Is Jesus going to judge us on correct doctrine, or correct living and treating others and loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves?
The person with the correct doctrine is the person who loves like Jesus loved cause they're the ones that actually "get it".
Course that's just my personal opinion but I haven't seen any actual living, walking proof beyond this one thing, so there you have it.
Even so, come Lord Jesus!
Of those three, I'll go with Protestantism. Why?Originally Posted by ozell
First, I will agree with you that it is important to not be deceived. Deception is a significant theme of the New Testament and we are clearly warned, especially in regards to the last days (which we surely are in), to be on the alert. Second, I also agree with you that it makes a difference. Being deceived will certainly result in an improper relationship with the Lord, or even worse in destruction.
I don't believe that today one can absolve themselves of responsibility by claiming the following:
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
If there is "another Jesus" preached, he exists only because of the one preaching him. Following what a false apostle claims to be the gospel is a dangerous thing. There is probably more about false teachers than false Jesus' in the New Testament. So continuing religiously and stedfastly in fellowship with a particular man or a particular Church or an exclusive set of teachings (a particular doctrine) might seem right but significantly miss the mark.
If we believe that we should and can still today continue "stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship" as in the first century, then we are going to come up with some problems too. For example, the one's who most claim this doctrine somehow famously leave off Spiritual gifts. They believe the presence of them had to do with the presence of the apostles and thus now we no longer have them, they were left in the first century.
For me, Protestantism's foundations are wise and correct. They point us to the correct source for correct doctrine, Scripture. Grace, faith, Jesus; as found and taught in Scripture; applied to today. Though I might consult Martin Luther, he would be sure to direct me to the scriptures.
So the key is in rightly dividing Scripture. Impossible task? Surely the enterprise is worth pursuing, even if we don't all come to the same conclusions.
ozell, what exactly are you declaring here? I agree with RollTide21 that you are taking this completely out of context.Originally Posted by ozell
Originally Posted by RollTide21
I have given you my thoughts. I do believe you bring confusion. I think you mean well, probably basing your actions on your view of "truth" and how being a friend is "telling us your truth", and so on. I have heard it preached, and in an effective, albeit hurtful, manner.Originally Posted by ozell
So, I'll stick with rightly dividing Scripture for correct doctrine.
I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.
The Protestants, of course. But seriously, the RCC (and Greek Orthodox as well) have become so stilted that at the time of the Reformation people were aghast that someone would translate the Bible out of dead languages that people couldn't understand into the language of the people - "vulgar" languages they were called. It happened to the English, the French and the Germans. That is what the Reformation was about first: the Word of God. And should we base our theology on the Word alone, or upon what people (leaders in "the Church of God") say? Only Protestants say that we should rely upon the Word alone. SOLA SCRIPTURA
The (Protestant) Reformation was also based on "grace alone" and "faith alone" (the basis of the gospel - justification), but the place of scripture as an authority was primary in the division that arose. Incidentally, Luther did not want to separate from the RCC, but to "reform" it. Unfortunately, the RCC at the time would have no part in it.
Greek Orthodox churches also looks to traditions, and the authority of men over that of, and in addition to, scripture. If you have been to a Greek Orthodox (I visited some in 2003 in St. Petersburg - a form of Greek Orthodox) service, it is all ritual. They focus upon icons. A relationship with the living God is not what it is about. The RCC today has grown much since the days of the Reformation, granted. But this should be a no-brainer. IMO the Greek Orthodox and those related to it have wandered farther from the truth than the Roman Catholic Church.
I hope I didn't offend anyone, but there are times when we need to just lay the cards out on the table. This is not a "my dad is better than your dad" kind of discussion. It's about the truth - and the authority of the Word of God. Make no bones about this: only Protestantism relies solely upon the Bible for its authority. Someone might want to start a thread on that: "What is the basis for truth?" I say it is God's Word alone. I am very interested in what men of God said, as led by God, down through the ages. But my doctrine must be based upon God's Word alone. That is the only standard. Anything else is highly dangerous and unbiblical.
3 John 4 - "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my [spiritual] children walk in the truth.
The pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church so says St. Paul. The way we test the spirit of truth from the spirit of error is whether or not that teaching agrees with that Church so says St. John.
One of the marks that identify which Church is this Church founded by Jesus Christ on earth for the salvation of souls is that by neseccity it must be 2,000 years old and traceable back to the very moment 2,000 years ago when He commissioned the Apostles to teach by His authority to all nations in His name and to who Jesus himself promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead into all truth and who promised to those very apostles that He himself would be with them always till the end of the age.
Let me back up, and start where I should have... (wanted to).
Let me start by saying that I am willing to admit MY doctrine is not correct.
Yes, I said it. Now, I am not aware of how... but the Lord has been faithful to instruct me since I came to Him...
... I can look back at the things He shows me and am very much aware that I am a work in progress.
I DO desire that scripture would be my doctrine... I can go into some of the errors and shortcomings I see in men's systems...
but that would not be profitable.
Maybe if we can all admit to not having everything settled, and not knowing everything we might be able to seek and to
learn together more effectively.
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