Our World Is Getting Sicker

[Ashley274]

I am in agreement with you

Are you aware that the "Christians" who did such things were that in name only?




I don't see how this defines the world in the past as being just as bad now but I am open for an explanation.




Can you name one time in biblical history where they weren't known? Even Adam tended a garden. Soil depletion is a bad thing,no?




I see similar stories in the headlines:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/zoe-ort...-msm-out-lunch
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...et-569604.html
http://www.10news.com/news/7558922/detail.html



And you think THIS is getting better? I mean after all,this whole thing is all man's fault to begin with. Question: Who was deceived into eating of the tree of knowledge? However,let's see the scriptures that oppose your position:

2Ti 3:1 . This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;





Well that would be the one that can back it's position from scripture,as I think I am doing. Do you have a scriptural perspective that supports your position or is just an opinion based on sentimental emotionalism? A common error for women(since you went and got all sexist on me)




Exactly,that's why I refer to the bible when considering matters like this. Are you doing that?



Go back and read my posts concerning this V. Everything I am saying I believe is supported from scripture. I haven't see you,Candice or NFL post a single bible verse in any of your posts concerning this.

Of course there is. However,if I am I would like to be shown why the scripture seems to be saying one thing and you are saying another? Could it be(God forbid) That you are wrong?


Wow, I mean just wow. Look out your Jungian animus is showing Sheath them claws girly girl!
Maybe I do need to get my head out of the sand.....see my SIG? I am talking about ME.

[Ashley274]

Saying this in love maybe condescension as you stated is not the way to reply to anyone even IF they are condesending. It's not edifying and maybe just agreeing to disagree is best and more a mirror of Christ than this back and forth angry posting...I am sorry you may feel hurt or whatever you are feeling ....Praying whatever it is passes soon. This is not good for the site at all.

You know nothing of the sort - and if you think you do, I'd like to hear "why". I am befuddled but not angry and not hurt.

In case you haven't picked up on it, I have been using the same tone and the same level of condescension to reply t people that I see displayed in THEIR posts to others. No - it isn't the Golden Rule - but it certainly shows the blinders people wear.

[Is45]

This is very nice and touchy feely but it contradicts the scriptures:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Things are definitely getting worse and worse and will continue to do so until the fullness of iniquity reaches it's height.

The more perverted the world becomes the less conscious people are of the world's perversions...
eventually good becomes evil and evil becomes good.

http://bible.cc/isaiah/5-20.htm



.

[Vhayes]

Thank you, Ashley, for this gentle and timely rebuke.

Now, are you willing to quote another poster and tell them the same or am I the only one worthy of rebuke because you happen to disagree with me?

[strongwatchman]

I am haunted by the story below. It makes me ill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/wo...?_r=2&src=tptw

Insurgents tricked an 8-year-old girl in a remote area of central Afghanistan into carrying a bomb wrapped in cloth that they detonated remotely when she was close to a police vehicle, the Afghan authorities said Sunday.

May the poor little girl rest in peace in God's bosom.

[Luke34]

We see what we want to see and disregard the rest. Therefore I choose to believe what the bible says about it. Are some things better?
I would have to say ,yes. However,looking at it from a total perspective I can see that what the scripture is reality.

I actually disagree with this in the strongest possible terms, but you still made a Simon & Garfunkel reference (right?), so, nice.

[Faithful One]

Are


I see similar stories in the headlines:

2Ti 3:1 . This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Very True Shepherdsword;
I see this prophecy coming to pass even on this "Christian" forum! Rejecting the Word of God in favor of their own opinions, Accusing the godly, and despising those who are promoting God's Word.

I wonder if these folks realize they are actually fulfilling this end time prophecy?? Its pretty obvious the war that is going on.

Faithful

[shepherdsword]

I actually disagree with this in the strongest possible terms, but you still made a Simon & Garfunkel reference (right?), so, nice.

Simon's lyrics were "a man HEARS what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. My reference is rooted in the definition of apophenia. The process by which we see the meaningful patterns we desire in chaotic data. Since you blindly ignored the scriptural references I provided as proof for my position and improperly defined my source for the one non biblical reference I stated,I can only say: Thanks for sharing!

Get back to me when you have some scripture to back your disagreement.

Very True Shepherdsword;
I see this prophecy coming to pass even on this "Christian" forum! Rejecting the Word of God in favor of their own opinions, Accusing the godly, and despising those who are promoting God's Word.

I wonder if these folks realize they are actually fulfilling this end time prophecy?? Its pretty obvious the war that is going on.

[/B]Faithful

So true brother so true. It gives serious credence to the question of Jesus "when the Son of man returns will he find faith on the earth?"

[keck553]

Very True Shepherdsword;
I see this prophecy coming to pass even on this "Christian" forum! Rejecting the Word of God in favor of their own opinions, Accusing the godly, and despising those who are promoting God's Word.

I wonder if these folks realize they are actually fulfilling this end time prophecy?? Its pretty obvious the war that is going on.

[/B]Faithful

How is this anything new?

[Luke34]

Simon's lyrics were "a man HEARS what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. My reference is rooted in the definition of apophenia. The process by which we see the meaningful patterns we desire in chaotic data.

I know perfectly well what the lyric is. A reference doesn't require you to reproduce it exactly. If I were talking about, say, rotting apples, and I said "Time hurries on, and the apples that are green turn to brown," that would still be a Simon and Garfunkel reference even though I didn't say "leaves."

Of course, I wouldn't bother to explain references to you except that you apparently felt the need to become weirdly defensive instead of just saying "No, I did not mean to make that reference." And the reason I didn't go into any depth was because there wasn't any depth to go into. All you've done is take a single verse of the Bible out of its context and then claim that this means "the scriptures" demand some laughably specific telological model of history by which literally every single era is worse than the previous era. That's not something that's worth responding to.

[shepherdsword]

I know perfectly well what the lyric is. A reference doesn't require you to reproduce it exactly. If I were talking about, say, rotting apples, and I said "Time hurries on, and the apples that are green turn to brown," that would still be a Simon and Garfunkel reference even though I didn't say "leaves."

Of course, I wouldn't bother to explain references to you except that you apparently felt the need to become weirdly defensive instead of just saying "No, I did not mean to make that reference."

Translation: "I was wrong is assuming your source but instead of admitting that I choose to project my error onto you."

And the reason I didn't go into any depth was because there wasn't any depth to go into. All you've done is take a single verse of the Bible out of its context and then claim that this means "the scriptures" demand some laughably specific telological model of history by which literally every single era is worse than the previous era. That's not something that's worth responding to.

Go back and read my posts. I posted more than one verse. NONE of them are out of context. The context is the endtimes and how the world will get worse.
Like I said,get back to me when you have some biblical references to dispute that. The reason you don't go into "depth" is simply because you can't. What is laughable is saying something isn't worth responding to,when the fact is...there is no proper contrary response.
Thanks for sharing.

[Luke34]

Translation: "I was wrong is assuming your source but instead of admitting that I choose to project my error onto you."

Sigh. Keep practicing. There is, of course, a difference between "a source" and "a reference." What you said was a reference even if you didn't mean for it to be.

Go back and read my posts. I posted more than one verse. NONE of them are out of context. The context is the endtimes and how the world will get worse.
Like I said,get back to me when you have some biblical references to dispute that. The reason you don't go into "depth" is simply because you can't. What is laughable is saying something isn't worth responding to,when the fact is...there is no proper contrary response.
Thanks for sharing.

Here's your entire argument: "Here's some Bible verses that say things will be bad in the 'end times.' Here are some things that are bad! Therefore, it is now the end times." You also have created, out of nowhere, a ridiculous teleological interpretation of the verse in Timothy. If you feel there are any clues in the context of the passage that indicate that it's intended as a summation of all future history and a description of the "end times," then feel free to argue, coherently, that that's how the passage should be read. As of now, it's a willful misreading. Bible verses don't apply to things just because you say they do.

I've never understood why anyone thinks "Here's a list of some BAD STUFF" is any sort of argument indicating "The world will end soon." Yes, people are killing and doing other various evil things in various parts of the world. You know when else that's been true? Every other period of recorded history. There's simply no way to quantify the amount of evil in the entire world and say "Yes, this one time period is more/less evil than this other." It's absurd. It's like trying to guess in which year the earth had the most total blades of grass. It just doesn't make any sense at all and insisting that various random Bible verses apply to THIS EXACT TIME because, um, bad things are happening is ridiculous. Get back to me when you know how to construct arguments that make any sort of sense or mean anything.

[shepherdsword]

Sigh. Keep practicing. There is, of course, a difference between "a source" and "a reference." What you said was a reference even if you didn't mean for it to be.

*sigh*I suggest you read my post again. The SOURCE for my reference wasn't Paul Simon. I guess the explanation is a bit beyond you.There is a proven psychological process by which we disregard any information that conflicts with the pattern we wish to see.Your argument about this would have more merit if you suggested that perhaps I was being influenced by this process as well. After all,that is possible. However,I haven't seen you post anything that leads credence to your position. Just a weak attempt to discredit mine.

Here's your entire argument:

Don't look at my post through your paradigm and try to define "my whole argument" I will point it out to you a bit later.

"Here's some Bible verses that say things will be bad in the 'end times.' Here are some things that are bad! Therefore, it is now the end times." You also have created, out of nowhere, a ridiculous teleological interpretation of the verse in Timothy.

I highly doubt that someone just out of adolescence is capable of calling any theological argument of mine "ridiculous" but I'm all ears! Please explain how applying it to the modern era is so absurd.

If you feel there are any clues in the context of the passage that indicate that it's intended as a summation of all future history and a description of the "end times," then feel free to argue, coherently, that that's how the passage should be read. As of now, it's a willful misreading. Bible verses don't apply to things just because you say they do.

Wow,how will I ever defeat this wondrous argument! I mean,all you basically said to defeat it is "NANNA NANNA BOO BOO it doesn't apply just because you say it does!" Now on a more serious note,since you claim I am willfully misreading the text let's hear what the proper reading is?
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. Well now look at that! it clearly states that when most think everything is all right...SUDDEN DESTRUCTION

2Pt 3:3 . Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

Hmmmm,here we see that in the last days there will be those that scoff at the promise of the Lord's coming. I guess they think everything is getting better too.

2Ti 3:1 . This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Oh yeah here once again we see how much better people will get. I bet these people are making the world a better place! However,here is their real mistake:

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Oh the irony! But let's take a look at teaching and doctrine. Why is it they never come to a knowledge of truth?

1Ti 4:1 . Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Anyone with eyes to see can the progression of a one world system on the horizon.It was quoted by a President of ours 20 years ago...new world order.
It's true that every generation has always though they were the one. Such a belief kept them ever looking for the return of the Lord. However,no othe generation has had the technological means to track and record every monetary transaction made,to detect people with facial recognition software and to make the threat "Big Brother is watching you" a reality. World events,science and technology and endtime prophecy are on a course of convergent proximity like never before.
Now,lets' here a scriptural basis for the way you see things Luke? You said I took the scriptures out of context and misread them.Let's here a "proper" exegesis of them. Let's here a coherent explanation for the way you see the world going.
Regurgitated liberal babblespeak just fills me with sarcasm. Especially when it is spewed without any meaningful argument of it's own.

I've never understood why anyone thinks "Here's a list of some BAD STUFF" is any sort of argument indicating "The world will end soon." Yes, people are killing and doing other various evil things in various parts of the world. You know when else that's been true? Every other period of recorded history. There's simply no way to quantify the amount of evil in the entire world and say "Yes, this one time period is more/less evil than this other." It's absurd. It's like trying to guess in which year the earth had the most total blades of grass. It just doesn't make any sense at all and insisting that various random Bible verses apply to THIS EXACT TIME because, um, bad things are happening is ridiculous. Get back to me when you know how to construct arguments that make any sort of sense or mean anything.

What can be proven and what HAS been proven is that the scripture clearly states that the world will get progressively worse until the Lord's return. In fact is says this:

Mt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Now that sounds to me like things are going to get just about as bad as they can get right before the Lord's return. Now this is my argument, the scripture states that things will get progressively worse before the Lord's return.
I will wait for a meaningful scriptural rebuttal to my position but I won't hold my breath. I think my sarcasm is well justified.

[NHL Fever]

Every other period of recorded history. There's simply no way to quantify the amount of evil in the entire world and say "Yes, this one time period is more/less evil than this other." It's absurd. It's like trying to guess in which year the earth had the most total blades of grass. It just doesn't make any sense at all and insisting that various random Bible verses apply to THIS EXACT TIME because, um, bad things are happening is ridiculous. Get back to me when you know how to construct arguments that make any sort of sense or mean anything.

Exactly.

Sheperd you still haven't made any argument that points out how the world is worse today than in savage ancient times, or how the verses you quoted apply to today more than those times. Today you have more right, more freedoms, longer life, more opportunities, more control over your person, more religious freedom, and more chance to succeed in every way than ever before in the history of earth. Because 6 billion people manage to sin a lot is not surprising. But the world's population has always sinned, and the the realities of life were much, much harsher and crueler in the past that today.

You made some argument relating to famine in the world and resource issues, but this has almost everything to do with corporate dominance, greed, and the way resources are distributed. Morals issues like pornography are also prevalent, and likewise there is no larger source of the production and distribution of pornography than the American corporate world. So you need to seriously look at what you have today, compared to what you would have (both in material, religious, and social opportunities) compared to times past. Because you are seeing only your time as the worst time, without any historical or biblical context.

Your arguments resolve about your personal interpretation of your present situation (all about you), name-calling, and criticisms of things like the age of somebody. Maybe that was an argument in the past, it is not so today.

In the same theme as my friend above, do you know who else thought world government, and therefore the end of the world was upon them? Every other generaion in modern history. This is not new, and it won't be new when its claimed in 100, 200, and 1000 years from now either. One example - when food and gas were rationed in WWII, my great-grandpa was convinced that meant the end times were neigh (can only buy and sell with a number, etc). Does that really make sense? Well sure if you want it to. Otherwise, not really.

[shepherdsword]

Exactly.

Sheperd you still haven't made any argument that points out how the world is worse today than in savage ancient times, or how the verses you quoted apply to today more than those times. Today you have more right, more freedoms, longer life, more opportunities, more control over your person, more religious freedom, and more chance to succeed in every way than ever before in the history of earth. Because 6 billion people manage to sin a lot is not surprising. But the world's population has always sinned, and the the realities of life were much, much harsher and crueler in the past that today.

I have seen a worsening in moral standards myself in the last twenty years. Homosexuality is becoming widely accepted even to the point that in five states,they can get "married". When I was young we could pray in school. Some of my teachers in public school even used to lead us. Now you can't even pray at a graduation ceremony. Since Roe V Wade we can now kill babies in the womb. My country(America) has gone from a lender to a debtor nation. Population has gone from 4 billion to six billion in my lifetime alone. Natural resources are being depleted at an alarming rate.In fact,just read some of the headlines in this very sub-forum.

You made some argument relating to famine in the world and resource issues, but this has almost everything to do with corporate dominance, greed, and the way resources are distributed.

Things used to be much better didn't they

Morals issues like pornography are also prevalent, and likewise there is no larger source of the production and distribution of pornography than the American corporate world. So you need to seriously look at what you have today, compared to what you would have (both in material, religious, and social opportunities) compared to times past. Because you are seeing only your time as the worst time, without any historical or biblical context.

Well now let's take a look at your argument from a scriptural viewpoint. Your whole argument is based on the fact that we have more material goods and therefore the world is a better place..Your argument is counter to scripture and it sounds a whole lot like being in love with the world and materialism to me. If we are Christians the quality of life isn't based on what we have or posses,Jesus said that. Do you have another interpretation for that?
Wow,and I am being told MY arguments have no scriptural context. OH,the IRONY!

Your arguments resolve about your personal interpretation of your present situation (all about you), name-calling, and criticisms of things like the age of somebody. Maybe that was an argument in the past, it is not so today.

You need to explain why you think the scriptures I posted have no relevance today. I don't know where you get this from but I wouldn't drink the kool-aid if I were you.

In the same theme as my friend above, do you know who else thought world government, and therefore the end of the world was upon them? Every other generaion in modern history.

I can see by this post that you didn't even read my responses to Luke. I freely admit as much,However this is what we are commanded to do:

2Pt 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

We are told to look for this.we were told what the signs would be for the coming of the Son of man. We were told we could know the season. At least those who really love him would be able to know. There are others who fell into this categories below. I sure don't want to be among them,do you?

2Pt 3:3 . Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This is not new, and it won't be new when its claimed in 100, 200, and 1000 years from now either. One example - when food and gas were rationed in WWII, my great-grandpa was convinced that meant the end times were neigh (can only buy and sell with a number, etc). Does that really make sense? Well sure if you want it to. Otherwise, not really.

Your post here sounds a lot like scoffing at the Lord's imminent return. Do you love the Lord? Do you anticipate his return? I don't see how you could with this mindset. Maybe you can clear it up for me? I am curious how this could be true with your "world view". It's not meant to be insulting.You really think things will continue for another 200 years? I suggest you offer an interpretive counterpoint to my "interpretation" before accepting the concept that the world is "just getting better"
This simply isn't true.