dead.

Why?

Well, because if Jesus is King and Priest already, then Satan has been cast out already.

Yep.

After all, the Immortal King and Priest Jesus is seated at the right Hand of God on a FOREVER THRONE:



And Jesus is King and High Priest indeed RIGHT NOW on that throne:



Yes?

Howdy BB2,

To your reply... Jesus taught His disciples to pray in the manner of Matthew 5...

Thy kingdom to come on earth, as it [already] is in heaven... So I take that to be a literal physical earthly Kingdom...


Seeing I don't see Jesus here on the earth today - yet [not denying His Spirit within my heart or in the saints of today], as He physically came the first time to find the lost, He'll return again, in a physical way to judge the world , Satan still has liberty to be both in heaven and in earth and the battle is one seasonal battle.... to the yet future to be kicked out of heaven for good, with his wrath then being manifested on the earth to try and set himself up as the god of this world in a physical, visual way.


Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

That's why some of us here see this as yet future....