Can you be saved and not know it?

[Redeemed by Grace]

Can you be a Blood bought Child of God but lack the faith to believe in your salvation?

Thereby not knowing if you are saved or not?

So you are saved but don't know it.

This is not a predestination issue I don't think, but simply a lack of faith in the Blood of Jesus issue....I think.

Could one live their whole life not knowing they are saved and fearing the day?

Hi LL,

If I may offer some comments to your OP...

As we know, no one can come to salvation without coming to Jesus Christ, so can you or I be saved and not know Jesus as our Savior? I'd say that the answer be a simple no... one today needs to bend a knee at the cross of Jesus.

But I do see your question holding some insight to a group of folks in the future who Jesus describes within Matthew 25, who at the judgment, Jesus calling them to salvation - for their acts of compassion in helping persecuted Christians of the last days during the great tribulation.

Matthew 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'

So I submit for biblical consideration, that these folks that Jesus is describing here will realize their salvation in Jesus Christ at the very end... so in effect, they don't know it until the Judgement occurs, again, based on thier good works in providing provisions and support to those christian brothers and sisters during the last days [brothers of Mine]

[RollTide21]

Can you be a Blood bought Child of God but lack the faith to believe in your salvation?

Thereby not knowing if you are saved or not?

So you are saved but don't know it.

This is not a predestination issue I don't think, but simply a lack of faith in the Blood of Jesus issue....I think.

Could one live their whole life not knowing they are saved and fearing the day?

No one can be saved until their heart is prompted by the Spirit of God to surrender to Christ. If that happens, the person is saved. Doubt and crises of faith do not render the Blood of Christ insufficient. Satan will do whatever he can to thwart the joy of our salvation. That doesn't mean that he can pry us from the Father's hand.

I would say that, as long as our heart is sincere and we have accepted Christ in Faith and humility, our own insecurity comes from the Enemy trying to confuse us and ruin our Peace and Joy.

[gringo300]

I've looked at this thread, and thought about it, and have concluded that the logic of it can be twisted around so many ways, I'm afraid to touch it.

All I'll say is, I personally earned every instant of eternity in Hell. I know one day I admitted this before God and said I was accepting the offer of a way out of what I 100% deserve.

If I thought I had to DESERVE missing out on Hell to miss out on Hell, I would know that I was just plain out of luck.

I can't speak for ANYONE else.

[Illumined]

Fact is, I can even murder someone and still be saved. I'll pay the temporal price but I'll still be saved.

Not that I would ever consider it........but I have wondered about that subject based upon this verse...

1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

This clearly is saying that anyone with the Spirit of Jesus Christ, (Holy Spirit=Eternal Life) in them....can't 'murder' .....

[ImmenseDisciple]

The thread title & the first post don't entirely coalesce - from the responses, I'm wondering if there's a little confusion as to what you're really asking here...

To the question which the title seems to imply, "Can someone have achieved salvation unknowingly?" my understanding would have this as a possibility only in incredibly limited circumstances (for example, I don't think we can speak with great certainty about those who die never having heard the gospel) if at all.

As for the question the first post seems to be posing, "Is it possible for someone who is saved to doubt they are saved?" I believe that to definitively be so, yes. Though we can't truly know who fits in the category in the first place, my own experiences and stories I have heard make it seem likely to me that members firmly embedded in His flock can have moments of weakness in which they doubt any number of things - whether He's looking out for them, whether they're truly saved, whether any of it is true at all... I don't see this as cause to assume they're not saved.

[Vhayes]

Not that I would ever consider it........but I have wondered about that subject based upon this verse...

1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

This clearly is saying that anyone with the Spirit of Jesus Christ, (Holy Spirit=Eternal Life) in them....can't 'murder' .....

Take it a step further - anyone who hates is equally guilty.

If you grow in the Lord, spend time with Him daily/hourly/minute by minute, you will not only not have the desire to murder, there will be no hatred in your (generic your) heart either.

Regardless, the price for sin has been paid. Once for all.

Not sure if that makes sense or not...

[jes]

Can you be a Blood bought Child of God but lack the faith to believe in your salvation?

Thereby not knowing if you are saved or not?

So you are saved but don't know it.

This is not a predestination issue I don't think, but simply a lack of faith in the Blood of Jesus issue....I think.

Could one live their whole life not knowing they are saved and fearing the day?

No. Sadly many think that they are saved by not speaking in tongues. Yet what a wonderful assurance God provides for those who have received His Spirit. God gives His people a clear sign that they have received His Spirit, He doesn't leave us wondering or guessing. Basically, by doing Acts 2:38, which includes baptism in water, you have your salvation.

[RollTide21]

If a person is truly battling an inward fear that they are not saved, I can think of a couple of possible scenarios. Assuming the person actually WANTS to be saved:

1. He is truly saved and the internal struggle is a matter of doubt, spurred on by the Enemy attempting to rob him of the Joy of his salvation. Perhaps this came from faulty discipleship...or it could be just that the person is naturally an overreactive, overthinking type of person and Satan is using this to cause His Walk to be one of fear and doubt. The condition of his heart would be such that there is an openness and humility before God. He can be delivered from this doubt by the Holy Spirit in whatever manner or time God sees fit to accomplish what He wants in that person.

2. A person wants to be saved, but doubts their salvation because there are parts of his life that he continues to hold onto. There is not a complete surrender. As Followers of Christ, there are areas of our lives that we all struggle with in handing over to God. But...at a certain point in our past, we made a conscious and true commitment that, from that point forward, we surrendered our lives to Christ. The person who WANTS to be saved, but is unwilling to sacrifice all of his life to receive the Gift of Christ, will doubt...and SHOULD doubt. I will say this, though: This person is one whom Christ will continue to draw into Himself. I can't say that I honestly believe that 100% of the time he will respond in total Faith, but there is a good chance.

[LookingUp]

Can you be a Blood bought Child of God but lack the faith to believe in your salvation?

Thereby not knowing if you are saved or not?

So you are saved but don't know it.

This is not a predestination issue I don't think, but simply a lack of faith in the Blood of Jesus issue....I think.

Could one live their whole life not knowing they are saved and fearing the day?

I'm not sure what you mean by "lack the faith" to believe. If they have rejected Christ, I would be concerned for their salvation. But even this is subjective...only God knows if they have rejected the true Christ or someone's perverted version of Christ. If they die never hearing of Christ, they could find themselves saved at judgment.

[John Zain]

I heard Billy Grahem say on TV that he didn't know for 6 months
what had happened to him, i.e. that he had been saved.

Ditto for me ... exactly ... 6 months.

[MoreMercy]

I have been wanting to post on this thread for several days, maybe even a week now.
I am going to try and answer the title of this thread, answer it very ambiguously.

But first, the reason and personal experience for my answer:
I know now several people but will pick one for an example, a young man who rejects religion, period. Not saying he rejects God, but that he rejects religion as presented to Him by the teachings and examples of men.
Although, this person has more of Father's examples of compassion, mercy, empathy, wisdom and understanding abiding and flowing out of his heart than almost all of the others that I know (including myself !) more of Father's love flows/springs out of this mans life lived than those of us who actually go about living our lives speaking that we are saved.

Does this person I speak of recognize the examples of Father's love that springs/flows from his own heart toward his fellow creatures who Father puts in his path ? I do not know, but I am positive that Christ knows...
Is this person saved ? I do not know and fear to judge or assume, only Christ can and will pronounce that one day soon too...

Now, the ambiguous answer to the title of this thread:
Father, Father's prophets and teachers and our Lord, King and Priest Christ Jesus say: that in the/these last days that Father will scribe His law in the hearts of his children.

I do not need a book any longer to seek and or hear my Master because I have spent decades now seeking Him and His plan of restoration, seeking Him in His written word, and in prayer. I know my obedience and I recognize my disobedience to His word because I studied and still chew and have brought to my remembrance His word to show myself approved to Him.
I studied the law and words of God which were scribed in stone (paper now-a-days).
...Well I see more than one person walking this Earth today who give living examples of obedience to His law and words, ones who live lives of self denial and sacrifice to and for those who God has placed in their lives paths, Ones who walk/live obediently to the spirit of His law and words, ones who do not seek Him in His law and words scribed to stone (paper now-a-days) but have His law and words scribed into their hearts.

Since the day has come that Father scribes His law in the hearts of His children, that since that day is come now our human governments will try to legislate Father's words and law to bring obedience to them, which is a blasphemy to the Holy Spirit of God which is/was sent to scribe His law in our hearts, amen.

All of what I shared here, is what it is.
I will not expound or elaborate because it will bring division and discord in the body of Christ.... so just take it or leave it.


Father bless, and have mercy on us.

[dan p]

Can you be a Blood bought Child of God but lack the faith to believe in your salvation?

Thereby not knowing if you are saved or not?

So you are saved but don't know it.

This is not a predestination issue I don't think, but simply a lack of faith in the Blood of Jesus issue....I think.

Could one live their whole life not knowing they are saved and fearing the day?

Hi , and when in my youth I always wondered about Eternal life ,

Here is just one , one ,solution fron the bible .

Eph 2:8 , says , " For by Grace you are HAVING BEEN SAVED "

The Greek word SOZO , is a verb in the Perfect Tense , Passive Voice and a Participle .

#1 , That is why it is translated , HAVING BEEN SAVED !!

#2 , It is in the Passive voice , because God is DOING the saving .

#3 , The Perfect Tense means Past Action with Continuing Results .

#4 , The Past Action is what point in time you were saved !

#5 ,The Continuing Results are alway in the Present tense , Never in the Past and Never in the Future and that means OSAS .

Here is another example of the Perfect Tense , in John19:30 , where Jesus said " it is finished " !!

The Past Action is His Crucifixion !!

The Continuing Results are , He is still saving people and forgiving their sins , PAST , PRESENT AND FUTURE .

The prefect tense also means that , SINCE Jesus died ONCE for sin , He will never go back and be Crucified ever again .

So , OSAS is a proven fact from the bible , dan p

[episkopos]

It is a blessed thing to do all without claiming any reward or status for oneself! This is the heart of the character of Christ.

[richwalt]

Can you be a Blood bought Child of God but lack the faith to believe in your salvation?

Thereby not knowing if you are saved or not?

So you are saved but don't know it.

This is not a predestination issue I don't think, but simply a lack of faith in the Blood of Jesus issue....I think.

Could one live their whole life not knowing they are saved and fearing the day?

LankyLee ... Look at this scripture: 1 John 2:3 "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments."

This verse uses some strange language ....

"We Know that we have come to Know him ..." ??? Why would the Bible have that kind of language? Who talks like that? ????

Look at the second part: "Have come to Know him" ... wouldn't that be equivalent to being saved? Yes, I think so.

Now Look at the first part: "We Know ...(that we have come to know him) "
This seems to be talking about a person having confidence in the fact that he/she is saved. Right?

So ... the question becomes: Is it possible to have come to know him, without knowing that as a solid fact?

Since this verse is encouraging someone .... by stepping into that confidence, or assurance ... I would say "Yes, it's possible for someone to have come to know him ... without knowing that as solid fact!" This verse seems to be written for just such occasion! ;-)

Does that make sense?

But the peace comes from your relationship with Christ, knowing Christ's heart, and trusting in Christ. Also Check out John 14:15-24. (This is just another way to share the Gospel, it's built on a committed relationship of love to Christ - a love that seems to automatically apply pressure to grow closer to Him, to grow in moral maturity that pleases Him, with a love that only grows stronger over time.

The closest object lesson of a relationship like that would be the example of marriage. Marriage, according to Eph 5:32, is meant to picture our relationship to Christ.
Eph 5:32 -> the mystery refers back to verse 25 onward: marriage. And obviously, from verse 32, this pictures our relationship to Christ. )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW ... The whole book of First John has many "test" for those that have come to know Christ. It's not so much to condemn Christians in these "test" ... but rather, to teach them to understand the very real changes that have occurred in their lives. You should read the whole book slowly, with meditation, if you're struggling to understand that you are saved. ;-)

[Colight]

LankyLee ... Look at this scripture: 1 John 2:3 "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments."

This verse uses some strange language ....

"We Know that we have come to Know him ..." ??? Why would the Bible have that kind of language? Who talks like that? ????

Look at the second part: "Have come to Know him" ... wouldn't that be equivalent to being saved? Yes, I think so.

Now Look at the first part: "We Know ..."
This seems to be talking about a person having confidence in the fact that he/she is saved. Right?



So, since this verse is encouraging one to step into that confidence, or assurance ... it would seem logical that it's possible for one to "have come to know him" ... but perhaps "not fully know" ... or not have that confidence that he is really saved. Does that make sense? But the peace comes from your relationship with Christ, knowing Christ's heart, and trusting in Christ. Also Check out John 14:15-24. (This is just another way to share the Gospel, it's built on a committed relationship of love to Christ. The closest object lesson of that relationship is marriage - which is meant to picture our relationship to Christ. Eph 5:32 -> the mystery refers to what marriage is meant to picture - our relationship to Christ. )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW ... The whole book of First John has many "test" for those that have come to know Christ. It's not so much to condemn Christians in these "test" ... but rather, to teach them to understand the very real changes that have occurred in their lives. You should read the whole book slowly, with meditation, if you're struggling to understand that you are saved. ;-)

The very fact one has the ability to come to know him, means they are saved..
To know Christ is a reference to Christian growth, not the foundation of salvation which Christ has all ready laid,.

For salvation it is only about belief on him. not struggling to get to know him,

John 1:12

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:



Just to believe on his name results in salvation..
No struggle.. no bending a knee... no confession of sins.. no walking down front.. or the other non-sense that main stream churches make one do for salvation.. only belief on him.