How is faith expressed?

[MoreMercy]

Why are you shocked? Did I say that the devils practice faith? I don't think so. All I'm saying is that the Greek word for faith or belief is "mental ascent." If Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" and you believe that, you have faith.

In the context of the recent post/conversation of this particular thread BroRog, that is exactly what you shared.


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.

[BroRog]

In the context of the recent post/conversation of this particular thread BroRog, that is exactly what you shared.


Father bless, and have mercy on all of us.

I don't want to play games. James is quite clear when he says that the demons believe. James 2:9

[MoreMercy]

James is quite clear when he says that the demons believe. James 2:9

James is right-on-target. (As always)
It is you who missed the mark here BroRog. Use the Original Greek and/or Hebrew-Aramaic.
I have found that belief and faith are two different things, two separate definitions in our bible's original languages and grammar.

Belief, practical example:
I cannot swim, but I do believe the bridge crossing the river is a bridge because I see it with my own eyes and/or I can touch it.

Faith, practical example:
Even though I cannot swim, I have faith in that bridge crossing the river because I myself personally walk, ride, drive across it -->or stand upon it above the river.<--

PS: I really can swim, actually extremely well too.

I don't want to play games.

I hope this helps too: don't start playing any games that you cannot, or do not intend to finish.



Father bless, and have mercy on us.

[mailmandan]

I have found that belief and faith are two different things, two separate definitions.
James is right-on-target. (As always)
It is you who missed the mark here BroRog. Use the Original Greek and/or Hebrew-Aramaic.


Belief practical example: I cannot swim, but I do believe in a bridge crossing a river, when I see it with my own eyes or if I can touch it.

Faith practical example: I have faith in that bridge I saw or touched when I myself personally walk, ride, drive across it -->or stand upon it above the river.<--

PS: I really can swim, actually extremely well too.






I hope this helps too: don't start playing any games that you cannot, or do not intend to finish.



Father bless, and have mercy on us.

The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust *(especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ)."

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons also "believe" that there is "one God" but this passage does not say that demons believe or trust in the Savior God sent for redemption. Scripture reveals that the only thing they trusted the Son of the most high God for when He was on earth dealing with them was their eventual sentence to the lake of fire. The belief of demons in James 2:19 is only "mental assent." Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent" (James 2:19) or also include "trusting in Christ for salvation" (Acts 16:31). Saving belief is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief is a complete trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the only means of salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16).

[MoreMercy]

The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust *(especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ)."

The Greek words for "pistis" and "pisteuo" are two forms of the same word. "Pistis" is the noun form, "pisteuo" is the verb form. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons also "believe" that there is "one God" but this passage does not say that demons believe or trust in the Savior God sent for redemption. Scripture reveals that the only thing they trusted the Son of the most high God for when He was on earth dealing with them was their eventual sentence to the lake of fire. The belief of demons in James 2:19 is only "mental assent." Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

The word "believe" can describe mere "mental assent" (James 2:19) or also include "trusting in Christ for salvation" (Acts 16:31). Saving belief is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief is a complete trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the only means of salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16).

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Believe/pēstyü'ō :
Verb, To think to be true, denoting trust.
Stemming from the root of: peithō
....Please take note of the root, because this is why this word "pēstyü'ō" was chosen to be used in this passage and the word "pē'stēs/faith" was not chosen to be used here by the author, James.
(And for good reason, that I will try to share)

Root word: peithō :
To persuade, be persuaded.Primary word, no root.


Faith/pē'stēs :
Verb, To have confidence.
Stemming from the root of: pā'thō
...please take note of the root again. The root of words in the Archaic Greek are taken into account to reason why one word is used and not another word of similar meaning be used to convey the authors mind.. (Etymology)

Root word: pā'thō :
To trust, have confidence, be confident.
Primary word, no root.

My conclusion:
Devils do think/know God, have knowledge of God, and are convinced of Him.
Devils do not trust or have confidence in God.
Belief is to be persuaded into trust, faith is the result of belief, faith is trust.

I have found that belief and faith are two different things, two separate definitions in our bible's original languages and grammar.

Belief, practical example:
I cannot swim, but I do believe the bridge crossing the river is a bridge because I see it with my own eyes and/or I can touch it.
Faith, practical example:
Even though I cannot swim, I have faith in that bridge crossing the river because I myself personally walk, ride, drive across it -->or stand upon it over/above the river.<--

PS: I really can swim, actually extremely well too.


Father bless, and have mercy on us.

[BroRog]

James is right-on-target. (As always)
It is you who missed the mark here BroRog. Use the Original Greek and/or Hebrew-Aramaic.
I have found that belief and faith are two different things, two separate definitions in our bible's original languages and grammar.

Belief, practical example:
I cannot swim, but I do believe the bridge crossing the river is a bridge because I see it with my own eyes and/or I can touch it.

Faith, practical example:
Even though I cannot swim, I have faith in that bridge crossing the river because I myself personally walk, ride, drive across it -->or stand upon it above the river.<--

PS: I really can swim, actually extremely well too.






I hope this helps too: don't start playing any games that you cannot, or do not intend to finish.



Father bless, and have mercy on us.

Try finding examples from the scriptures.

[MoreMercy]

Try finding examples from the scriptures.

How about using the bible passage you used to engage me: James 2:19

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Believe/pēstyü'ō :
Verb, To think to be true, denoting trust.
Stemming from the root of: peithō
....Please take note of the root, because this is why this word "pēstyü'ō" was chosen to be used in this passage and the word "pē'stēs/faith" was not chosen to be used here by the author, James.
(And for good reason, that I will try to share)

Root word: peithō :
To persuade, be persuaded.Primary word, no root.


Faith/pē'stēs :
Verb, To have confidence.
Stemming from the root of: pā'thō
...please take note of the root again. The root of words in the Archaic Greek are taken into account to reason why one word is used and not another word of similar meaning be used to convey the authors mind.. (Etymology)

Root word: pā'thō :
To trust, have confidence, be confident.
Primary word, no root.




My conclusion:
Devils do think/know God, have knowledge of God, and are convinced of Him.
Devils do not trust or have confidence in God.
Belief is to be persuaded into trust, faith is the result of belief, faith is trust.

I have found that belief and faith are two different things, two separate definitions in our bible's original languages and grammar.

Belief, practical example:
I cannot swim, but I do believe the bridge crossing the river is a bridge because I see it with my own eyes and/or I can touch it.
Faith,practical example:
Even though I cannot swim, I have faith in that bridge crossing the river because I myself personally walk, ride, drive across it -->or stand upon it over/above the river.<--



Father bless, and have mercy on us.

[BroRog]

How about using the bible passage you used to engage me: James 2:19

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

My conclusion:
Devils do think/know God, have knowledge of God, and are convinced of Him.
Devils do not trust or have confidence in God.
Belief is to be persuaded into trust, faith is the result of belief, faith is trust.

That's right. According to your own words, Belief is NOT trust or confidence in God; it is being convinced of the truth of something, which is why James can say the devils believe. If the term "believe" actually meant "to put trust in God" then James is saying that devils put trust in God.

[mailmandan]

Originally posted by MoreMercy

My conclusion:
Devils do think/know God, have knowledge of God, and are convinced of Him.
Devils do not trust or have confidence in God.
Belief is to be persuaded into trust, faith is the result of belief, faith is trust.

There is certainly a difference between the devils "believe" and tremble (James 2:19) and "Believe" in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31). The devils believe that there is one God but they certainly don't believe "trust" in Jesus for salvation.

I have found that belief and faith are two different things, two separate definitions in our bible's original languages and grammar.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31). For by grace you have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Would you say that belief and faith in these two verses are two different things? Both belief and faith in each of these verses result in salvation.

[MoreMercy]

Originally posted by MoreMercy



There is certainly a difference between the devils "believe" and tremble (James 2:19) and "Believe" in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31). The devils believe that there is one God but they certainly don't believe "trust" in Jesus for salvation.



Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31). For by grace you have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Would you say that belief and faith in these two verses are two different things? Both belief and faith in each of these verses result in salvation.

Off the cuff I would still have to say they are used by the author for their original definition to convey the thought or mind of the author to our thoughts and mind, and that they still both have separate and different definitions
I will however have to look and compare those two passages and get back to you.
I have found that sometimes even a strict definition can be altered dependent on the context its is used in.

I will try n give you an answer by tomorrow, I had an unexpected development raise its head.


God bless ya.

[MoreMercy]

Originally posted by MoreMercy
There is certainly a difference between the devils "believe" and tremble (James 2:19) and "Believe" in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31). The devils believe that there is one God but they certainly don't believe "trust" in Jesus for salvation.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved (Acts 16:31). For by grace you have been saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8). Would you say that belief and faith in these two verses are two different things? Both belief and faith in each of these verses result in salvation.

Howdy mailmandan

When James or Paul or any of the other authors of our bible communicate in their writings, they chose which word to use purposely. When James chose to use the word believe/pisteuō and not use the word pistis or peithō all of which have very similar meanings, there was a reason they chose which word to use, it was to precisely express their thoughts to their readers, who spoke and or read archaic Greek.
Following the roots (Etymology) of the original words will show why this particular word was used and not another word used which have a similar meaning.

Or when Paul chose to use the word believe/pisteuō and not use the other two words with similar meanings, it was purposeful too.
And when Paul chose to use the word faith/pistis and not use pisteuō or peithō (again) which have very similar meanings, it was purposeful aimed at expressing His thoughts precisely as he could, sharing his mind with the readers mind leaving no room for any misunderstanding because the archaic Greek was a very precise and unchangeable language, unlike our English which every word can evolve and change in meaning and even spelling sometimes several time in one generation.
Following the roots (Etymology) of the original words will show why this particular word was used and not another word used which have a similar meaning.

Now for us to understand why Paul or James chose this word and not one of other words which have very similar meanings, we will have to follow the etymology of those archaic words. Having a grasp on or having a friend who knows archaic Greek, Hebrew and or Aramaic grammar will help a lot too, but using an accurate/older concordance and a Greek to English n Hebrew to English lexicon and dictionary will do just as good with prayer.
Following the roots (Etymology) of the original words will show why this particular word was used and not another word used have a similar meaning.

Commentaries are useless in my opinion until after you have first used and allowed the bible to comment on itself for you... The bible even in English will interpret itself for anyone who seeks Jesus in it. Not seek particular interest or knowledge in it but seek Christ Jesus in it, in every book, in every chapter, if any of us do that, even in the English then Father's Holy Spirit will amplify it in our minds once it is in our minds, but it must be in our minds first for the Holy Spirit to amplify it for us.

Anyways... I have given the call numbers to the words used.
And also offered an online like to a site that is difficult to navigate at first but has resources linked to every verse, which will allow a student of Gods word to follow the etymology and also inquire into the grammar of the original languages too so you or who-ever along with the Holy Spirit and with prayer can study to show yourselves approve to Father and not have to depend on a man to teach you Father's faithful words as they were originally presented to man.
Following the roots (Etymology) of the original words will show why this particular word was used and not another word used which have a similar meaning.

James 2:19
Thou believest(G 4100) that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe(G 4100), and tremble.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe(G 4100) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith(G 4102); and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
Many, many other resources on this link, some are slightly hidden so just click around once you find the verse or chapter you chose to feed on, and you will be soon able to navigate all this blessed site has to offer those who desire to diligently seek God in and through His words, praise and prayer.

Believe verb (G 4100) πιστεύω pisteuō ...think to be true, to persuade or be persuaded.
From the root verb (G 4102) πίστις pistis ...to be convinced, to be sure, to have faith/confidence.
From primary verb (G 3982) πείθω peithō ...to persuade a person, to accomodate or comply with person.

Faith verb (G 4102) πίστις pistis ...to be convinced, to be sure, to have faith/confidence.
From primary verb (G 3982) πείθω peithō ...to persuade a person, to accomodate or comply with another person.




I shared what I have learned from personal experience on my earlier post on this thread mailmandan, for me to answer your questions of me further would be putting myself in the position of a teacher, I would rather point you to His Holy Spirit, just you and Him seeking Father in His word to teach you.
I am not a teacher, only a disciple.
Although I will put myself in a position to be corrected by you with His words, if you think I am in error of Father's words....

Now, if you want to learn about Jesus, His identity or His purpose of restoration, then I will put myself in a position to teach you then, because I am commanded and hopefully prepared to do that, amen.


Father bless, and have mercy on us.

[mailmandan]

Originally posted by MoreMercy

When James or Paul or any of the other authors of our bible communicate in their writings, they chose which word to use purposely. When James chose to use the word believe/pisteuō and not use the word pistis or all of which have very similar meanings, there was a reason they chose which word to use, it was to precisely express their thoughts to their readers, who spoke and or read archaic Greek. Following the roots (Etymology) of the original words will show why this particular word was used and not another word used which have a similar meaning. I have found that sometimes even a strict definition can be altered dependent on the context its is used in. Although I will put myself in a position to be corrected by you with His words, if you think I am in error of Father's words....

It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page. I really don't see a need for correction. I was just making the point that the word "believe" can be used to describe a nonsaving belief (James 2:19) or a saving belief (Acts 16:31). I believe in the historical facts about George Washington, but I am not trusting in him to save my soul. I believe in the historical facts about Jesus Christ and I am also trusting in Him to save my soul. Either way, I can say that I "believe" but obviously I'm not believing in George Washington for salvation but I am believing in Christ for salvation.