WHAT is the Kingdom Christains preach about?

[TalonKarrde_X]

In what way has Christ been present for the last 100 years that He was not present the previous 1900 plus years?

He has begun to work out all those things which must be accomplished in order for this system to be brought to its conclusion. That is why we have had a marked change in the world's affairs since 1914; particularly including the two world wars. False religion has been judged, which is why we've seen people's view of religion turn the way it has (Mal 3:1-3). The preaching work, the separating work, and the completing of the full number of Israel, have all been accomplished to the full, or nearly so.

Read the following passage very carefully and then consider the statements a, b, c that follow it.

Acts 1:11- 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven

First of all, this doesn't answer my question. What purpose could this serve?

a. Jesus ascended to heaven physically and bodily.

Jesus had already been resurrected, and received a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44, also note 15:50). So, no.

b. The angels said that He would return the same way He was taken up.

Hidden by clouds? Verse 9, '...and a cloud caught him up from their vision.' (Compare Rev 1:7).

c. Therefore Jesus will return physically and visibly.

Therefore, you have been deceived.

That wouldnt make me happy at all, because that would mean you and I both missed the Resurrection.

Well, we're not dead yet. But, the resurrection happens in stages; and, in fact, even the first stage is not completed yet. I already cited 1 Cororinthians 15:23-24, which shows that there are 2 stages. The first resurrection commences at Christ's return, but then continues as necessary until completed (1 Thes 4:16-17, Rev 20:5b), then the second resurrection occurs when the memorial tombs are emptied as in John 5:28-29, but those ones resurrected through that resurrection don't come to 'life' until the end of the thousand years, as per 1 Corinthians 15:24, but also Revelation 20:5a.

You might be happy to know that it is possible for a person to know that they have eternal life right now. The entire epistle of 1 John tells us how. Please read the following scripture.

1 John 5: 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life

Ok, now I know what you are referring to. This does not pertain to us, however. This only pertains to those who are patterned after Christ (Rom 8:29). So, Romans 8:16 is the answer to your question - God's spirit allows those ones to know.

[glad4mercy]

He has begun to work out all those things which must be accomplished in order for this system to be brought to its conclusion. That is why we have had a marked change in the world's affairs since 1914; particularly including the two world wars. False religion has been judged, which is why we've seen people's view of religion turn the way it has (Mal 3:1-3). The preaching work, the separating work, and the completing of the full number of Israel, have all been accomplished to the full, or nearly so.

I will address this quote later. I want to address the other points first and separately.

First of all, this doesn't answer my question. What purpose could this serve?

Do I have to give a detailed explaination of why Jesus is returning the same way He departed, or isn't it good enough that the Bible says that He is coming again and every eye will see Him? I could give you reasons for His visible and bodily return, but you will produce convoluted arguments against them, so let's just establish whether or not the Bible says He is coming visibly first.

If He does not come back visibly, how will every eye see Him?

Revelation 1:7- Behold , he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn , and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Jesus had already been resurrected, and received a spiritual body (1 Cor 15:44, also note 15:50). So, no.

What I meant was that Jesus will come again in His Exalted state and He will be visible. Jesus resurrected body is not the same as our flesh and blood bodies of course, but it is a body. So what I meant to say is that Jesus will return visibly and bodily. ( Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:30)

Hidden by clouds? Verse 9, '...and a cloud caught him up from their vision.' (Compare Rev 1:7).

Acts 1: 11 Which also said , Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner [B]as ye have seen him go into heaven[/B]

His ascension was not invisible, so His Coming will not be invisible either.

Therefore, you have been deceived.

As I said, I meant to say that Christ will return visibly and bodily. I should have used the word "bodily" to avoid confusion.

Well, we're not dead yet. But, the resurrection happens in stages; and, in fact, even the first stage is not completed yet. I already cited 1 Cororinthians 15:23-24, which shows that there are 2 stages. The first resurrection commences at Christ's return, but then continues as necessary until completed (1 Thes 4:16-17, Rev 20:5b), then the second resurrection occurs when the memorial tombs are emptied as in John 5:28-29, but those ones resurrected through that resurrection don't come to 'life' until the end of the thousand years, as per 1 Corinthians 15:24, but also Revelation 20:5a.

1 Thessalonians 4- 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again , even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep . 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever bewith the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

a. Christ returns
b. The dead in Christ rise first.
c. Those in Christ who are alive and remain are caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

This is the Resurrection that I am waiting for. Which one are you waiting for?

Ok, now I know what you are referring to. This does not pertain to us, however. This only pertains to those who are patterned after Christ (Rom 8:29). So, Romans 8:16 is the answer to your question - God's spirit allows those ones to know.

a. Which of the five things that I listed do not pertain to true believers in general? Please specify and explain.

b. Are you saying that you do not believe that all true believers are patterned after Christ?

1 John 5: 4- For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God

[guestman]

Where did I say I despised God's name? I merely said I referred to God as "Father" when I prayed. I do pray for the name of YHWH to be sanctified, and His Name is sanctified when we are obedient to Him by trusting and following Jesus, and when others come to know Him in a personal relationship through salvation. You have read my posts, and you know that I often use the Tetragrammaton when I refer to God, so obviously I don't despise His name. Baruch HaShem.

Some, such as yourself, may occasionally use the Tetragrammaton (Hebrew יהוה, YHWH, rendered as Jehovah in English from the Latin consonants JHVH), but does this imply that you are one of Jehovah's witnesses ? As a nation, the Israelites were called his witnesses, for at Isaiah 43:10, Jehovah says: "You are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me, and that you may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none."

These bore the name of Jehovah as the one true God, being his witnesses. Are you doing that, standing up and defending Jehovah as the one "true God", making known his name ? The one whom you call "God", Jesus, said to the "only true God" (John 17:3), Jehovah in prayer: "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world.....And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them."(John 17:6, 26) Are you following Jesus example to ' make known Jehovah's name' as Jesus did, who called himself "the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God" ?(Rev 3:14)

The apostle Paul, quoting from Joel 2:32, said: "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”(Rom 10:13) Joel 2:32 says: "And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will prove to be the escaped ones, just as Jehovah has said, and in among the survivors, whom Jehovah is calling.” Thus, only those who "call on the name of Jehovah will get away safe" by exercising faith in that name, "will be saved". Just occasionally using the Tetragrammaton is not ' calling on the name of Jehovah'.

[glad4mercy]

Some, such as yourself, may occasionally use the Tetragrammaton (Hebrew יהוה, YHWH, rendered as Jehovah in English from the Latin consonants JHVH), but does this imply that you are one of Jehovah's witnesses ? As a nation, the Israelites were called his witnesses, for at Isaiah 43:10, Jehovah says: "You are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me, and that you may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none."

These bore the name of Jehovah as the one true God, being his witnesses. Are you doing that, standing up and defending Jehovah as the one "true God", making known his name ? The one whom you call "God", Jesus, said to the "only true God" (John 17:3), Jehovah in prayer: "I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world.....And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them."(John 17:6, 26) Are you following Jesus example to ' make known Jehovah's name' as Jesus did, who called himself "the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God" ?(Rev 3:14)

The apostle Paul, quoting from Joel 2:32, said: "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”(Rom 10:13) Joel 2:32 says: "And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will prove to be the escaped ones, just as Jehovah has said, and in among the survivors, whom Jehovah is calling.” Thus, only those who "call on the name of Jehovah will get away safe" by exercising faith in that name, "will be saved". Just occasionally using the Tetragrammaton is not ' calling on the name of Jehovah'.

I call on my Father every day. He doesnt care if I call Him Jehovah, Father, Abba, Lord, Father God, or God, because I am His. The Jews already knew YHWH's name, so I don't think that Jesus meant that He revealed the name of God as in the letters that are put together to form His Name, for that was already revealed to Moses long before. Jesus is saying that He has revealed the character and nature that lies behind the Blessed Name, ( Baruch HaShem). In other words, Jesus did not just give us a tetragrammaton to speak, He revealed the Father Himself.

John 14:9- Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

What does Paul mean in 1 Corinthians 1:2 when he says that he is writing to everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus Christ? The verb "call upon" is epikaleo in both 1 Corinthians 1:2 and Romans 10:13.

Are you certain that Jehovah is the correct pronounciation of YHWH? It really has no bearing on what I am saying, but I am just curious.

[guestman]

Well at one point it was believed to be Charles Taze Russell

Charles Taze Russell never considered himself alone as the "faithful and wise servant"(Matt 24:45, King James Bible), but recognized that he was only an instrument through which spiritual food would be come. Thus, in the October-November 1881 issue of the Watchtower magazine, C.*T.*Russell stated: “We believe that every member of this body of Christ is engaged in the blessed work, either directly or indirectly, of giving meat in due season to the household of faith. ‘Who then is that faithful and wise servant whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household,’ to give them meat in due season?"

"Is it not that ‘little flock’ of consecrated servants who are faithfully carrying out their consecration vows—the body of Christ—and is not the whole body individually and collectively, giving the meat in due [s]eason to the household of faith—the great company of believers? Blessed is that servant (the whole body of Christ) whom his Lord when he has come (Greek elthon) shall find so doing. ‘Verily, I say unto you, that he shall make him ruler over all his goods.’”

Over a decade later, however, Charles Taze Russell’s wife publicly expressed the idea that Russell himself was the faithful and wise servant. The view that she voiced concerning the identity of the ‘faithful servant’ came to be generally held by the Bible Students for some 30 years. Charles Taze Russell did not reject their view, but he personally avoided making such an application of the text, emphasizing his opposition to the idea of a clergy class commissioned to teach God’s Word in contrast to a lay class that was not thus commissioned. The understanding expressed by Charles Taze Russell in 1881 that the faithful and wise servant was in reality a collective servant, made up of all the members of the spirit-anointed body of Christ on earth, was reaffirmed in The Watchtower of February 15, 1927.

[glad4mercy]

Guestman and Talonkarrde, would you mind answering the following questions...

1. Do you have a personal relationship with the Father and Jesus Christ whom He sent?
2. Have all your sins been forgiven?
3. Have your sins been washed away and taken away by Jesus?
4. Are you free from all condemnation?
5. Have you received the Holy Spirit.
6. Do you know that you have eternal life?

[guestman]

I call on my Father every day. He doesnt care if I call Him Jehovah, Father, Abba, Lord, Father God, or God, because I am His. The Jews already knew YHWH's name, so I don't think that Jesus meant that He revealed the name of God as in the letters that are put together to form His Name, for that was already revealed to Moses long before. Jesus is saying that He has revealed the character and nature that lies behind the Blessed Name, ( Baruch HaShem). In other words, Jesus did not just give us a tetragrammaton to speak, He revealed the Father Himself.

John 14:9- Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

What does Paul mean in 1 Corinthians 1:2 when he says that he is writing to everyone who calls upon the name of Jesus Christ? The verb "call upon" is epikaleo in both 1 Corinthians 1:2 and Romans 10:13.

Are you certain that Jehovah is the correct pronounciation of YHWH? It really has no bearing on what I am saying, but I am just curious.

Oh yes it does matter of failing to "call on the name of Jehovah" , for only by doing so can a person gain an intimate relationship with God. At Joel 2:32, it is established that only those who "who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe." All others will not be saved.

Jesus revealed his Father's name of Jehovah, with all it's importance to his disciples. He did not hide or water down God's name and it's holy meaning. Almost 2000 years earlier, Abraham, upon entering the land of Canaan, "pitched his tent with Beth´el on the west and A´i on the east. Then he built an altar there to Jehovah and began to call on the name of Jehovah."(Gen 15:8)

Later, upon leaving Egypt and going north, Abraham again went "to the place of the altar that he had made there originally (between Bethel and Ai); and A´bram proceeded to call there on the name of Jehovah."(Gen 13:4) Still later, Isaac, Abraham's son, moved to Beersheba (west of the Dead Sea), in which Genesis 26:24, 25 says: "And Jehovah proceeded to appear to him during that night and to say: “I am the God of Abraham your father. Do not be afraid, because I am with you, and I will bless you and multiply your seed on account of Abraham my servant.” Accordingly he built an altar there and called on the name of Jehovah and pitched his tent there."

Over 800 years later, after David had brought the ark of the covenant to the "City of David", he sang in glee: "Give thanks to Jehovah, you people; call upon his name, make his deeds known among the peoples!.....Make your boast in his holy name....He is Jehovah our God; in all the earth are his judicial decisions."(1 Chron 16:8, 10, 14) David was unashamed of using and making known Jehovah's name, even gleefully singing about it, saying that "He is Jehovah our God." David wrote in the Psalms: "For you, O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive; And the loving-kindness to all those calling upon you is abundant."(Ps 86:5)

At 1 Corinthians 1:2, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians, that "to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." Is there a conflict here regarding who we are to ' call upon ' ? No. It is through Jesus we call upon Jehovah, for did not Jesus say: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."(John 14:6)

Thus, our prayers are directed to Jehovah God through Jesus Christ, even as he prayed to Jehovah, "offering up supplications and petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear".(Heb 5:7) Because of his unswerving loyalty to Jehovah God, Paul furthers says that Jesus "has been specifically called by God a high priest according to the manner of Melchizedek."(Heb 5:10)

And as for the correct pronunciation of God's name, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), it is not possible to establish it with certainty, for God's name has been vowel pointed five different ways. However, because the name Jehovah has become established and has the four letters of Hebrew, YHWH, transliterated into Latin and later into English, it is now acceptable to use as God's name.

In the future, when faithful servants of Jehovah are resurrected back to life on the earth, then the correct pronunciation can then he ascertained.(John 5:28, 29) It need also be understood that all of the names in the Hebrew Scriptures cannot be ascertained as accurate with certainly, for ancient Hebrew only had consonants, no vowels.

[Dani H]

I really like the passage in Micah 6:7-8 'Will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, with tens of thousands of torrents of oil? Shall I give my firstborn son for my revolt, the fruitage of my belly for the sin of my soul? He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God.'

However, we have to ask, why does verse 7 connect the sacrificing of the firstborn with the worship of Jehovah? Consider also Jeremiah 32:35, 'Furthermore, they built the high places of Ba'al that are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through the fire to Molech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.' Here, Ba'al worship and Molech worship are spoken of, seemingly, interchangeably. And, while both refer, ultimately, to the worship of Nimrod, which was begun in Babylon, it is interesting to note the meaning of these two 'names'. 'Ba'al' is Hebrew for 'Lord', and 'Molech' means 'King'.

Thus, while the pagan nations took their religion from Babylon, and gave their worship to Nimrod indirectly through the somewhat anonymous titles of Lord and King, this made it easy for the Israelites to accept these false forms of worship. They simply slid into using 'Lord' or 'King' as substitutes for God's name. And, thus, the worship of Yahweh, became the worship of the Lord. It is sobering to consider that 'Christians' today worship the Lord, just as was done in Bible times.

So you can see from Scripture that Jehovah God strongly condemns human sacrifice as detestable, correct?

[glad4mercy]

Oh yes it does matter of failing to "call on the name of Jehovah" , for only by doing so can a person gain an intimate relationship with God. At Joel 2:32, it is established that only those who "who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe." All others will not be saved. Jesus revealed his Father's name of Jehovah, with all it's importance to his disciples. He did not hide or water down God's name and it's holy meaning. Almost 2000 years earlier, Abraham, upon entering the land of Canaan, "pitched his tent with Beth´el on the west and A´i on the east. Then he built an altar there to Jehovah and began to call on the name of Jehovah."(Gen 15:8) Later, upon leaving Egypt and going north, Abraham again went "to the place of the altar that he had made there originally (between Bethel and Ai); and A´bram proceeded to call there on the name of Jehovah."(Gen 13:4) Still later, Isaac, Abraham's son, moved to Beersheba (west of the Dead Sea), in which Genesis 26:24, 25 says: "And Jehovah proceeded to appear to him during that night and to say: “I am the God of Abraham your father. Do not be afraid, because I am with you, and I will bless you and multiply your seed on account of Abraham my servant.” Accordingly he built an altar there and called on the name of Jehovah and pitched his tent there."Over 800 years later, after David had brought the ark of the covenant to the "City of David", he sang in glee: "Give thanks to Jehovah, you people; call upon his name, make his deeds known among the peoples!.....Make your boast in his holy name....He is Jehovah our God; in all the earth are his judicial decisions."(1 Chron 16:8, 10, 14) David was unashamed of using and making known Jehovah's name, even gleefully singing about it, saying that "He is Jehovah our God." David wrote in the Psalms: "For you, O Jehovah, are good and ready to forgive; And the loving-kindness to all those calling upon you is abundant."(Ps 86:5) At 1 Corinthians 1:2, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians, that "to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." Is there a conflict here regarding who we are to ' call upon ' ? No. It is through Jesus we call upon Jehovah, for did not Jesus say: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."(John 14:6) Thus, our prayers are directed to Jehovah God through Jesus Christ, even as he prayed to Jehovah, "offering up supplications and petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear".(Heb 5:7) Because of his unswerving loyalty to Jehovah God, Paul furthers says that Jesus "has been specifically called by God a high priest according to the manner of Melchizedek."(Heb 5:10)And as for the correct pronunciation of God's name, the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), it is not possible to establish it with certainty, for God's name has been vowel pointed five different ways. However, because the name Jehovah has become established and has the four letters of Hebrew, YHWH, transliterated into Latin and later into English, it is now acceptable to use as God's name. In the future, when faithful servants of Jehovah are resurrected back to life on the earth, then the correct pronunciation can then he ascertained.(John 5:28, 29) It need also be understood that all of the names in the Hebrew Scriptures cannot be ascertained as accurate with certainly, for ancient Hebrew only had consonants, no vowels.

I'm not going to debate this with you. You can take the issue up with Jesus who instructed us to pray in this manner... "Our Father who art in Heaven..." I think I'll follow His teachings and His model, as He is the First and The Last. Baruch HaShem!

[MyRock]

All I can say to you, is that, for myself, I read and study the Bible, and that all of my understanding is based firmly in the Scriptures. If there's anything that you want to understand from the Bible, I can offer to share what I do know. But, I'm not really interested in discussions beyond that - if you take my meaning.

It seems to me you have understanding on what the Watchtower tells you about the scriptures. The scriptures you read have been translated by The Watchtower and then they tell you what they mean.

The bible says we are to test all things to see if they are so. You guys cannot test the watchtower's teachings because you are discouraged from doing so. You are told just to believe what they hand down to you. I myself could not believe what the Watchtower says because I don't have a fair idea that what is taught now, won't be different in the future. How do I then know that the new light is not itself going to change again. It's all well and good to say "but they have said that it's new light from God", but how do you know? Because the watchtower tells you so.

I do get your meaning. You want me to discuss the bible, but I don't believe that is the issue. I think the issue is that the watchtower is untrustworthy because it has repeatedly got prophesy wrong again and again. It changes it's doctrines on blood transfusions, birthdays and organ donation. It even changed the translation, with differences in the standard texts. You cannot look at the watchtower with any critical eye, because you are told not to. You can't have a personal knowledge of God because it all comes from an organisation.

Now this is what God means to me (if you'll indulge me).

God is my saviour and Lord. I am a sinner, but God saved me. Jesus Christ died (cross, torture stake, whatever) so that I can have my sins forgiven. I have eternal life as it says in John 3:16
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. (NWT)

When I got on my knees and asked for God's forgiveness, I realised that I do not have to worry about my life and what happens after it anymore. Jesus paid the price for my sin, so the intimacy that Adam and Eve had in the garden is restored to it's rightful (righteous? ) place.

I can pray to God and He hears me. I see Him working every day in my life. The meaning of life seems so clear to me now! I have a purpose. God made me and now I can come into His presence.

I have assurance, that God knows what's best for me and I do not worry about what I read or see which is contrary to God, I KNOW He exists.

I have liberty to check all facts. You guys do have the option, but you can't take it, just in case you loose everything (friends, family etc).

8 Why, for that matter, I do indeed also consider all things to be loss on account of the excelling value of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. On account of him I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in union with him, having, not my own righteousness, which results from law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that issues from God on the basis of faith, (NWT)

You are told not to listen to anything which goes against the discreet slaves teachings, I can listen to other people and their lack of respect for God. I can enter another place of worship of a differing religion, I can look online at other view points on God, to test it. I am able to read pamphlets on other faiths. I have made up my own mind on God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
You can too. It's not a fault finding attitude, it's an open mind. That's how everyone comes to faith in Christ, a mind open to the possibility that what they have been following is wrong.

[glad4mercy]

Guestman and Talonkarrde, would you mind answering the following questions...

1. Do you have a personal relationship with the Father and Jesus Christ whom He sent?
2. Have all your sins been forgiven?
3. Have your sins been washed away and taken away by Jesus?
4. Are you free from all condemnation?
5. Have you received the Holy Spirit.
6. Do you know that you have eternal life?

1. So have you gentlemen received the blessings that Jesus paid for with His Death?

2. BTW, why is Jesus blood only sufficient to purchase 144,000? Are you limiting the value of the atonement?

3. Talonkarrde, did you say that only the 144,000 receive the Holy Spirit in the "Questions" thread? If this is what you said, how can regular Jehovah's Witnesses possibly be empowered to witness?

a. Acts 1: 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit

b. Acts 1:8- But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

4. It is the Holy Spirit, Who was sent by Jesus, that gives power to witness...

Luke 24: 46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.48 You are witnesses of these things.49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

5. Don't forget that no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. ( 1 Corinthians 12: 3), and if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, He is none of His. (Romans 8:9)

Therefore the teaching that some believers receive the Holy Spirit while others do not is thoroughly unscriptural.

[guestman]

Guestman and Talonkarrde, would you mind answering the following questions...

1. Do you have a personal relationship with the Father and Jesus Christ whom He sent?
2. Have all your sins been forgiven?
3. Have your sins been washed away and taken away by Jesus?
4. Are you free from all condemnation?
5. Have you received the Holy Spirit.
6. Do you know that you have eternal life?

Yes, I have a personal relationship with the Father, for just as loyal servants of God in the past had and were unashamed to use his name, telling others about it, so likewise have I, through Jesus Christ by bringing my life, actions, and beliefs into harmony with the Sacred Scriptures. How can anyone say that they have a relationship with another person and not use their personal name when speaking about him or her ?

David wrote: "O Jehovah, who will be a guest in your tent ? Who will reside in your holy mountain ? He who is walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness and speaking the truth in his heart.....those fearing Jehovah he honors."(Ps 15:1, 2, 4) He further said: "Who, now, is the man fearful of Jehovah ? He will instruct him in the way that he will choose.....The intimacy with Jehovah belongs to those fearful of him....My eyes are constantly toward Jehovah."(Ps 25:12, 14, 15)

You are referring to Acts 2:38 concerning forgiveness of sins, in which some Pentecostals place as having more value than the rest of the Bible. I receive forgiveness of my sins as long as I continue to please Jehovah God, exercising faith (not just believing) in Jesus perfect shed blood. (Matt 26:28)

Only complete forgiveness will be at the end of the "thousand year" reign of Christ Jesus (Rev 20:6) when a person measures up in loyalty as Jesus has, attaining "to the oneness in the faith and in the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ."(Eph 4:13) At that time, Jehovah "will certainly swallow up the face of the envelopment that is enveloping over all the peoples, and the woven work that is interwoven upon all the nations", or sin that ' envelops ' all of us, "woven" throughout us, and results in death.(Isa 25:7, 8)

Thus, my sins have not been "washed away", for I still am subject to sickness and death. Some feel that upon baptism, that their sins have been "washed away". This, however, is not the case, for the apostle Peter wrote: "That which corresponds to this ( the saving of Noah and his family through the ark, 1 Pet 3:20) is also now saving you, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."(1 Pet 3:21) Baptism begins our "request made to God for a good conscience", leading down the road to life everlasting.(Matt 7:14)

The ark was tangible evidence that Noah had dedicated himself to do God’s will and had then faithfully done the work assigned by God. This led to his preservation. In a corresponding way, those who would dedicate themselves to Jehovah God on the basis of faith in the resurrected Christ, get baptized in symbol of that, and do God’s will for his servants would be saved from the present wicked world. (Gal 1:3,*4) No longer would they be headed for destruction with the rest of the world. They would be saved from this and would be granted a good conscience by God.

Of the holy spirit, the apostle Peter told the Sanhedrin: "The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew, hanging him upon a stake. God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”(Acts 5:30-32)

Those who become obedient to Jehovah God receive the holy spirit, displaying it's fruitage.(Gal 5:22, 23) These show godly love (John 13:34, 35), and are "no part of the world" (John 15:19), not meddling in the political arena, nor teaching religious doctrines that are false nor involving themselves in greedy commercialism. These allow God's spirit to direct them, as Jesus did.(Luke 4:1, 14) As a result, these follow through on making known "the good news of the kingdom" as Jesus established for true Christians.(Matt 24:14; Luke 8:1) I am doing this, allowing the holy spirit to direct me. Are you doing likewise ?

The hope of living forever, whether in heaven or on the earth, is only for those who loyally worship Jehovah God (Matt 4:10; 22:37), even as Jesus worshiped him.(John 4:22, 23) I have that hope, of living forever on the paradise earth (Ps 37:11, 29), as long as I continue ' obeying God as ruler '.(Acts 5:32)

[guestman]

I'm not going to debate this with you. You can take the issue up with Jesus who instructed us to pray in this manner... "Our Father who art in Heaven..." I think I'll follow His teachings and His model, as He is the First and The Last. Baruch HaShem!

Jesus said more than just "Our Father who art in heaven", but said: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified."(Matt 6:9) Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God's name of Jehovah to be "hallowed" or sanctified. True Christians wants God's name - Jehovah - to be cleansed of all reproach heaped upon it over the course of human history, especially that which the churches of Christendom have done, murdering in "God's name", such as Pope Innocent III in 1209 C.E. who gave the command to slaughter some 20,000 men, women and children in Beziers, France, at the hands of some 300,000 crusaders, led by prelates of the Catholic Church.

[shepherdsword]

Interesting that you put it that way. Core doctrine of the WTBS has not changed. Right from the first issue of the Watchtower in 1879, the primary beliefs that God exists, His name is Jehovah, the Bible is God's word, the Trinity, Immortality of the soul, Hellfire, Resurrection, Ransom, Fate, God's kingdom, Christ's presence, were all there and in place. None of these things has changed, and the understanding of them and their related details have continually increased.

Meanwhile, the churches of Christendom have waffled all over the place. They are truly a ship cast about by the waves. While their teachings have become rank Wormwood (Rev 8). (Also consider Mal 3:17-18).

Watchtower of July through October 1879:

• we are living “in the last days” - “the day of the Lord”
• ZION’S WATCH TOWER ... is in bondage to no man, no party and to no creed but the Bible
• as the “Herald of Christ’s Presence,” to give the “meat in due season”
• preaching the Word
• Christ’s words are true: “I and my Father are one”-one in purpose and in work.
• The salvation from death is secured to all by the Ransom
• “Zion’s Watch Tower” has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer,
• The truth is revealed in a progressive manner
• the “little flock,” ... will ... be given spiritual bodies
• Adam never had a spiritual body: it could not therefore be restored

Let's look at some of the false prophecies of the Watchtower but first let us examine it's claim:

"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal on earth because God is the author."(W.T. April 15, 1943 pg.127)

"Franz testified in court on Oct.15 1931 that "Jehovah God" is the editor of the Watchtower

If God is it's author and "editor" where did this come from?:

1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
1899 "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

It is clear that the Watchtower is a false prophet organization without any divine inspiration whatsoever.

[Bandit]

...
Only complete forgiveness will be at the end of the "thousand year" reign of Christ Jesus (Rev 20:6) when a person measures up ...

Thus, my sins have not been "washed away", for I still am subject to sickness and death. ...

Wow! (Not much else to say.)