Once saved, always saved?

[Gadgeteer]

There are different types of sins G. For instance, there is the unintentional sin. Then there is the intentional sin, i.e. I know what I am doing, but I am going to do it anyway. That is rebellion. Defiance, IMO, is when we sin because we want to sin against God. For instance, a child no longer wants authority over him so he sins BECAUSE the authority is over him and AGAINST the authority.

Mark, the essence of salvation is "CHRIST-IN-YOU" (and "filled with the Holy Spirit"). If we commit an unintentional sin (which arguably is not possible, ALL sin is sin --- "he who knows what is right and does not do it, to him it is sin" James4:17), it still separates us from Jesus, unless we repent. (Lk13:3.)

Defiance, IMO, is far worse than intentional or an unintentional sin. That's why the OT makes a distinction in those areas and speaks about the defiant soul being cut off.

Is there really a difference? We are either "in Christ", or not; there is no middle-ground or "Twilight Zone".

I didn't respond to the rest of your post because I don't think we'll agree on it. But that's OK. Right?

No one has to discuss anything, I very much appreciate the thoughts you have posted. :-)

Still, I hope you'll recognize that the label reflects the action, established in Luke8:13-15 with the undeniable connection to Heb6:7-8. And that there is no reason that the exact same words between two adjacent chapters hafta mean the same thing ("escaped defilements/corruption true-knowledge Lord Savior Jesus"). And (third point) that works are the consequence of faith, they necessarily follow salvation but are not part of becoming saved.

Do we agree on these three things?

But that is not what God said in the garden. Nor is it what satan said. Neither of them talked about the "again". It was about the first sin.

The temptation was to be "deceived-away-from-God".

That's why I don't buy the "same lie as Satan in the garden" argument.

Ahhh, it's not what YOU say, nor what _I_ say --- Paul said:

"I worry, that as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, YOUR minds should ALSO be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ!" 2Cor11:3.

If the OSAS is teaching that lie then so is everyone who says that you can sin and still be alive, IMO.

But that is what all three OSAS positions teach --- "you can sin, but you will not die". One denies that sin damages our souls, the second denies that we can continue in sin long enough to stray from Christ, and the third presumes that GOD will keep us from sinning (preserve us).

The problem is, we see where Israel sinned repeatedly in the wilderness, in their nationhood, and yet, God still called them His people. I don't buy that repeated sin causes one to lose his salvation either. When did Israel finally get cut off? When he put them into captivity, He still said he had a plan for them and that they were His! So even after 470 years of rebellion, they were still God's people.

Let's agree that two "Entered Rests" are spoken of, the second is "eternal life". The comparison is made between the two, in Hebrews4:11 --- this connects with Heb3:18-19 (where Israel did not enter their rest because of disobedience and unbelief), then he warns us not to "fall and fail to enter GOD'S rest by IMITATING their disobedience and unbelief".

The first "rest" was the Promised Land, on Earth; the second "rest" is eternal life. Yes they were God's people --- but there is a Universe of difference between "God's children", and "children-of-God".

...betchya we agree on that too... ;-)

[Brother Mark]

I agree and it's all in the direction a person has CHOSEN to be facing when they die physically. Since we can't die in the next moment, it seems that a Christian should NEVER allow themselves to turn away from the truth at ANY time in their life once in Christ. Yet some do... as I mentioned in this thread, some of the greatest testimonies are of people who accepted Christ and then fell away and later chose to FACE back away from death and back to life in Christ. If they had died while facing death... then they'd be judged that way, not the way a Christian should be judged before God as one who is expected to have "faced" God for the entirety of their walk with Christ.

Slug, you are my friend and we go back a long way. So I am glad we are having this discussion. I've been on both sides of this fence. And I really enjoy reading what you write. Having said that, I don't agree.

I see Israel as a type of a saved person. Were they lost in the wilderness when they tested God 3 times? Did God ever stop claiming them as his own? I know he got angry, frustrated, etc. At one point he even told Moses "these people whom YOU brought out of Egypt" and I laugh at that. But in the end, when did God cut off Israel? How much did he put up with them? How long did he call them his own?

God will keep all who have chosen to accept Christ... all they have to do is endure and overcome during the entirety of that walk until they die. Any who stray away, Jesus will go after them but some continue to move away from Him as they choose to face death over life in Christ. God has told even the Body of Christ to CHASE those runners down and face them back to Him so their souls will be saved.

If chasing them didn't need to be done, then the Bible would NEVER explain to us that Jesus has to CHASE them down and bring them back to the flock, or that the Body of Christ has to chase after them and turn them back to the flock. If OSAS was even slightly true, then any of that chasing would NOT have to be done AT ALL.

Yet Jesus does go after those who have strayed away, the Bible tells the Body of Christ that they need to chase them down and face them back to the truth (flock)... the OSAS is SO false that it makes people believe that Jesus DON'T HAVE to chase down people who have gone astray.

I agree with this for the most part.

That is what the OSAS teaches... stray all you want, it don't matter because salvation is secure.

Most that I know would say no one who continually strays has any assurance of salvation. Most would say if you leave and never repent, then you were never saved to begin with. So I don't know any who teach the doctrine as a license to sin.

If that had any ounce of truth... then Jesus wouldn't need to chase after those who stray and we as the Body of Christ wouldn't be told to turn people who have strayed away, to turn back. We can only turn them back, Jesus takes the time to BRING them back. Once we turn them back, then Jesus does the rest of the work and lead them through repentance and they are "RESTORED" and this is the Bible analogy of Jesus carrying a stray BACK to the flock.

Is straying and falling away the same thing? Look at what Psalms 73 says. It is interesting to me when I think about this debate.

Ps 73:1-2

73 Surely God is good to Israel,
To those who are pure in heart!
2 But as for me, my feet came close to stumbling,
My steps had almost slipped.
NASU

He said he almost slipped. What did he do? He didn't slip, but almost and let's look at what happened.

Ps 73:3
3 For I was envious of the arrogant
As I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
NASU

He envied. Then he thought he kept himself pure in vain.

Ps 73:13-14
13 Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure
And washed my hands in innocence;
14 For I have been stricken all day long
And chastened every morning.
NASU

He got bitter against God (next verses) and had been chastised (prior verses) every day.

Ps 73:21-22

21 When my heart was embittered
And I was pierced within,
22 Then I was senseless and ignorant;
I was like a beast before You.
NASU

He was to the point that he was senseless and like a beast (demonic)! He had been turned over to Satan for whipping! Yet, through it all, what did he say next?

Ps 73:23-24
23 Nevertheless I am continually with You;
You have taken hold of my right hand.
24 With Your counsel You will guide me,
And afterward receive me to glory.
NASU

God held him. He didn't slip. But he almost did. We see the same pattern in Hebrews 12 when God warns us about bitterness while being disciplined.

Heb 12:7

7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
NASU

Then immediately following the discipline paragraph, God says this.

Heb 12:12-13

12 Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.
NASU

And then gives a strong warning.

Heb 12:14-17

14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled; 16 that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.
NASU

Don't get bitter at the discipline nor at the one being disciplined. Because this is a path of slipping! Bitterness will defile you and others. Then it will lead to immorality because you see your purity as vanity. Finally, it will lead to godlessness like Esau. Then, there is no hope for you. While you may desire the blessing, you won't find it in your heart to say you did wrong. instead, you will say you were treated wrongly. That's not repentance. Esau found no room in his heart for repentance. But he still wanted the blessings.

If OSAS was true... there would be now NEED for any of this action by the Body of Chist or Jesus concerning those who have turned away.

OSAS is false and there will be people eternally separated from God, due to what that false doctrine teaches.

There is also lack of growth in believers because they believe they fall away after sinning or don't understand repentance, or believe they have to keep themselves. It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. Fear of the Lord keeps us from evil.

[Brother Mark]

Mark, the essence of salvation is "CHRIST-IN-YOU" (and "filled with the Holy Spirit"). If we commit an unintentional sin (which arguably is not possible, ALL sin is sin --- "he who knows what is right and does not do it, to him it is sin" James4:17), it still separates us from Jesus, unless we repent. (Lk13:3.)

The OT is full of scripture about unintentional sins.

What is your definition of repent?

Is there really a difference? We are either "in Christ", or not; there is no middle-ground or "Twilight Zone".
No one has to discuss anything, I very much appreciate the thoughts you have posted. :-)

I agree. I just don't think unrepentant sin automatically means "lost".

Still, I hope you'll recognize that the label reflects the action, established in Luke8:13-15 with the undeniable connection to Heb6:7-8. And that there is no reason that the exact same words between two adjacent chapters hafta mean the same thing ("escaped defilements/corruption true-knowledge Lord Savior Jesus"). And (third point) that works are the consequence of faith, they necessarily follow salvation but are not part of becoming saved.

Do we agree on these three things?

I am not defending the OSAS position.

But that is what all three OSAS positions teach --- "you can sin, but you will not die". One denies that sin damages our souls, the second denies that we can continue in sin long enough to stray from Christ, and the third presumes that GOD will keep us from sinning (preserve us).

My point wasn't to defend OSAS. Rather it was to point out I see no difference in your teaching and Satan's lie. "You'll not die". You are saying you'll not die if you repent. You are still alive. Now, if you said you believe that the moment someone sinned, they died, then I would see no issue with you using the lie Satan said in the garden.

The first "rest" was the Promised Land, on Earth; the second "rest" is eternal life. Yes they were God's people --- but there is a Universe of difference between "God's children", and "children-of-God".

They are a type of the children of God. It is their journey that teaches us about our journey. They are an example for us. God did cut them off. But it wasn't because they rebelled for 470 years. he spanked them and put them in bondage for that. He will do the same with us today (1 Cor 5.) They got cut off when they rejected Jesus completely and totally.

What do you make of the end of Hebrews 6 where God went into covenant with Abraham by swearing to Himself? Basically, it was Jesus and God going into covenant with each other for Abraham's sake.

[Slug1]

There is also lack of growth in believers because they believe they fall away after sinning or don't understand repentance, or believe they have to keep themselves. It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. Fear of the Lord keeps us from evil.

Read all ya posted

As for this comment you made... the fact that we are to repent, shows that the OSAS doctrine is false. OSAS believers don't have to repent at all anymore because if they truly believe that false doctrine, then repenting of sin after accepting Christ, isn't even needed anymore.

Yet the Bible shows us how to keep from sin and also... for those who slip and sin, they can repent. What about those who turn away, or in other words... turn to sin, you know, those who aren't slipping anymore but JUMPED into sin?

The Bible tells us the reason to turn them back away from death is so their soul can be saved... what of those who don't turn away from death and happen to die before they can turn away from death and repent?

Is their soul not saved?

Sure, the OSAS believers will always say that the person was NEVER facing God but that is just their excuse in choosing to believe that doctrine over the Word of God. The reason I say this is because the Word of God is very clear that ONLY those who accepted Christ can turn away and face death. So all those warnings are for those in Christ who have turned away FROM Christ. Clearly, these scriptures are about Christians but OSAS believers CAN'T admit that truth. Why can't they admit that truth... because then there is a big hole in the OSAS doctrine.

They can't have that, now can they?

[Brother Mark]

Read all ya posted

As for this comment you made... the fact that we are to repent, shows that the OSAS doctrine is false. OSAS believers don't have to repent at all anymore because if they truly believe that false doctrine, then repenting of sin after accepting Christ, isn't even needed anymore.

That would be a different OSAS doctrine than I have heard.

Yet the Bible shows us how to keep from sin and also... for those who slip and sin, they can repent. What about those who turn away, or in other words... turn to sin, you know, those who aren't slipping anymore but JUMPED into sin?

The Bible tells us the reason to turn them back away from death is so their soul can be saved... what of those who don't turn away from death and happen to die before they can turn away from death and repent?

I think they are in danger of slipping. That's the point, I think, of Psalms 73. he was close. But there was in his heart yet, he did not consider himself having slipped.

My personal opinion is we turn them away from impending death, not that they are already dead.

Sure, the OSAS believers will always say that the person was NEVER facing God but that is just their excuse in choosing to believe that doctrine over the Word of God.

I think if someone who holds to OSAS and NOSAS examined the life of the same person, there's a decent chance that both would say "he's lost". Shoot, I would have thought Lot was lost except that the NT tells me he was righteous.

[Slug1]

I think if someone who holds to OSAS and NOSAS examined the life of the same person, there's a decent chance that both would say "he's lost". Shoot, I would have thought Lot was lost except that the NT tells me he was righteous.

Well, the OSAS believer would write anyone "off" who gets lost because that doctrine has them believing that the person was NEVER in Christ in the first place. ALL OSAS believers have ALWAYS stated... if a person turns away from God and leaves the flock, then they were never in Christ in the first place. The NOSAS believer understands that a person can turn away as the Bible shows us and the NOSAS believer will also DO what the Bible shows us what to do... turn them back.

OSAS is wrong on many levels.

You do understand that this is one of the reasons FOR that false doctrine? If satan can make the Body of Christ NOT turn a Christian away from death and back to God, then he'll be able to devour them. That is, to me... THE MAIN reason for that false doctrine and we see the fruit of that doctrine come to life in these words from any of those bound in that false doctrine... "Well then, that person wasn't in Christ anyway since they turned away to sin and got lost from the flock!"

Scripture SHOWS us that people WILL turn away and walk away from the flock... for the OSAS doctrine to paint this as a person was NEVER a part of the flock to begin with... then why does scripture show us Jesus chasing after them to bring them back?? Clearly they were part of the flock and this shows how FALSE the OSAS doctrine is. If the OSAS doctrine was correct then Jesus would NEVER give chase to bring them back.

[Brother Mark]

Well, the OSAS believer would write anyone "off" who gets lost because that doctrine has them believing that the person was NEVER in Christ in the first place. ALL OSAS believers have ALWAYS stated... if a person turns away from God and leaves the flock, then they were never in Christ in the first place. The NOSAS believer understands that a person can turn away as the Bible shows us and the NOSAS believer will also DO what the Bible shows us what to do... turn them back.

I also think that the NOSAS extreme leaves some people in perpetual infancy. (See Hebrews 6.)

You do understand that this is one of the reasons FOR that false doctrine? If satan can make the Body of Christ NOT turn a Christian away from death and back to God, then he'll be able to devour them. That is, to me... THE MAIN reason for that false doctrine and we see the fruit of that doctrine come to life in these words from any of those bound in that false doctrine... "Well then, that person wasn't in Christ anyway since they turned away to sin and got lost from the flock!"

I understand. I think there is also danger in the NOSAS position that believes in the in and out thing. I don't buy that either because of Heb 6 an because of the long suffering patience of God revealed throughout the scriptures.

Scripture SHOWS us that people WILL turn away and walk away from the flock... for the OSAS doctrine to paint this as a person was NEVER a part of the flock to begin with... then why does scripture show us Jesus chasing after them to bring them back?? Clearly they were part of the flock and this shows how FALSE the OSAS doctrine is. If the OSAS doctrine was correct then Jesus would NEVER give chase to bring them back.

But there are scriptures that talk about 'if they left us, they were not part of us'.

My personal opinion is that we don't chase people to bring them back. We chase them to prevent them from going too far.

[Slug1]

My personal opinion is that we don't chase people to bring them back. We chase them to prevent them from going too far.

Hooah! We're told only to turn them back. If they turn back (their choice), then Jesus carries them back to the flock. Scripture is very clear on this. This carrying is them being led to surrender back over to Jesus and repenting, He will then carry them back to the flock and this is "restoration".

Which scriptures specifically concerning the "if they left us, they were not a part of us"? I know there are scriptures concerning this but to my recall, they are about those who actually never accepted Christ. All the scriptures I've raised in this thread are the scriptures that in context, ARE about those in the Body of Christ.

[Brother Mark]

Hooah! We're told only to turn them back. If they turn back (their choice), then Jesus carries them back to the flock. Scripture is very clear on this. This carrying is them being led to surrender back over to Jesus and repenting, He will then carry them back to the flock and this is "restoration".

Right. We see that in 1 Cor 5. There, Paul called the man a 'so called believer'. But in 2 Cor, he was fully restored. He had repented. I don't think he was lost then saved. But I do think he very well could have been in danger of becoming lost.

God disciplines those of us that are his. He doesn't discipline those that are not his. So if one is lost, he is not subject to the discipline of God.

[Slug1]

He doesn't discipline those that are not his. So if one is lost, he is not subject to the discipline of God.

Yep! Jesus don't go after any lost who were not "once" in the flock.

We have to separate the "two" different "lost" types. Lost as in those who have never accepted Christ and are not a sheep in the flock, or those that have accepted Christ and for some reason have become lost from the flock (turned away from God).

The OSAS doctrine has all those who believe that doctrine thinking those who are in the flock but become lost... were NEVER in the flock. That is wrong and one of the greater reason's why that doctrine is a false doctrine. The purpose of that falsehood of that doctrine is so they (OSAS believers) don't attempt to turn that sheep BACK to the Jesus so then Jesus can lead that lost sheep back to the flock through the process of repentance and restoration.

I'm telling you... OSAS is false and a means in which satan devours Christians who stray... by getting other Christians (OSAS believers) to think they (the Christians who are lost and separate from the flock) weren't really Christians from the get go.

[Brother Mark]

Yep! Jesus don't go after any lost who were not "once" in the flock.

We have to separate the "two" different "lost" types. Lost as in those who have never accepted Christ and are not a sheep in the flock, or those that have accepted Christ and for some reason have become lost from the flock (turned away from God).

I don't think the lost, as in not saved, is disciplined by God. IOW, I don't believe one who is disciplined by God is lost. They are saved, but in rebellion.

The OSAS doctrine has all those who believe that doctrine thinking those who are in the flock but become lost... were NEVER in the flock. That is wrong and one of the greater reason's why that doctrine is a false doctrine. The purpose of that falsehood of that doctrine is so they (OSAS believers) don't attempt to turn that sheep BACK to the Jesus so then Jesus can lead that lost sheep back to the flock through the process of repentance and restoration.

I believe Hebrews 6 teaches that if one falls away, they cannot be restored to salvation. It requires a second crucifixion. Others believe differently. I thinkn both sides of the debate struggle to make that passage say something to back there belief system up. But in the beginning of the chapter, it givess a stark warning against falling away. At the end, it talks about how hard it is to actually fall away..

I'm telling you... OSAS is false and a means in which satan devours Christians who stray... by getting other Christians (OSAS believers) to think they (the Christians who are lost and separate from the flock) weren't really Christians from the get go.

Perhaps. But in no different way than those that preach one is lost because he has sinned. That's my point Ken. There are two ditches here. Scripture is full of examples of the long suffering of God. It is the security we have in Him that moves us on to maturity (Hebrews 6). But the warnings are there too for a reason.

One side says "look only at the warnings". The other side says "look only at the security". I say "look at both". We are far more secure than most imagine, and this gives us room to grow, to mature, to understand God is not ready to swat us at every misstep. Did you see above where G suggested there were no unintentional sins? The warnings are there and we need to heed them. The promises are there too and we need to heed those.

Judas was a devil from teh beginning and never saved. But what of Esau? He sold his birthright. Two examples in scripture I think we need to be aware of.

[Slug1]

Perhaps. But in no different way than those that preach one is lost because he has sinned. That's my point Ken. There are two ditches here. Scripture is full of examples of the long suffering of God. It is the security we have in Him that moves us on to maturity (Hebrews 6). But the warnings are there too for a reason.

My point exactly... why the warnings IF a person's salvation is secure?

I also can't agree that a sinner is "lost" forever because they fell back into sin. If they were, then there would be no scriptures about repentance and restoration either. If a Christian who turns away and falls back into sin was "lost" FOREVER from the flock then we'd also NOT read about Jesus searching for them to bring them back.

Judas was a devil from teh beginning and never saved.

This is always a stumper for many Christians since he operated as a disciple in the POWER of God until he made that final choice. Even his repentance in on record in the Bible as a false repentance. Yet prior to this... there was a time he operated by the Power of God as he went out doing miracles while he spoke about the coming of the Kingdom of God.

Always makes a good thread

[Gadgeteer]

The OT is full of scripture about unintentional sins.

What is your definition of repent?

"Metanoeō" means "to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins".

Is there really a difference? We are either "in Christ", or not; there is no middle-ground or "Twilight Zone".

I agree. I just don't think unrepentant sin automatically means "lost".

Now wait --- this is important. Why not? You agree that "in sin" is the opposite of "in Christ"; so how can "unrepentant-in-sin" still be saved?

Still, I hope you'll recognize that the label reflects the action, established in Luke8:13-15 with the undeniable connection to Heb6:7-8. And that there is no reason that the exact same words between two adjacent chapters hafta mean the same thing ("escaped defilements/corruption true-knowledge Lord Savior Jesus"). And (third point) that works are the consequence of faith, they necessarily follow salvation but are not part of becoming saved.

Do we agree on these three things?

I am not defending the OSAS position.

The issue isn't really OSAS, it's "cause and effect" (which indirectly is "OSAS/OSNAS"). You said that "pigs and dogs do not change" --- this implies that being dogs/pigs is causal to them "never being saved". But if it's the other way, that is "they are CALLED dogs and pigs BECAUSE OF the vomit/mire/defilements", then there was a time when they were NOT "dogs and pigs". Make sense?

My point wasn't to defend OSAS. Rather it was to point out I see no difference in your teaching and satan's lie. "You'll not die". You are saying you'll not die if you repent. You are still alive. Now, if you said you believe that the moment someone sinned, they died, then I would see no issue with you using the lie satan said in the garden.

No, not "the moment someone sins". Clearly God does not want us to sin. The point (behind all our discussions), is that salvation is an indwelt fellowship of love between Creator and creature. As such, Jesus and the Spirit indwell the saved person. To sin, one has to turn one's back on Jesus and the Spirit. What is the critical question is whether such a turned-away-person continues in the direction of sin, or turns back to Jesus.

That's why I said "a sin does not damage us, but the AGAIN does".

They are a type of the children of God. It is their journey that teaches us about our journey. They are an example for us. God did cut them off. But it wasn't because they rebelled for 470 years. he spanked them and put them in bondage for that. He will do the same with us today (1 Cor 5.) They got cut off when they rejected Jesus completely and totally.

Can you please tell me why you cited 1Cor5? Can an "immoral man" (worse than heathens) still waltz through the gates of Heaven???

What do you make of the end of Hebrews 6 where God went into covenant with Abraham by swearing to Himself? Basically, it was Jesus and God going into covenant with each other for Abraham's sake.

From God's side "OSAS" is a fact. Nothing can separate us from His love, He will never leave us nor forsake us, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. His oath to us is without change.

...but from our side, we can turn away.

Did you see my posts on "all of Hebrews"? The whole letter is consistent, isn't it?

[Brother Mark]

My point exactly... why the warnings IF a person's salvation is secure?

I also can't agree that a sinner is "lost" forever because they fell back into sin. If they were, then there would be no scriptures about repentance and restoration either. If a Christian who turns away and falls back into sin was "lost" FOREVER from the flock then we'd also NOT read about Jesus searching for them to bring them back.

Saved people can repent and be restored. IMO, to be saved again requires a second crucifixion.

This is always a stumper for many Christians since he operated as a disciple in the POWER of God until he made that final choice. Even his repentance in on record in the Bible as a false repentance. Yet prior to this... there was a time he operated by the Power of God as he went out doing miracles while he spoke about the coming of the Kingdom of God.

Balaam knew of the power of God. But he "longed to die like the righteous". I'll not delve too much into all that.

Tell me about Esau. Why could he not obtain repentance?

Always makes a good thread

LOL! I bet it does. Jesus is clear that Judas was never saved. Also, he use to pilfer from the money bag and Jesus knew it. Imagine what would happen to a church today if the pastor knew an elder was stealing from the church treasury and let it slide! That tells me how much Jesus was concerned about money.

[Gadgeteer]

I also think that the NOSAS extreme leaves some people in perpetual infancy. (See Hebrews 6.)

I don't understand how. Proverbs says "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" --- fear/reverence is far greater for those who understand their personal responsibility in diligence.

I understand. I think there is also danger in the NOSAS position that believes in the in and out thing.

How?

But there are scriptures that talk about 'if they left us, they were not part of us'.

That would be 1Jn2:19. In context, verses 1:2:26-68 is yet another warning against deceivers who can lead us away from Jesus --- "shrink-in-shame at His appearing" is to be found in sin, unsaved. Can't be anything else.

Second, 2Jn1:7-9 (still another "deceived-away-from-Jesus" warning!) speaks of some of US "going on ahead", which is "going out from us" and falling from salvation.

Third, those in 1Jn2:19 may well have been saved at some point in the past; nothing in the wording prevents that. They were not saved when they went out, but they could have been a year ago. Or even a couple days...

My personal opinion is that we don't chase people to bring them back. We chase them to prevent them from going too far.

Both. Most of the NT is about "maturity", not "salvation". We are to shepherd our brothers and sisters.