Being mislead

[chad]

When I live by the holy spirit, it allows God to transform my spirit and my mind. Gods wisdom is given and I slowly become a new creation. When I walk in the flesh, there is not much difference between the world around me, my thinking is worldly, my desires are worldy, but when I live by the holy spirit, Gods wisdom is taught to me by the holy spirit so that I might have the mind of Christ.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

[Caleb]

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I think that perhaps it is because many seem to preach and teach, that now you are a Christian you are not to 'conform' to this world, but now you ought to 'conform' to the way of Christianity. It is like they say we should 'improve' and 'mend' our ways and life to be Christian like.

1. metamorphoo (G3339) is rendered "transformed" in Rom_12:2 : see TRANSFIGURE.

It is not about improving the old man, but about being transformed (transfigured) It is the same word as when Jesus was transfigured (changed). When Paul says 'be ye transformed' it is in the passive voice, meaning that God is transforming us, as we renew [make new] our minds.

2. metaschematizo (G3345) transformed, and this one means disguised and v13,14 are middle voice, which means they transformed themselves to be like.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The word renew
anakainoo (G341), "to make new"

2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Our being in Christ and having Christ in us is, means we are now made a new man. It is being completely changed from the old to the new by the renewing of your mind. It is no longer 'I' but Christ in me.

Having been crucified with Christ, we should recon ourselves as dead, but alive to Christ.

[lovex]

I agree with you so much Caleb. Along with all the other replies.

[Amos_with_goats]

I have endeavored to preach the Truth, and the Whole counsel of scripture.

ALL our walk is ultimately between the Lord and us as individuals.

If I am studying or praying in my closet, or speaking from the pulpit I desire to know, and speak the Truth.

Let us each be of this mind....

amen?

[MoreMercy]

You are a beautiful soul lovex, a good servant and a friend of my Master.


God bless.

[lovex]

Wow, thank you for saying that. I honestly thought that this message was something that I'd never do or write about. Because I am not a very bold person... I tend to keep quiet about a lot of things that go on in my heart, but with this message and conviction in my heart, I knew It had to be said. The Lord was there with me as I stepped out of my comfort zone and spoke (I truly hope) for the sake of the Gospel to be known.

[Noonzie]

We have a very weak pulpit in America. One of the big problems is that the churches today think the end justifies the means when it comes to bringing people into a church body. They preach watered down messages that address symptoms, but never address the heart. They provide a carnal environment in hopes that somehow they will be convinced becoming a Christian. The problem with that is now you have carnal people coming to a carnal church having carnal fellowship. The church is then ruled by numbers in the seats instead of the will of God.

I believe the gospel can only be 2 things to a person who hears it.
1. Life changing
or
2. Totally Offensive

If the Holy Spirit has pierced your heart when the gospel is preached, it is life changing. If you are not a Christian and you are hardened to the gospel, it will be absolutely offensive to you.

Most churches try to make the sermon more friendly, so not to offend. They do so at the detriment of the gospel that should be preached.

So as Lovex has so nicely presented, we have people making professions of faith in Jesus from an invitation that did not present the true gospel. They are not convicted of their sin and do not feel repentence. The Holy Spirit has not pierced their heart.

They walk away thinking they have been saved, because the preacher told them so, and go right back into life and act in a way that shows no change in their life.

[Scooby_Snacks]

Thanks for sharing lovex.
Isn't it nice to have a place to share what The Lord puts on your heart?



Amos with Goats said:

ALL our walk is ultimately between the Lord and us as individuals.

I am in full agreement. No one can do it for me. God is merciful and as He loves He corrects.
I also believe that if I love as He loves, I am called to pray for all parts of the body to work together in Him.
If there is an eye detatched, I pray for the eye to be re-connected.
If there is severe bleeding, that the cut be sown.
If there is an idea in a part of the brain that is moving away from Him, I pray for it to remember the truth.
I only hope that there will be a part of the Body that is working in unison with Him that will pray for me when I am malfunctioning.

[truthseeker62]

This is such a good discussion. I agree with you Hunter121. I had spent time listening to a church leader who only spoke of the doom and gloom and all that horrible things that are to come and after a while that just leads you to feeling so down and depressed. I really don't think our Lord wants us to focus only on the bad things that may come in end times, but he also wants us to rejoice in the Lord. I too listen to Joel and he has helped me with finding that there is happiness in the Lord and that all is not doom and gloom. I think that there should be a little of both - knowing that there will be bad times, but also knowing that our Lord can bring us so much happiness if we only put our trust in Him. I have to say that everyone has made very good points in this discussion and that I thank you for your thoughts and what the Lord has had you bring to this discussion. God bless all of you!!

[lovex]

Thank you for your reply truthseeker. I found your post to have so much truth in it.

The main point of my original post was that i find in many Churches of today, Christ is not be exalted. The power that He had on the Cross from Resurrection is in some way weakening to our minds. A lot of Churches find it to be more comforting to provide us all with a very enlightening and refreshing message that doesn't challenge our souls at all. It brings no conviction. It doesn't make us ask ourselves "Why have I been living in sin and find no problem in it?" More like bringing fourth the sin in our life that put Jesus on the Cross, I feel like it's being ignored. Yes, Jesus came here to give us eternal life.... but.... why was He put on that Cross? Because of our sins. What my point was, was that, our sensitivity towards sin is just plain low... we feel like, we may be able to proclaim Jesus in the realm of the Church world because it's easy. Everyone seems to be happy and agreeable at Church, but when we step out... we head straight back into our sinful lives. Obedience, discipline, needs to be a priority in our life. We need to ask ourselves are we "Clothed with Christ". Do the people we are closest too see how much we hate sin and how much we grief over our sin knowing that it put our Lord and Savior on the Cross. How do we act when we are not in Church? How about at our job? Do we compromise just to fit in it or do we stand firm on our foundation and our convictions and be set apart regardless of who says what? We cannot adapt just to keep the peace... we need to be the influences in this life... we need to be like Christ. I am just afraid that so many are being mislead on a path towards where Christianity has become comfortable. Look at Jesus' disciples... do you see one of them living an easy comfortable life? Look at Jesus... was His life based on fitting in with the crowd or doing His Fathers will above all. These are questions that just run through my mind every day and night because I question myself. Why do I prefer to hear a sermon that is all about what God can do for me... but not about what I did too Him?

Sorry... I have lots on my heart, and once I get writing... it's hard to stop...

[Caleb]

We have a very weak pulpit in America. One of the big problems is that the churches today think the end justifies the means when it comes to bringing people into a church body. They preach watered down messages that address symptoms, but never address the heart. They provide a carnal environment in hopes that somehow they will be convinced becoming a Christian. The problem with that is now you have carnal people coming to a carnal church having carnal fellowship. The church is then ruled by numbers in the seats instead of the will of God.

I believe the gospel can only be 2 things to a person who hears it.
1. Life changing
or
2. Totally Offensive

If the Holy Spirit has pierced your heart when the gospel is preached, it is life changing. If you are not a Christian and you are hardened to the gospel, it will be absolutely offensive to you.

Most churches try to make the sermon more friendly, so not to offend. They do so at the detriment of the gospel that should be preached.

So as Lovex has so nicely presented, we have people making professions of faith in Jesus from an invitation that did not present the true gospel. They are not convicted of their sin and do not feel repentence. The Holy Spirit has not pierced their heart.

They walk away thinking they have been saved, because the preacher told them so, and go right back into life and act in a way that shows no change in their life.

Great post Noonzie!

It is like; 'If we deal with and get rid of the bad fruit we are Christians'

The real problem is the bad tree, and it must be cut down.

Luke 3:9 And also the axe is already laid to the root of the trees; therefore, every tree not producing good fruit is being cut down and being thrown into the fire.

[Adrianne]

You make some good points, but it's not like the preachers on tv that have mega churches, aren't changing lives in Christ. Have you ever heard Joel olsteen preach, he is great, idk if he is the one your talking about, but he has definitely helped me with my walk with Christ.

I couldn't agree with you more, Hunter but I'm a bit biased because
Joel is my pastor. I've wondered myself about how this mystery pastor
is changing lives. For example, Lakewood has a branch called Kid's
Life that operates like a private day care during the week. I say
private because it's not open to the public. They provide 100%
free day care to the employees of the church which saves these
parents thousands of dollars a year in childcare.

Also, due to the giving hearts of the congregation and community,
we are able to send Joel's brother, Paul Olsteen (who's a surgeon),
to Africa time and time again. In his last video to the church, he
showed us the community he's working in where he spends 13 hours
a day performing surgery after surgery. Again, free of charge.
But the cost to send him and his team of missionaries over their
is not free. They need a facility to work out of, supplies, medicine,
food, shelter, and the list goes on. Plus they are introducing Christ
to people who may not have ever heard about our Lord.

World Changers International builds homes made of brick for Brazilians
who lived in homes made of cardboard that got soaked when it
rained. They take men, women, and kids off the streets, feed and
house them and let them know about the love of Jesus.

Remember the disaster in Haiti? Operation Blessing installed
water filtration systems to prevent people from dying from
cholera due to the contaminated water. Clean water is a lifeline
in a struggling community.

...and the list goes on.

I'm not sure if the 3 sources I've listed is the pastor the OP
is talking about. Since she did not mention his name, I am
unable to listen to his teachings and discern thru my spirit
if he is a healthy tree producing good fruit or unhealthy tree
producing bad fruit (Matt 7:17). If he's the head of a mega
church, I'm sure he's providing some type of charitable service
to the world. I think some light should be shed on that part of
his ministry as well as his wrongdoings.

Either way, my prayers go out to all who are in authority.
Pastors can miss Gods purpose and plan just like the rest
of us. Jesus said in Matt 25:35-40 that when we feed the
hungry, give water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, and
care for the sick that we are doing these things to Him.
Thousands of people are being brought to Christ on a daily
basis through these acts of service.

[SteveL]

First off, I apologize if this post is too self-centered.

Thanks Lovex for sharing what Holy Spirit has placed on your heart. It made me think of my own self, and my own motives.

As a new Christian still, I'd had many long time Christians praise me on my maturity and wisdom. I don't know, maybe I'm just good with my Christian-ese? But my semi-mentor, who knows me quite well, left me the other night realizing how much further I have to go to mature, especially when it comes to my propensity of falling for members of the opposite sex.

I feel like I've been using Christ too much as a means for good health, prosperity in my career, healing my broken relationships, etc. I dunno... something for me to continue dialoging with God about. For example, after my last rejection I made a vow with God that I'd not try to pursue a girl for one year, as I pursue Him more. 6 months in, I was already trying to will my way into a date with a sister-in-Christ. To which my semi-mentor said he wasn't taken completely by surprise... and he asked me, "Are you more about God, or girls?"

I've had a weakness for desiring a girlfriend/lifelong partner since high school. Since I became Christian, there have been several times where I have turned a sister at my church into an idol, and I would chase winning her heart more than chasing God. I'm not proud to admit this, but it's always been my problem. Any tips on how to break this pattern? I want to renew my mind (Romans 12:2) but constantly find myself falling back into my old ways.

Open to feedback and tips from anyone, and certainly welcome prayer. Thank you. Again, sorry if this post was too self-centered, but felt the need to share with somebody and confess my sins. I want to be cleansed of this habitual sin!

[RollTide21]

Your thought process are different today because you've had 2 years to work on it.
This is what I meant in my statement. When I say these things don't change after
salvation, I simply meant they do not change the day you get saved. It's a process.
The person who makes a conscious effort to grow in Christ will take on the mind
of Christ but the person who does nothing will find that his current way of thinking,
reasoning, belief systems values etc will not change.



I tell them to get their eyes off the "worlds standards" and focus on Christ.
I encourage them to seek God for the answer to get out of debt and poverty.
One word from God will change their entire life but they need to seek Him.
Then I give them scriptural reference to show them that God cares about
their financial needs such as the following:

2 Kings 4
God sent Elisha to a widow's house to help her get out of debt.
Later in that chapter, God use Elisha to raise her child from the
dead.

2 Kings 6:1-7
God works thru Elisha again to cause a borrowed axe head to float.
This example goes along perfectly with Roman 13:8 that says to
"Owe no man nothing but to love him". Another translation states
it like this: "Pay all your debts except the debt of love for others".

Deut 8:18
Chapter 8 in Deuteronomy is a call to remember and obey. Verse 18
states to "Remember the Lord your God for it is He who gives you the
power to get wealth that He may fulfill the covenant He made with
your ancestors

Has God changed His views concerning debt? There's just too many
scriptures to list any more examples.



I agree that Jesus is whole and complete. There's nothing wrong with
Jesus. Wanting money to pay your bills and keep a roof over your
children's head does not imply that Christ is not enough. It implies
that there are needs that have to be filled while on this earth and
money is simply a tool to do that and also further the gospel. A
Christian must employ the right relationship with money so that
it does not become an idol.

I don't understand what you mean when you say the Gospel will sustain
us. How will the gospel sustain a person who's car was just repossessed
due to not having enough money to pay the note? Or sustain a family
who's light/water/gas was turned off? Or sustain a family who was just
evicted from their apartment?

The ultimate point is...

We are to submit ourselves wholly to Christ and seek Him daily. If we are abiding in Him, we will work hard and not be idle...so as to not bring shame to Christ, just as Paul says in 2 Thessalonians. Our primary objective is to be IN Christ. Materially, He will administer His Grace on us as He sees fit for His Will. That might be that He Wills us to have monetary prosperity...or His Will may be that we struggle financially (or in other ways) for some greater purpose. We are to trust that His Grace is sufficient (Romans 7) in all circumstances.

I don't see your points in this thread as you saying that money is all important. Also, I see nothing wrong with striving for monetary security. I would only say that material wealth or lack thereof is specifically dependent on the Grace of God for His Will for that individual person. We are to give thanks for and/or trust in His Grace either way.

[RollTide21]

First off, I apologize if this post is too self-centered.

Thanks Lovex for sharing what Holy Spirit has placed on your heart. It made me think of my own self, and my own motives.

As a new Christian still, I'd had many long time Christians praise me on my maturity and wisdom. I don't know, maybe I'm just good with my Christian-ese? But my semi-mentor, who knows me quite well, left me the other night realizing how much further I have to go to mature, especially when it comes to my propensity of falling for members of the opposite sex.

I feel like I've been using Christ too much as a means for good health, prosperity in my career, healing my broken relationships, etc. I dunno... something for me to continue dialoging with God about. For example, after my last rejection I made a vow with God that I'd not try to pursue a girl for one year, as I pursue Him more. 6 months in, I was already trying to will my way into a date with a sister-in-Christ. To which my semi-mentor said he wasn't taken completely by surprise... and he asked me, "Are you more about God, or girls?"

I've had a weakness for desiring a girlfriend/lifelong partner since high school. Since I became Christian, there have been several times where I have turned a sister at my church into an idol, and I would chase winning her heart more than chasing God. I'm not proud to admit this, but it's always been my problem. Any tips on how to break this pattern? I want to renew my mind (Romans 12:2) but constantly find myself falling back into my old ways.

Open to feedback and tips from anyone, and certainly welcome prayer. Thank you. Again, sorry if this post was too self-centered, but felt the need to share with somebody and confess my sins. I want to be cleansed of this habitual sin!

What is your motivation for wanting this close relationship with a girl? Is it sinful in nature (i.e. sexual)? Are you looking for someone to share in your journey of faith?

I guess my question is...if you are seeking out a sister in Christ, what is the sin? You mentioned that finding a girl has replaced finding God. How, exactly? If your motivations are pure, wouldn't this ultimately be a search for a deeper relationship with Christ?