Once saved, always saved?

[Gadgeteer]

There is no option to believe once for all time. It requires a continued faith and faithfulness on our part to inherit an eternal salvation. Again you are not understanding grace. watch here...the bible translates itself...

1 Peter in 1:4-5, "Protected by the power of God (grace) THROUGH FAITH for a salvation ready to be revealed in the end time"...

See here we are saved by the power of God through faith. We could also say...we are saved by grace (the power of God) through faith (faithfulness). And we see here that the eternal salvation is at the end.

There is a saying "two great minds think alike". But here, we quote the same Scriptures, because we study the same Bible.

No offense meant to anyone else, who also studies the same Bible; but perhaps there are verses that have not been recognized in consideration, or not seen in the same light. Thus the value of "seeing through others' eyes".

With all my heart I pray that I walk close to God, that those who see through my eyes will be blessed and encouraged towards Him, and not misled.

:-)

[Gadgeteer]

Sanctification is the process, not justification. Fear and trembling is in reverance to God, not fear of going to hell if we don't live a sinless perfect life, which we won't. Paul has already mentioned assurance of salvation for those who are saved (Romans 8:30; Ephesians 1:14)

Paul very much opposes "assurance of salvation".

"Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; PERSEVERE in these things; as you do you will save yourselves." 1Tim4:16.

And same chapter verse 1, some will wander away from the faith by being deceived by deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

See Philippians --- verses 1:9-10, a prayer for us to continue in salvation; and 2:16, Paul judging his own success in terms of how his followers persevere.

I can quote dozens of Pauline statements which affirm the very real risk of falling; see 2Cor11:3, where we're at the same risk of deception away from Jesus, as Eve was from God in the Garden!

[episkopos]

There is a saying "two great minds think alike". But here, we quote the same Scriptures, because we study the same Bible.

No offense meant to anyone else, who also studies the same Bible; but perhaps there are verses that have not been recognized in consideration, or not seen in the same light. Thus the value of "seeing through others' eyes".

With all my heart I pray that I walk close to God, that those who see through my eyes will be blessed and encouraged towards Him, and not misled.



:-)

No offense to anyone as well, but you and eyelog are making me rejoice! I'm thankful to God that you have joined the forum.

[Gadgeteer]

No offense to anyone as well, but you and eyelog are making me rejoice! I'm thankful to God that you have joined the forum.

Now you did it --- you made me smile!

Know that you are a blessing to me (and others!) as well.

[Eyelog]

Please look at what Peter said in 2:1:5-11. I hate translations that say "add to your faith", as if there's a saved faith without godly attributes. They're not optional --- he who LACKS those fruits has forgotten purification from former sins! Such a man WAS purified (saved!), but now he is ungodly/immoral/ignorant/uncontrolled/unloving/unkind; he is saved no longer!

So, you're 100% right; true salvation will HAVE the good fruits. Well, all I can say, is "amen".
Ahhh, here we diverge; have you read the "if-you-continue" verses? Such as Hebrews3:6 and 14. Then there's Col1:21-23, and 1Cor15:2. All of those say "saved if you CONTINUE..."

Do a search on "blameless"; as in, being found blameless by Jesus when He returns. You'll see Philip2:15, Col1:23, 2Pet3:14, and Jude24. In each of those passages, blamelessness is our full and constant choice. (Jude 24, because of the context of 20-21!). Really, 1Jn2:26-28 is another, because "shrink-in-shame at His coming" is very much at odds with "being-found-blameless". There's a prayer by Paul for us to CONTINUE in salvation, IN ORDER TO BE blameless, in Philip1:9-10!

Do a search on diligence; you'll find it in 2Pet1:5-11 (and 3:14), Heb10:36 and 6:11 and 4:11, and it is really what Paul admonishes in 1Tim4:16. In all of those "continue-in-salvation", is plainly in view.
Interesting smilies here! :-)

... we differ but little.

I'm not sure what you are saying, but it sounds like one or more of these:

(1) If a believer is ever, even for an instant,

(a) "ungodly/immoral/ignorant/uncontrolled/unloving/unkind"

or (b) not "continuing in" trust in Christ or the Gospel,

then "he is saved no longer!"


OR

(2) If a believer

(a) seeks with all their heart, soul, mind and strength to love God and the brethren in godliness, morality, knowledge, self-control, kindnes, mercy, long suffering, patience, goodness, love and all the fruit,

but (b) sins in various ways anyway

and (c) never seeks forgiveness for their post-regeneration sins

then they will not be "blameless" at His coming in spite of their attempts to continue in Him.

OR

(3) If a believer backslides for some time, not only sinning and bearing fruit of the flesh, but not trusting in Him, and then repents and seeks forgiveness

then not only is he "saved no longer!" but he cannot be saved.

Is it one of those, all of those, none of those, or what?

[Eyelog]

There is no option to believe once for all time. It requires a continued faith and faithfulness on our part to inherit an eternal salvation. Again you are not understanding grace. watch here...the bible translates itself...

1 Peter in 1:4-5, "Protected by the power of God (grace) THROUGH FAITH for a salvation ready to be revealed in the end time"...

See here we are saved by the power of God through faith. We could also say...we are saved by grace (the power of God) through faith (faithfulness). And we see here that the eternal salvation is at the end.

Epi and Gad, do you accept the concept of positional justification/sanctifcation/propitiation, which means we have attained to it in Christ, but we have to wait to recive it as our inheritance when He comes?

Then, do you accept the concept of practical sanctification in this lifetime, in wihc we can improve our own character and earn treasure in heaven, bot be judged for worthiness at His coming, which what is real, true good and loving surviving for eternity future and the rest burning up?

Then, do you accept the idea our ultimate glorifcation and receiving of the glorified body and the inheritance and the adoption in a final way when he actually does come, it having been only promised but waiting for us in heaven until He would come?

do you accept the idea that during our lifetime we can forfeit our gifts and even our inheritance we had otherwise positioinally attained?

But do you accept the idea that so long as we continue to walk in Him, trusting in his Gospel, seeking to do good as He lead in Scripyture and by His spirit, keeping short accounts of forgivess with him, that we will indeed recieve that inheritance, which is kept s4ecure for those who continue in Him in that way?

[glad4mercy]

Is once saved, always saved, also known as eternal security, true or not? I believe it is true.

I do not subscribe to the once saved always saved teaching. I do not know if the Bible fully answers the question as to whether a person who is truly saved can or cannot lose their eternal salvation. I do believe that the believer is secure in Christ, and they cannot be lost as long as they are abiding in Him. God is the one who keeps, guards, and preserves us, but we must abide in Him.

I don't think we should be asking "Can I lose my salvation?". I think a better question is " How can I live in the fullness of the salvation that God has given me?" If we're abiding in Christ by faith yet we are worried about falling away, we are not having confidence in God's power to keep. Conversely, if we're not abiding in Christ, yet thinking we are once saved always saved in spite of our disobedience, we are being presumptious.

Adendum- When we speak of abiding in Christ, it is important to remember that abiding in Christ is an active obedience and forward going faith, not sitting still but actively seeking Christ on a daily basis. Our natures can be fickle, and if we are prone to grow cold if we do not stay near to Christ, or if we do not participate in fellowship with God and other believers. We seek Christ because we hunger for Him and for His Righteousness, a sign of true conversion. and spiritual health

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Peter 1:5- Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2 Peter 1: 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure[/B]: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

[episkopos]

Epi and Gad, do you accept the concept of positional justification/sanctifcation/propitiation, which means we have attained to it in Christ, but we have to wait to recive it as our inheritance when He comes?

I don't go for the positional explanation of what is actually available to be experienced and lived right now! If we are truly seated in heavenly places, then we see differently from other humans who are limited to the animal type of sight.

Then, do you accept the concept of practical sanctification in this lifetime, in wihc we can improve our own character and earn treasure in heaven, bot be judged for worthiness at His coming, which what is real, true good and loving surviving for eternity future and the rest burning up?

Yes! We are meant to be converted in our characters. That is the purpose of the sanctifying grace we have received.

Then, do you accept the idea our ultimate glorifcation and receiving of the glorified body and the inheritance and the adoption in a final way when he actually does come, it having been only promised but waiting for us in heaven until He would come?

Yes!~

do you accept the idea that during our lifetime we can forfeit our gifts and even our inheritance we had otherwise positioinally attained?

If we endure to the end we will be saved. What God has imputed to us He wants to impart to us. It depends on how much character of Christ we have attained.

But do you accept the idea that so long as we continue to walk in Him, trusting in his Gospel, seeking to do good as He lead in Scripyture and by His spirit, keeping short accounts of forgivess with him, that we will indeed recieve that inheritance, which is kept s4ecure for those who continue in Him in that way?

Yes! God has a place for those who persevere and remain humble in spite of what we may have seen and experienced. A good test of Christian character....if you walked on water, could you keep it a secret?

[Gadgeteer]

I'm not sure what you are saying, but it sounds like one or more of these:

Hi, "Eyelog"! Would you be willing to interact with the verses cited? What do they mean to you?

(1) If a believer is ever, even for an instant,

(a) "ungodly/immoral/ignorant/uncontrolled/unloving/unkind"

or (b) not "continuing in" trust in Christ or the Gospel,

then "he is saved no longer!"

No, not at all. Recognize there are only two "real-estates" --- in Christ, or in sin.

Paul writes "anyone in Christ is a new creation; the old is passing away, all has become new". Yet --- Paul also writes, "Lay aside the old man, put on the new man; be renewed in the spirit of your mind." (2Cor5:17, Eph4:22-24.) Paul said in 1Cor10:12-13 that we constantly face the choice to sin, which God permits. After we sin, we're still faced with the same choice --- sin again, or repent and throw ourselves back at Christ's feet. It is not the sin that threatens our position, it is the again. THIS is what Heb10:26-29 asserts, if we begin to practice sin, then we are no longer walking in Christ.

John is pragmatic in 1:1:8-9; if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves; but if we confess and repent, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. There is a Universe of difference between a Christ-filled Spirit-filled Christian who occasionally sins, but walks in repentance, and one who walks in sin and not in repentance.

We the saved, are not sinless; but we very much sin LESS.

OR

(2) If a believer

(a) seeks with all their heart, soul, mind and strength to love God and the brethren in godliness, morality, knowledge, self-control, kindnes, mercy, long suffering, patience, goodness, love and all the fruit,

but (b) sins in various ways anyway

and (c) never seeks forgiveness for their post-regeneration sins

then they will not be "blameless" at His coming in spite of their attempts to continue in Him.

No, that's a contradiction; he (she?) who seeks with all their heart soul mind and strength (etcetera), will NOT walk in unrepentance. Those two positions are mutually exclusive.

Recognize that true belief IS desiring righteousness, and it is walking in Christ. This is what James strove to teach especially in chapter 2.

OR

(3) If a believer backslides for some time, not only sinning and bearing fruit of the flesh, but not trusting in Him, and then repents and seeks forgiveness

then not only is he "saved no longer!" but he cannot be saved.

Is it one of those, all of those, none of those, or what?

The concept of "backslidden-but-saved", is Gnosticism (Antinomianism). Because salvation is "Christ-in-you", walking in sin means that Christ is NOT indwelling the person, because Jesus will not participate in willful sin.

If one repents and returns, then that reflects what James said in 5:19-20, such a one will be restored to salvation. It is what Paul wrote in Romans11:23, they will be grafted in again if they do not continue in unbelief (continue in sin!). Please see the whole context of Romans11:18-23; it is arrogant to think we cannot be cut off for unbelief.

"Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity; to you, God's kindness, if you CONTINUE in His kindness else you also will be cut off. And they too, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in again..."

Hebrews6:4-6 is so often misunderstood to mean "they cannot get back" --- that's not the message at all; it simply says they are unable to be restored to repentance WHILE they are falling away and engaging in constant sin (which would be as if Jesus had to be crucified to them over and over again, contempting His gracious gift!).

Epi and Gad, do you accept the concept of positional justification/sanctifcation/propitiation, which means we have attained to it in Christ, but we have to wait to recive it as our inheritance when He comes?

If you're including the concept of "righteousness", meaning that righteousness is imputed on top of our corrupt flesh, then please recognize that is 100% Gnosticism --- "the flesh is corrupt and sinful but the SPIRIT is saved". Plenty of Scriptures very clearly say "those who practice these (sinful things), SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God". 1Cor6:9-11, Eph5:5-6, and Gal5:19-21 say exactly that. Include 1Jn3:5-10 (John was writing against Gnosticism!), and in no way can one be saved in SPIRIT while walking in his flesh in sin. It is as Paul said in Rom8:12-14, if we walk after the lusts of the flesh we must die.

Then, do you accept the concept of practical sanctification in this lifetime, in which we can improve our own character and earn treasure in heaven, but be judged for worthiness at His coming, which what is real, true good and loving surviving for eternity future and the rest burning up?

The entire issue is "where are we in Christ?". The closer we walk in fellowship with Him, the more His heart becomes ours, and the more His righteousness also becomes ours. And THAT is what was admonished in Hebrews5-6; maturity in Christ, not spending all our time preaching repentance.

Then, do you accept the idea our ultimate glorification and receiving of the glorified body and the inheritance and the adoption in a final way when he actually does come, it having been only promised but waiting for us in heaven until He would come?

Yes; until that time, we still struggle with weak flesh. In every case where we're admonished to stand in Him and resist sin, it is by the power of the SPIRIT that we prevail.

His power, our faith.

do you accept the idea that during our lifetime we can forfeit our gifts and even our inheritance we had otherwise positionally attained?

Look at Rom11:29 --- the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable (without repentance). Irrevocable? Does that mean we cannot throw the gift away? No! It means from GOD'S side HE will not revoke the gift He has given; it says nothing about OUR side.

Indeed, look at 2Tim2:11-13 --- two positions are clearly in view, "died/endure and live/reign with Him", set opposed to "deny-Him/faithless" (and He will deny us before God, though HE remains faithful). In no way can "denied-before-God" be seen as "still saved" (see Matt10:33!). So verse 11-12a is "saved", but verse 12b-13 is "not".

Yes, we can forfeit salvation. Please read Hebrews10:35 --- "Do not throw away your confidence". If we connect that with Hebrews10:19, and 6:19, Jesus is our confidence; "do not throw away JESUS"!

But do you accept the idea that so long as we continue to walk in Him, trusting in his Gospel, seeking to do good as He lead in Scripture and by His spirit, keeping short accounts of forgivess with him, that we will indeed recieve that inheritance, which is kept secure for those who continue in Him in that way?

Yes. It's a constant walk, seeking His power and righteousness. It is as Paul said in 2Tim1:12-14, "God guards what we entrust to Him, and we guard by the Holy Spirit who indwells us the treasure (of eternal life!) that God entrusts to us!"

[Gadgeteer]

I do not subscribe to the once saved always saved teaching. I do not know if the Bible fully answers the question as to whether a person who is truly saved can or cannot lose their eternal salvation.

Oh! Oh! I do!!! :-D

(You all do know I have an ornery sense of humor and love to tease, don't you???)

I do believe that the believer is secure in Christ, and they cannot be lost as long as they are abiding in Him. God is the one who keeps, guards, and preserves us, but we must abide in Him.

Amen --- couldn't have said it better. And I can give you supporting Scripture. (See 1Jn2:26-28, 2Tim1:12-14.)

I don't think we should be asking "Can I lose my salvation?". I think a better question is " How can I live in the fullness of the salvation that God has given me?" If we're abiding in Christ by faith yet we are worried about falling away, we are not having confidence in God's power to keep. Conversely, if we're not abiding in Christ, yet thinking we are once saved always saved in spite of our disobedience, we are being presumptuous.

This is an extremely honorable and valid position. Why worry about what He wrought completely and sufficiently on the Cross? We add NOTHING to His sacrifice, we merit NOTHING of His grace; He gave it out of love, to whomever will love Him back and will receive Him.

You have a gift of words. Jesus is our confidence, that enters within the veil; do not throw away your confidence. Hebrews6:19, 10:19, and 10:35!!!

Adendum- When we speak of abiding in Christ, it is important to remember that abiding in Christ is an active obedience and forward going faith, not sitting still but actively seeking Christ on a daily basis. Our natures can be fickle, and if we are prone to grow cold if we do not stay near to Christ, or if we do not participate in fellowship with God and other believers. We seek Christ because we hunger for Him and for His Righteousness, a sign of true conversion. and spiritual health

Amen! :-)

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

"Pluck" is "harpazo", seize or remove forcibly.

1 Peter 1:5- Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Right; and verse 9 says "receive as the outcome of YOUR FAITH salvation"...

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

And that in context with "build yourselves in holy faith, keep yourselves in the love of God". (Jude1:20-21.)

2 Peter 1: 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure[/B]: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Recognize that "fall" (which other translations render "stumble"), is "ptaio", become wretched. The next verse says "in THIS way the very gates to God's kingdom will be abundantly provided to you."

I've heard some argue that "abundant" is for the righteous (those who have the godly fruits), and "non-abundant" (sparse!) entrance to Heaven is for those who do NOT have the godly fruits, those who are WICKED.

Uh, huh. I don't think so; I have it on good authority that the wicked shall not enter His kingdom at all! It is an abundant entrance, or NONE!

Very excellent post!

[mailmandan]

In Revelation 20, (And in Rom2:6-8), we are judged (and granted eternal life or wrath) according to our deeds.

I'll reply to your long posts when I get the chance. In Revelation 20 and Romans 2:6-8, what is the real basis of why we are either granted eternal life or wrath? He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, (John 3:18)

But you're right, it's not the DEEDS that save us (being good deeds), nor are they evil deeds that condemn us; the deeds expose whether our heart was saved. If we had good deeds, then we expose a heart that belonged to Christ; but if we practiced evil deeds, then we are exposed as having belonged to the darkness. Thus are the "sheep" separated from the "goats".

Amen! and again I say, Amen! I hope that episkopos read that and I wonder if he agrees with that statement or if he believes that it is the DEEDS that actually save us.

"Inasmuch as you've done it to the least of My brethren, you've done it to Me."

Notice that ALL the saved are described as such and in Romans 2:6-8, ALL the saved are described as, "by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality" and ALL the lost are described as, "but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness." Like you said, If we had good deeds, then we expose a heart that belonged to Christ; but if we practiced evil deeds, then we are exposed as having belonged to the darkness. Thus are the "sheep" separated from the "goats". Do you agree episkopos?

[mailmandan]

There is no option to believe once for all time. It requires a continued faith and faithfulness on our part to inherit an eternal salvation. Again you are not understanding grace. watch here...the bible translates itself...

1 Peter in 1:4-5, "Protected by the power of God (grace) THROUGH FAITH for a salvation ready to be revealed in the end time"...

See here we are saved by the power of God through faith. We could also say...we are saved by grace (the power of God) through faith (faithfulness). And we see here that the eternal salvation is at the end.

Faith is trusting in Christ for salvation. When you define faith as faithfulness, then you add works to the equation. Salvation is not based on our performance, but on our faith in Jesus Christ. Some Christians will be more faithful in accomplishing good deeds than others, but good deeds are not the basis of our salvation. Glorification is at the end for those who have been justified by faith. (Romans 8:30) We are kept by the power of God, not our power to keep ourselves saved by works.

[episkopos]

Faith is trusting in Christ for salvation. When you define faith as faithfulness, then you add works to the equation. Salvation is not based on our performance, but on our faith in Jesus Christ. Some Christians will be more faithful in accomplishing good deeds than others, but good deeds are not the basis of our salvation. Glorification is at the end for those who have been justified by faith. (Romans 8:30) We are kept by the power of God, not our power to keep ourselves saved by works.

The bible says that it is HOPE that is trusting Christ for salvation! (in the future tense)

We are saved through obedience to the gospel. There is no salvation that does not rely on our continuing faithfulness. We have a choice whether we walk in that power we have received. It is ...His grace (power) ..our faith. We must choose daily. We must take up our cross daily. As Paul said...I die daily. Your viewpoint completely negates this reality so that I wonder what you are talking about when you say "grace". Your viewpoint sounds very gnostic. Where is the reality?

I am talking about good deeds done IN THE POWER OF CHRIST. We are not talking about boy scout deeds. As we abide in HIS power we will do the works of Christ. Our works in His power are works unto salvation. Our works without His power are dead works. As we DO what Christ commands, we show our faithfulness to Him. Only doers will be justified not just "believers". To have faith is to do!!!!!

Imagine seeing a little child on the street with a bus approaching at high speed. We can think...it would be good if I or someone rescued that child. But unless we actually run and help that child the child will die! So thinking about something and doing something are 2 different things. The child cannot be saved by thinking it would be right to save him. No, the child is saved by DOING what our heart tells us. So it is with us. We receive the grace that would make us a saint IF we are faithful ONLY to Christ. But alas, the cares of this world creep in and the potential saintliness goes unrealized. This happens more often that not! and especially in this evil time of unbelief and selfish individualism.

Those who have not yet figured out that we need to help one another EVERY DAY in order to bear a constant fruit for the Lord, have yet to experience the power of God in any depth. We must PRACTICE our faith or lose it. (use it or lose it). We must crucify the flesh or be stuck in it. That is the reality.

[episkopos]

Hi, "Eyelog"! Would you be willing to interact with the verses cited? What do they mean to you?
No, not at all. Recognize there are only two "real-estates" --- in Christ, or in sin.

Paul writes "anyone in Christ is a new creation; the old is passing away, all has become new". Yet --- Paul also writes, "Lay aside the old man, put on the new man; be renewed in the spirit of your mind." (2Cor5:17, Eph4:22-24.) Paul said in 1Cor10:12-13 that we constantly face the choice to sin, which God permits. After we sin, we're still faced with the same choice --- sin again, or repent and throw ourselves back at Christ's feet. It is not the sin that threatens our position, it is the again. THIS is what Heb10:26-29 asserts, if we begin to practice sin, then we are no longer walking in Christ.

John is pragmatic in 1:1:8-9; if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves; but if we confess and repent, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. There is a Universe of difference between a Christ-filled Spirit-filled Christian who occasionally sins, but walks in repentance, and one who walks in sin and not in repentance.

We the saved, are not sinless; but we very much sin LESS.
No, that's a contradiction; he (she?) who seeks with all their heart soul mind and strength (etcetera), will NOT walk in unrepentance. Those two positions are mutually exclusive.

Recognize that true belief IS desiring righteousness, and it is walking in Christ. This is what James strove to teach especially in chapter 2.
The concept of "backslidden-but-saved", is Gnosticism (Antinomianism). Because salvation is "Christ-in-you", walking in sin means that Christ is NOT indwelling the person, because Jesus will not participate in willful sin.

If one repents and returns, then that reflects what James said in 5:19-20, such a one will be restored to salvation. It is what Paul wrote in Romans11:23, they will be grafted in again if they do not continue in unbelief (continue in sin!). Please see the whole context of Romans11:18-23; it is arrogant to think we cannot be cut off for unbelief.

"Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity; to you, God's kindness, if you CONTINUE in His kindness else you also will be cut off. And they too, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in again..."

Hebrews6:4-6 is so often misunderstood to mean "they cannot get back" --- that's not the message at all; it simply says they are unable to be restored to repentance WHILE they are falling away and engaging in constant sin (which would be as if Jesus had to be crucified to them over and over again, contempting His gracious gift!).
If you're including the concept of "righteousness", meaning that righteousness is imputed on top of our corrupt flesh, then please recognize that is 100% Gnosticism --- "the flesh is corrupt and sinful but the SPIRIT is saved". Plenty of Scriptures very clearly say "those who practice these (sinful things), SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God". 1Cor6:9-11, Eph5:5-6, and Gal5:19-21 say exactly that. Include 1Jn3:5-10 (John was writing against Gnosticism!), and in no way can one be saved in SPIRIT while walking in his flesh in sin. It is as Paul said in Rom8:12-14, if we walk after the lusts of the flesh we must die.
The entire issue is "where are we in Christ?". The closer we walk in fellowship with Him, the more His heart becomes ours, and the more His righteousness also becomes ours. And THAT is what was admonished in Hebrews5-6; maturity in Christ, not spending all our time preaching repentance.
Yes; until that time, we still struggle with weak flesh. In every case where we're admonished to stand in Him and resist sin, it is by the power of the SPIRIT that we prevail.

His power, our faith.
Look at Rom11:29 --- the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable (without repentance). Irrevocable? Does that mean we cannot throw the gift away? No! It means from GOD'S side HE will not revoke the gift He has given; it says nothing about OUR side.

Indeed, look at 2Tim2:11-13 --- two positions are clearly in view, "died/endure and live/reign with Him", set opposed to "deny-Him/faithless" (and He will deny us before God, though HE remains faithful). In no way can "denied-before-God" be seen as "still saved" (see Matt10:33!). So verse 11-12a is "saved", but verse 12b-13 is "not".

Yes, we can forfeit salvation. Please read Hebrews10:35 --- "Do not throw away your confidence". If we connect that with Hebrews10:19, and 6:19, Jesus is our confidence; "do not throw away JESUS"!Yes. It's a constant walk, seeking His power and righteousness. It is as Paul said in 2Tim1:12-14, "God guards what we entrust to Him, and we guard by the Holy Spirit who indwells us the treasure (of eternal life!) that God entrusts to us!"

An excellent post!!!

[episkopos]

But you're right, it's not the DEEDS that save us (being good deeds), nor are they evil deeds that condemn us; the deeds expose whether our heart was saved. If we had good deeds, then we expose a heart that belonged to Christ; but if we practiced evil deeds, then we are exposed as having belonged to the darkness. Thus are the "sheep" separated from the "goats".

Amen! and again I say, Amen! I hope that episkopos read that and I wonder if he agrees with that statement or if he believes that it is the DEEDS that actually save us. (Mailmandan)

My response:

How can one be faithful without deeds? Most (almost all) Christians spend sunday repenting of what they have been doing all week (weak). What saves us is RESPONDING to the call of Christ....mental assent or holding a doctrinal position means nothing unless one MOVES and does something about the call.

We are called on to repent, seek, ask, knock, be diligent, do what is right, be obedient, persevere...etc. That is something we DO. Not just agree with.

If I am starving and I am given bread as a gift...that gift is useless unless I eat it. So the saving part is not just being given bread.

There is a story of a young boy in the Warsaw ghetto who cried with hunger all night in the street until someone threw a piece of bread to him. The next morning they found the boy dead while trying to reach for the bread. He hadn't the strength to reach it, so he died.

That sums up the plight of most of us in the rich western world. But with us, it is spiritual slackness.

Prov. 26:15 "The sluggard buries his hand in the dish. He is too lazy to bring it back to his mouth."