in Rev. 7:2 ----ask yourself ---Where are the other angels?

[vinsight4u8]

'another angel ascending from the east"

This shows that some of this chapter has been hidden elsewhere within the Book of Revelation.


Rev. 10;7
"...the mystery of God..."

hidden
made obscure

So how do we figure it out? How do we come to know the actual order that events were shown to John?

Answer>
Watch his grammar.
Look closely at how he says things.

Rev. 12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven..."
Rev. 15:1
"And I saw another sign in heaven..."

If you found this Rev. 15:1 statement written in chapter 7, then you would know that prior to Rev. 15:1 there was at least one other sign/wonder seen in heaven.

Now, consider the words of Rev. 7:2 as to another angel ascending from the east.
ask - what goes for sure ahead of this part?

answer
other ascending from the east angel(s)

so is this where the -mystery of God begins/
the section hidden in Revelation till the end days?
a part hidden as it was not to occur in John's day?

Is this why we find Rev. 15:1 >
"And I saw another sign...seven angels..."

Okay, new angel set alert!

only then can later come Rev. 8:2 as to "the seven angels"

[divaD]

'another angel ascending from the east"

This shows that some of this chapter has been hidden elsewhere within the Book of Revelation.


Rev. 10;7
"...the mystery of God..."

hidden
made obscure

So how do we figure it out? How do we come to know the actual order that events were shown to John?

Answer>
Watch his grammar.
Look closely at how he says things.

Rev. 12:1
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven..."
Rev. 15:1
"And I saw another sign in heaven..."

If you found this Rev. 15:1 statement written in chapter 7, then you would know that prior to Rev. 15:1 there was at least one other sign/wonder seen in heaven.

Now, consider the words of Rev. 7:2 as to another angel ascending from the east.
ask - what goes for sure ahead of this part?

answer
other ascending from the east angel(s)

so is this where the -mystery of God begins/
the section hidden in Revelation till the end days?
a part hidden as it was not to occur in John's day?

Is this why we find Rev. 15:1 >
"And I saw another sign...seven angels..."

Okay, new angel set alert!

only then can later come Rev. 8:2 as to "the seven angels"

I've pointed this out before. If you're going to intepret Scripture in that manner, then you have to do it the same way in all cases, no exceptions.



Revelation 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.



using your theory this would mean that some angel came down from heaven before another angel could come down from angel. Now if we look at Revelation 20:1 we see that an angel came down from heaven. Not another angel tho, but an angel. If you're theory is correct, then Revelation 20:1 would have to take place in time before that of Revelation 10:1 or Revelation 18:1.


Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

This would have to be the first angel that came down from heaven. Now, when John sees another angel come down from heaven, he's basing it on his sighting of the angel that came down first in Revelation 20:1. Now it would be perfectly logical to say that another angel came down from heaven in Revelation 10:1 and Revelation 18:1.

I'm willing to agree that perhaps your theory has merit, but only if you agree that what I just posted about these 3 passages, that this theory has merit as well, since it would be based entirely on your theory. To be honest, even tho I'm premil, Rev 20:1 very well could have taken place in time before that of Revelation 10:1 and Revelation 18:1. I don't know tho, but I can see it as a possibility.

[vinsight4u8]

John experienced Rev. 15:1 sometime earlier than Rev. 8:2.

How does John know the sealing information that he heard in Rev. 7 went with the remarks by the one "we" angel? Because John had to see that angel give the report.

Here is when the seven angels stood before God.
Here is when the trumpet times came.
Before the end of Rev. 7 - all angels will be together round about te throne.

[Nihil Obstat]

Valery (if I remember correctly, that is your name), why do you bring this up several times a year? It's one of the only things you post here. Why do you consider it to be so important? And if it is so important, why don't you communicate it more clearly? Your posts are always a chore to follow along with (though when you first started here your posts were very clearly written). Not trying to be mean. - astro

[vinsight4u8]

Valery (if I remember correctly, that is your name), why do you bring this up several times a year? It's one of the only things you post here. Why do you consider it to be so important? And if it is so important, why don't you communicate it more clearly? Your posts are always a chore to follow along with (though when you first started here your posts were very clearly written). Not trying to be mean. - astro

I have just been stopping by and quickly posting as to a way to understand the actual order of what John saw and when - to see uf there is any interest. If not, then I don't post for a while, then I try agaiin.
If we don't lay out the chapters /verses as to the way they were revealed to John, then how can we understand the prophecies in Reveltion?
For example: some people warn as to changing anything in the entire Book of Revelation.They use the warning at the end part of the book. But the verses refer to not two holy cities, but one. Revelation has within it prophecy as to the holy city on earth and the new Jerusalem. This tells me that the last part of Revelation is to be separated from the rest of the book.

Rev. 22:18
"...the prophecy of this book...the plagues that are written in this book."
v19
""...and out of the holy city...things written in this book."

Rev. Rev. 21:10
"...the holy Jerusalem...out of heaven..."

Rev. 11:3
"...the holy city shall they tread under..."

Rev. 10:7
"...in the days of the sevneth angel...the mystery of God shall be finished..."
/as in - Rev. 21 is not part of the mystery of God
Rev. 21 is due to John ate a little book in Rev. 10 and was to prophesy something that was after the mystery of God section.
10:10
"...the little book..ate it..."
v11
"...prophesy again..."

So the little book part can't begin until the msytery of God section ends with the 7th trumpet.
/as in the little book does not contain the trumpet plagues within it

[vinsight4u8]

Revelation is divided up into sections as to how John had each part revealed to him, such as - visions, a book (letters), a sealed -then opened book, an eaten book. These various sections went back and forth in time as they revealed to John what will come.
Rev. 16-22 has chapters that state "after"as in after this one came that one and so on. If John had been writing everything down in order, then why even note some parts as to being "after" another one?

Rev. 18:1
"And after these things I saw..."
Rev. 19:1
"And after these things I heard..."

/So we know that John was given the message of chapter 19 after he had been given that of chapter 18.
Okay, but this is not the pattern throughout Revelation. We have to find some key in each chapter or so that clearly lays out the right pattern.

ex.
Rev. 17:1 does not say "after". John did not come right out and say this part is after chapter 16. So what can we do? We go look for clues that reveal if it was after chapter 16.

Rev. 17:1
"And there came one of the seven angels..."
/so we know - Rev. 15 had to come first
as to - Rev. 15:1 where John sees seven angels.

Now, can we prove that chapter 16 fits ahead of 17?
Let's keep going.
John has a pattern of tying his subjects in his writings to the last thing he saw them doing.
Rev. 17:1
"And there came one of the seven angels, which had the seven vials..."
/Well, those vials entered Rev. at 15:7.
"...seven golden vials..."

See how Rev. 15 was shown to John before the message of Rev. 17, 18, 19?
Rev. 15 ends with referring to the seven angels as to the seven plagues.
/not the vials full
We then need chapter 16's story as to the pouring of the seven vials to place for sure Rev. 16 just ahead of Rev. 17.
/as in the last time John had seen the seven angels, it was with vials
Then for Rev. 17 -he talked with one of the seven angels that had the seven vials.

[Nihil Obstat]

I have just been stopping by and quickly posting as to a way to understand the actual order of what John saw and when - to see uf there is any interest. If not, then I don't post for a while, then I try again.

I'm sorry, but it's not that there's no interest in discussing people's viewpoints here. All your threads flop because you claim that Revelation is confusing and needs to be restructured in order to understand it, and you claim to have the secret deciphering ring in your possession, but when you go on to de-mystify the book, your posts are just as jumbled and foggy as you claim Revelation is itself. So no one reads your posts. If you want back and forth dialog, write more clearly, form complete sentences, and stop placing yourself in some special position where everyone needs you in order to properly understand God's word.

[vinsight4u8]

In Rev. 15, when the seven angels come out of the temple in heaven, they seem to be dressed in the attire that Ezekiel 9 shows -- sets a mark on some to be protected, survive the coming troubles.

Then too - after the time of trouble - isn't that when the ark of God in heaven would be shown?
time for salvation -- time for mercy
time for Him to arise and go after His enemies

Then why the numbers sealed told in Rev. 7?
according to tribes

to set the land for the restarting of Israel?

The divisions (in the past) were according to the number in the tribes.

[vinsight4u8]

Rev. 20:1 is not something that Jon saw before he saw chapter 10 or 18. It is just that by the time of chapter 20 the whole entire process of angels one at a time coming down from heaven must begin again, as when the church is raptured - all angels have returned to heaven.

Rev. 7:11
"And all the angels stood round about the throne..."

Any angels that came down from heaven, such as the one that seems to leave heaven in Rev. 5, have returned to heaven when it is time to rapture the church.

In Rev. 19, it shows the saints have their time to be arrayed in righteousness.
All the angels have returned to heaven about the time of the rapture.
Thi would mean by the time of chapter 20- the angel coming down times would start all over.

[vinsight4u8]

Hi all,

Never have I claimed to be needed for anyone to understand prophecy or the book of Revelation or any other book of the Bbile. I just want to make this clear, due to some comments by a poster under this thread.

[vinsight4u8]

Hi divaD.

The first angel to come down from heaven as a mighty angel was the one with the sealed book job that hunted for someone - even under the earth to open it.

Rev. 5:2
"...a stong angel..."
/It seems as if the angel went to several locations looking for someone.

Rev. 20:1
"And I saw an angel come down from heaven..."
/This is because all the angels had returned to heaven.
as shown in Rev.7 - alll angels will stand round about the throne
/so angels that came down -- went back

[vinsight4u8]

Hi divaD.

I've been looking more at your reply. First, sorry if I missed an earlier post where you wrote as to these things. We can tell Rev. 18 is not after chapter 20 as to Rev. 19 is part of the needed chapter 20 story, and John placed seeing it as after Rev. 18.

Rev 18:1
"And after these things...another angel come down from heaven"
Rev. 19:1
"And after these things..."
Rev. 20:4
"..they sat..."
/We need the chapter 19 message first, so we can tell this sitting group is the army that was fighting at the battle against the beast.

I see chapters 16-22 as being in their proper order as to what John saw next and on.

Rev. 16:1
"And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels..."
/the angels go and pour out the vials of God's wrath

Rev. 17:1
"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials..."
/the vials is the last thing that John saw the angels doing

Rev. 18:1
"And after these things...another angel came down from heaven..."
Rev. 18:6
"...fill to her double."
/Babylon will get the vials again
/as the seven last plagues
Rev. 21:9
"And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me..."
/It is what John saw the angels do last. But now it is not time to pour a vial, just that one of the poured the vials of the seven last plagues (as in the filled up again) angels has come to talk with John.

Just as in Revv. 8:2 -- it is not then time to sound the trumpets. John notes them as to what he has seen them do just ahead of that time. He wants us to know that the angels that were given trumpets showed up.

[vinsight4u8]

Rev. 8:13
"And...an angel flying through the midst of heaven..."

Rev. 14:8
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven..."
If either of these angels had come to talk with John later - he would have referred to them as to what he had seen them already do.

such as in Rev. 10 - the angel comes down - stands on the sea and the earth

Rev. 10:1
"And I saw another mighty angel come down..."
v3
"...set his right foot upon the sea..."

v5
"And the angel which I saw stand upon the earth and the sea..."

John later in the chapter talks to this angel.
He then refers to him as "the angel".
/because we can tell what angel he means

Now, take Rev. 7 -four angels enter the scene
stand on the four corners of the earth
Why is John so specific later as to what four angels he is referring to?
/because when we find the mystery missing pieces, we learn that by this time John has seen other angels for this Rev. 7 prophecy.

Rev. 7:1
"...saw four angels.."
John did not need later to tell us these are the ones that can hurt the earth and the sea. This is something we were already made aware of- as they stand and hold the wind. Yet, the we angel speaks to four other angels. John goes out of his way to make sure we understand what four angels are spoken to.
One thing prophets don't do is waste time by giving the same details over and over again in their messages.

I say that if there weren't other angel(s) ascending from the east, then John would have just jotted down that the we angel spoke to the four angels.

not this way >

"...to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea."
Rev. 7:2
7:1
"... four angels ...holding the four winds..that the wind not blow on the earth, on the sea, nor on any tree.'

[vinsight4u8]

Ask too?

How did John know the sealing report given in Rev. 7 as to the numbers sealed was done by the"we" angels?
Unless he saw them giving the report- as in standing before God in Rev. 7-- the sealing information he heard couldn't for sure be applied to them.