Matthias: the supposed 12th disciple

[ReigningKing]

If I remember right from Acts, the then 11 cast lots and chose Matthias. But, then that is the last time we ever hear his name mentioned. Does that mean he wasn't chosen by the Holy Spirit, and then they chose Paul, or was it something else? Just trying to set this straight.

Any answers would be helpful.

- Todd

[DDGresham1]

I thought Paul came about many years later?

[ReigningKing]

Allow me to clarify. The Holy Spirit chose Paul a few years later, yes. Sorry for the confusion.

[Nihil Obstat]

If Matthias wasn't chosen by God, why then did Luke use the title "the Twelve" after the lot fell to him (Acts 6:2)? Or why did Paul say that the risen Christ appeared to "the Twelve" (1 Cor. 15:5)? It wouldn't have made any sense for Paul to say that Jesus appeared first to the Twelve and last to him if he was one of the Twelve. (Note: There's only one place where the apostles of the Lamb are called "the Twelve" in between Judas' death and Matthias' replacement, when there was truly only eleven (see John 20:24), but even that was a parenthetical description to clarify the previous verses. Compare Matt. 28:16; Luke 24:9, 33; Acts 1:26; 2:14; and the contested Mark 16:14.)

[ReigningKing]

But one thing is for certain, he was replaced. By whom? I suspect it was Paul, but that can be debated.

[-SEEKING-]

But one thing is for certain, he was replaced.

Certain? How so? Where does it say he was replaced in scripture? Surely the other apostles who weren't mentioned weren't replace to were they?

[Nihil Obstat]

I think that he meant that Judas was certainly replaced, not Matthias.

[Psalms Fan]

When is the last time you hear of Bartholomew, or the other Judas, or Matthew, or any of the other Apostles by name that aren't talked about in Acts? Matthias isn't the only one of the 12 that isn't talked about.

[Nihil Obstat]

For myself, I see it as evident that Luke considered Matthias to have been the Lord's choice in answer to the prayers of the brethren in unity (Acts 1:23-26). In addition to my previous post, though I mentioned it in another thread (curiously not too long before this one started), it's important to note not just what Luke did say, but what he did not say. He did not relate the account of casting lots for Matthias as a negative event anywhere; he goes straight from their persistent and unified prayers in ch. 1 to the giving of the Spirit in ch. 2. The day of Pentecost was when the freed Hebrews gathered at the base of Sinai, and the God who saved them from Egypt came down in fire and great noise and adopted them as His own people. Similarly, the presence of God came down in Acts 2 with a violent rushing noise and in tongues of fire, coming to those gathered in one place in the name of His anointed Prophet. If their decision to replace Judas with Matthias was due to impatience, Luke would have considered it to have been like the golden calf incident, but he didn't. Instead he went on to tell of the Spirit filling all those in the upper room, and how they spoke in tongues but were understood by all - the exact opposite of what occurred in Babel when the people were disobedient. If the choosing of Matthias was in any way to make a name for themselves, Luke would have considered it to have been like the Tower of Babel incident, but he didn't. The plain and simple conclusion that we were meant to land on was that Matthias was the God-ordained, even Jesus-ordained, replacement of Judas.

[ScottJohnson]

I see no reason not to accept that Mathias was divinely appointed but with Paul's appointment, that would make thirteen apostles. Either Paul or Mathias cannot be numbered among the original 11.

[DDGresham1]

Was Judas not convicted after he sinned? He seemed remorseful to me. Maybe he was given God's grace again in the end?

[Psalms Fan]

Matthias was one of the 12. Paul was not. There were many Apostles who were not part of "The 12". There was a separate group of Apostles called "The 70". Paul was indeed an Apostle. He just wasn't one of "The 12".

[mattlad22]

Was Judas not convicted after he sinned? He seemed remorseful to me. Maybe he was given God's grace again in the end?

Didnt he hang himself?

That would be an act of the heart, seems like yes he may have been remorseful, but it also seems that he may have not beleived God, why would he take his own life if he did? Seems he would not have beleived he could recieve salvation from God so he killed himself.

[Pray4U]

If I remember right from Acts, the then 11 cast lots and chose Matthias. But, then that is the last time we ever hear his name mentioned. Does that mean he wasn't chosen by the Holy Spirit, and then they chose Paul, or was it something else? Just trying to set this straight.

Any answers would be helpful.

- Todd

They way I look at Matthias, is that he was chosen by man's way (the 11) by casting lots. Man can not chose what is God's choice in the matter. These so call men who have declared themselves as a Apostle is questionable. Are they chosen by God or Man. You will know by the Fruit (Holy Spirit)they bare.
Jesus choose Paul on the road to Damascus. to be HIS Apostle. The Holy Spirit nurtured Paul in his ministry. We never hear any more about Matthias in the scriptures. But, Paul has given us over 50% of the New Testament ( Epistles) to the early church. His Letters to the churches and others was the basis of the early church and its growth. Thank You, Lord, for Paul and all he has given to the church.

[notuptome]

The selection of Matthias as a replacement for Judas is interesting. It is clear that Paul was selected by Jesus Himself to be an Apostle and a special apostle to the gentiles. Jesus chose who was an apostle personally in every case. Much the same thing in the modern church. Congregations vote on pastors without consideration of what Gods will is in the matter. Pastors like apostles are a gift from God to the church and appointed by God and not man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger