Whose doctrine is correct?

[BroRog]

I have no idea who's doctrine is correct.

I've heard all the assurances that God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/Scripture is the source of correct doctrine, but that seems like moving the problem to me. I'll illustrate with an example:
"Is sabbath adherence mandatory, and exclusive to Saturdays"? Party A states that God/scripture/holy spirit says yes. Party B states that God/scripture/holy spirit says no. What did God/scripture/holy spirit actually say?

No matter how dearly doctrines are held, there is always always ALWAYS a layer of human interpretation to any doctrine. The real trick is figuring out if the given human interpretation is correct or not. So far as I can tell, this is an exercise in absolute hopelessness.

I think you and I both can benefit from a dose of Thomas Reid. As soon as I get my own place again, I think I will check out his books from the library. I've been meaning to do this for awhile and this thread is pushing me in that direction. I don't think it's hopeless to come to a knowledge of the truth. It may be hopeless to convince others though. The jury is out on that one.

[Butch5]

As Christians, servant of the Most High God Jesus, We find ourselves fellowshipping with many denominations and doctrine concerning Jesus.

have you ask ever ask yourself which or whose doctrine is correct?

we have the Roman Catholic Church
we have the many Protestant Church
we have the many Orthodox church

all claim to be correct, all have different doctrines and different methods to salvation.

who is correct?

Jesus said

Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Paul said another Jesus will be preached

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him

who is preaching another Jesus and who is coming int he name of Jesus decieving many?

I don't want to argue or bring confusion I just want to know your thoughts and why.

peace in Jesus

All three are wrong.

[Dani H]

Is Jesus going to judge us on correct doctrine, or correct living and treating others and loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves?

The person with the correct doctrine is the person who loves like Jesus loved cause they're the ones that actually "get it".

Course that's just my personal opinion but I haven't seen any actual living, walking proof beyond this one thing, so there you have it.

[HisLeast]

I think you and I both can benefit from a dose of Thomas Reid. As soon as I get my own place again, I think I will check out his books from the library. I've been meaning to do this for awhile and this thread is pushing me in that direction. I don't think it's hopeless to come to a knowledge of the truth. It may be hopeless to convince others though. The jury is out on that one.

Wow... I just read a wikipedia entry on his Theory of Common Sense and it was like getting punched in the face by an idea I've felt intently but had no words to express.

[BroRog]

Wow... I just read a wikipedia entry on his Theory of Common Sense and it was like getting punched in the face by an idea I've felt intently but had no words to express.

uuhhhh .... I hope it was a good punch?

[watchinginawe]

As Christians, servant of the Most High God Jesus, We find ourselves fellowshipping with many denominations and doctrine concerning Jesus.

have you ask ever ask yourself which or whose doctrine is correct?

we have the Roman Catholic Church
we have the many Protestant Church
we have the many Orthodox church

all claim to be correct, all have different doctrines and different methods to salvation.

who is correct?

Of those three, I'll go with Protestantism. Why?

First, I will agree with you that it is important to not be deceived. Deception is a significant theme of the New Testament and we are clearly warned, especially in regards to the last days (which we surely are in), to be on the alert. Second, I also agree with you that it makes a difference. Being deceived will certainly result in an improper relationship with the Lord, or even worse in destruction.

I don't believe that today one can absolve themselves of responsibility by claiming the following:

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

If there is "another Jesus" preached, he exists only because of the one preaching him. Following what a false apostle claims to be the gospel is a dangerous thing. There is probably more about false teachers than false Jesus' in the New Testament. So continuing religiously and stedfastly in fellowship with a particular man or a particular Church or an exclusive set of teachings (a particular doctrine) might seem right but significantly miss the mark.

If we believe that we should and can still today continue "stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship" as in the first century, then we are going to come up with some problems too. For example, the one's who most claim this doctrine somehow famously leave off Spiritual gifts. They believe the presence of them had to do with the presence of the apostles and thus now we no longer have them, they were left in the first century.

For me, Protestantism's foundations are wise and correct. They point us to the correct source for correct doctrine, Scripture. Grace, faith, Jesus; as found and taught in Scripture; applied to today. Though I might consult Martin Luther, he would be sure to direct me to the scriptures.

So the key is in rightly dividing Scripture. Impossible task? Surely the enterprise is worth pursuing, even if we don't all come to the same conclusions.

Jesus said

Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

ozell, what exactly are you declaring here? I agree with RollTide21 that you are taking this completely out of context.

Your references in Matthew refer to false prophets claiming that Jesus of Nazareth is not the Christ. With all of the doctrinal differences I have seen, I have not yet seen ANY on this board or in the Christian churches that I am aware of who reject Jesus as the Christ.

Paul said another Jesus will be preached

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him

who is preaching another Jesus and who is coming int he name of Jesus decieving many?

I don't want to argue or bring confusion I just want to know your thoughts and why.

peace in Jesus

I have given you my thoughts. I do believe you bring confusion. I think you mean well, probably basing your actions on your view of "truth" and how being a friend is "telling us your truth", and so on. I have heard it preached, and in an effective, albeit hurtful, manner.

So, I'll stick with rightly dividing Scripture for correct doctrine.

[BadDog]

The Protestants, of course. But seriously, the RCC (and Greek Orthodox as well) have become so stilted that at the time of the Reformation people were aghast that someone would translate the Bible out of dead languages that people couldn't understand into the language of the people - "vulgar" languages they were called. It happened to the English, the French and the Germans. That is what the Reformation was about first: the Word of God. And should we base our theology on the Word alone, or upon what people (leaders in "the Church of God") say? Only Protestants say that we should rely upon the Word alone. SOLA SCRIPTURA

The (Protestant) Reformation was also based on "grace alone" and "faith alone" (the basis of the gospel - justification), but the place of scripture as an authority was primary in the division that arose. Incidentally, Luther did not want to separate from the RCC, but to "reform" it. Unfortunately, the RCC at the time would have no part in it.

Greek Orthodox churches also looks to traditions, and the authority of men over that of, and in addition to, scripture. If you have been to a Greek Orthodox (I visited some in 2003 in St. Petersburg - a form of Greek Orthodox) service, it is all ritual. They focus upon icons. A relationship with the living God is not what it is about. The RCC today has grown much since the days of the Reformation, granted. But this should be a no-brainer. IMO the Greek Orthodox and those related to it have wandered farther from the truth than the Roman Catholic Church.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, but there are times when we need to just lay the cards out on the table. This is not a "my dad is better than your dad" kind of discussion. It's about the truth - and the authority of the Word of God. Make no bones about this: only Protestantism relies solely upon the Bible for its authority. Someone might want to start a thread on that: "What is the basis for truth?" I say it is God's Word alone. I am very interested in what men of God said, as led by God, down through the ages. But my doctrine must be based upon God's Word alone. That is the only standard. Anything else is highly dangerous and unbiblical.

BD

[one_lost_coin]

The pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church so says St. Paul. The way we test the spirit of truth from the spirit of error is whether or not that teaching agrees with that Church so says St. John.

One of the marks that identify which Church is this Church founded by Jesus Christ on earth for the salvation of souls is that by neseccity it must be 2,000 years old and traceable back to the very moment 2,000 years ago when He commissioned the Apostles to teach by His authority to all nations in His name and to who Jesus himself promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead into all truth and who promised to those very apostles that He himself would be with them always till the end of the age.

[Amos_with_goats]

Let me back up, and start where I should have... (wanted to).

Let me start by saying that I am willing to admit MY doctrine is not correct.

Yes, I said it. Now, I am not aware of how... but the Lord has been faithful to instruct me since I came to Him...

... I can look back at the things He shows me and am very much aware that I am a work in progress.


I DO desire that scripture would be my doctrine... I can go into some of the errors and shortcomings I see in men's systems...
but that would not be profitable.

Maybe if we can all admit to not having everything settled, and not knowing everything we might be able to seek and to
learn together more effectively.

Amen?

My desire is that my doctrine is scripture. I would say the 'whole counsel' but that might cause an argument...

I want to read from the Word, not Calvin, Luther, John Paul II, or Tim LaHaye.... or any other man.*



*Note, just because I mentioned some names as examples... I am not pastor bashing or any such foolishness...

[The Mighty Sword]

Let me back up, and start where I should have... (wanted to).

Let me start by saying that I am willing to admit MY doctrine is not correct.

Yes, I said it. Now, I am not aware of how... but the Lord has been faithful to instruct me since I came to Him...

... I can look back at the things He shows me and am very much aware that I am a work in progress.


I DO desire that scripture would be my doctrine... I can go into some of the errors and shortcomings I see in men's systems...
but that would not be profitable.

Maybe if we can all admit to not having everything settled, and not knowing everything we might be able to seek and to
learn together more effectively.

Amen?

I agree with you brother.

[notuptome]

The pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church so says St. Paul. The way we test the spirit of truth from the spirit of error is whether or not that teaching agrees with that Church so says St. John.

One of the marks that identify which Church is this Church founded by Jesus Christ on earth for the salvation of souls is that by neseccity it must be 2,000 years old and traceable back to the very moment 2,000 years ago when He commissioned the Apostles to teach by His authority to all nations in His name and to who Jesus himself promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead into all truth and who promised to those very apostles that He himself would be with them always till the end of the age.

This goes beyond words. The church was not founded for the salvation of souls. Jesus died on Calvary to save souls from the penalty of sin. This was ordained before the foundation of the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[ozell]

God is correct.

There is room for our personal convictions though, assuming we don't beat others over the head with them.

Read Romans 14.

we know God is correct, but we live in a world where the denominations I listed say there way is the path to the Lord

[ozell]

The Doctrine of Jesus Christ of course.

Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Mark 1:27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine [is] this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

Luke 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

Everything else is just "in addition to" which isn't always GOD breathed.

amen

do you belong to one of these Great Houses?

is you understanding of God's word from these great houses?

[keck553]

we know God is correct, but we live in a world where the denominations I listed say there way is the path to the Lord

I have not heard any Protestant say that being a Protestant is the path to the LORD. I do not think Catholics take this exclusivity either.

No religion is a path to the LORD. God saves, not religion, and He could care less about the human factor.

[ozell]

My desire is that my doctrine is scripture. I would say the 'whole counsel' but that might cause an argument...

I want to read from the Word, not Calvin, Luther, John Paul II, or Tim LaHaye.... or any other man.*


*Note, just because I mentioned some names as examples... I am not pastor bashing or any such foolishness...

amen

I don't want to go there on the pastors that is another subject.

but we do have these 3 great houses teaching about Jesus and his words.