What are you doing to prepare for the Tribulation?

[Gadgeteer]

I believe the tribulation will only be 3.5 years long, not 7 years. I believe Africa will be relatively safe compared to the West. I'm just staying here in Africa.

Hah! What part of Africa? And --- do you have a guest room???

I have a Freeplay radio, made in South Africa, originally designed for people like Bushmen, who cannot run down to a corner store and buy batteries. Therefore, a wind-up radio with a shortwave band, he can tune in the world!

[Gadgeteer]

I'd go along with that although my take is a little different:

Assuming (not arguing) Christians will go through at least part of the tribulation,

Well, I'm new to the board --- but if we disagree, I hope we can discuss it with love and respect. As I said, "rapture timing" is not a critical issue. I'm more concerned with how strong each person is in Christ, so that WHATEVER happens, each of us would stand.

Suppose I was "Pre-Wrath", and you or someone was "Pre-Trib"; if you were to assure me that Jesus is foremost in your life, and that your faith would survive no matter what happens, my heart would be at peace with you, and I would look forward to worshiping Jesus with you for all eternity.

...it would also be fair to assume it won't happen overnight. I don't think it's going to be a "zap" and it's all in place kind of thing but rather a gradual "slipping away" of all things we hold dear - things like freedom - until we wake up one morning and realize it's gone. I believe it has already started as many others do.

It has. In May 2005 they passed "Real ID", which is a global standardized identification. Our local driver's licenses changed to include fingerprints. The next step was to be "RFID", a radio frequency transponder accessible from 100 feet or more away. You'd walk into a store and the STORE would identify you, and monitor which aisle you shopped on and what you bought ("demographics") --- and direct market to you. Rather like the movie, "Minority Report".

We have opted out of RFID for now. But the next obvious step after RFID, is to implant the RFID device in someone's hand or forehead.

The removal of freedoms, persecution of Christians is not new. It's been happening since antiquity. It's just going to get a whole lot worse over time and it's going to keep getting worse but I don't believe (purely from a logistical perspective) it could happen in a day.

If that is true, then there is a case to be made for making preparations, knowing full well that as the reign of the AC tightens, it will eventually become impossible to hide or escape - the key word being "eventually".

I think this is a very reasonable and honorable position --- agree strongly.

To put it differently, if (and I'm not saying it's a sure thing) by preparing one could get through the first year or two years (or longer?) relatively "untouched" would it not be a worthwhile endeavor to try?

The Boy Scouts teach "BE PREPARED"; it does seem reasonable to be more like the ants in the childhood-fair-tale, than the grasshopper.

We are taught to respect life, to hold onto it because it's precious. If anything we do can enable us to live one day, one week longer - if only to rescue one more soul.

Some of the most beautiful words in all of Scripture for me are the words in Esther. We should try.

Very good post! :-)

[Gadgeteer]

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Recognize that you're using the Textus Receptus, "King James" --- kataxioo, "counted worthy". Later Greek uses "katischuo", have strength. Both translations use "ekpheugo", flee-away-from. So that's a relevant question --- why would we have strength (and why would we have to flee-from), if we are to be rescued out of?

The part about "flee to the wilderness" is how I'm leaning; perhaps the antichrist will be so busy trying to run the world he won't have time to pursue those in the wilderness...

The Bible does not pin down one particular place as the Place of Safety, but there are indications. If it is not in the place that is indicated, then the Bible gives us no clue as to where it is. Obviously, that is no problem, one will only get there with great faith anyhoo.

A valid and honorable position! WHATEVER happens, we must have faith.

See --- you and I can be WRONG. But God never is. If something happens that we planned on NOT happening, are we adaptable to survive? If I was planning on a "Pre-Trib-Rapture", but suddenly realized from things in the world that the Tribulation has BEGUN (and no one had been raptured yet), would I feel that God has forsaken me? Or would I realize that I'd just made a mistake, and turn to Him even more strongly?

THAT is my motivation. To speak words of encouragement and strength in Christ. To drive people deeper into Scripture and closer to God, and to promote fellowship between believer.

I want to WIN --- but not the debate, I want to win each of you, as brothers and sisters, forever. If something we have discussed here comes to your mind in a time of need and strengthens you, helping you to endure, then in God's eyes I am a success. And if any (or all!) of you encourage me when I need it, then I am twice blessed.

This is as honorable and kind and loving as I know how to be.

[John 8:32]

Recognize that you're using the Textus Receptus, "King James" --- kataxioo, "counted worthy". Later Greek uses "katischuo", have strength. Both translations use "ekpheugo", flee-away-from. So that's a relevant question --- why would we have strength (and why would we have to flee-from), if we are to be rescued out of?

Yes I am aware of the having the strength, but glad you pointed it out for others. This will not be easy...

Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

The part about "flee to the wilderness" is how I'm leaning; perhaps the antichrist will be so busy trying to run the world he won't have time to pursue those in the wilderness...

I see this differently...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Water here being a type of armies.

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There will be those 'left behind', but not from a rapture, from a flight to a place of safety in the wilderness.

Just another note here, what is the testimony of Jesus Christ?

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

A valid and honorable position! WHATEVER happens, we must have faith.

See --- you and I can be WRONG. But God never is. If something happens that we planned on NOT happening, are we adaptable to survive? If I was planning on a "Pre-Trib-Rapture", but suddenly realized from things in the world that the Tribulation has BEGUN (and no one had been raptured yet), would I feel that God has forsaken me? Or would I realize that I'd just made a mistake, and turn to Him even more strongly?

THAT is my motivation. To speak words of encouragement and strength in Christ. To drive people deeper into Scripture and closer to God, and to promote fellowship between believer.

I want to WIN --- but not the debate, I want to win each of you, as brothers and sisters, forever. If something we have discussed here comes to your mind in a time of need and strengthens you, helping you to endure, then in God's eyes I am a success. And if any (or all!) of you encourage me when I need it, then I am twice blessed.

This is as honorable and kind and loving as I know how to be.

I think sometimes others on this board feel as if I am using barbs and digs and personal attacks, but nothing could be further from the truth. My purpose is to get others to really dig into the scripture and just believe what God says, unshaded by preconceived ideas they have heard all their lives.

[Gadgeteer]

We could all hang out at the "Porn Bunker"!

Yes indeed, the porn industry is taking steps to make sure they survive the coming tribulations too. If they only knew....

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/...ground-bunker/

Sigh.

You know, I feel so strongly against porn --- I will not shop at ANY bookstore that sells it (which is most!), or any gas station, etcetera. I'm going to have to ask for forgiveness in advance for saying this --- but --- I actually would like to see a little bit of "Sodom and Gomorrah style destruction" if one of those asteroids hits the porn studios. I seem to remember an earthquake hitting a high porn making area some years ago; would anyone be convicted if destruction hit again?

How many women and children would be saved from harm if we could abolish porn?

This is one of those times when I long for Jesus to return and abolish sinful actions.

[Gadgeteer]

Hello Eric. Still trying to create division among the brethren I see. Now I understand why you didn't reply to my question in my topic as to who you are. After ten years you probably thought I'd forgotten you, but it's not that difficult to remember someone who gets banned from almost every board they join.

Keifer. I am not Eric. I've never posted as "Eric". I never got banned from the message board ten years ago, and have not "been banned from every board I join". I've only been banned from a couple boards, and only THEN because I was trying to get one poster to stop being hateful and nasty, and that was against the rules.

How many times have I told you Eric, you don't catch flies with vinegar, and you don't win souls with debate (Romans 1:29). No, you're not being confrontational with unfruitful Rapture arguments yet, but I'll wait. I know it's coming.

"God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, umnerciful, and although they know the ordinance of God that those who practice these things are worthy of death, they not only do the same but also give hearty approval to those who practice them." Romans1:28-32

You know, I was genuinely glad to "see" you. I don't remember this side of you; perhaps we did not interact closely before. There is a saying, "It takes a lifetime to build a reputation, and only one night to tear it down". And it's not just one's own actions that can destroy a reputation, but it can be a false charge by someone else.

Look back at my posts --- do you see a desire for "confrontational and unfruitful fighting"? These posts are typical of my attitude. I was going to reply to you by PM after the 7 days when my "PM box" got activated; and every post I've been making here has taken 15-30 minutes to make. I can't afford high-speed internet, some sites just don't work with dialup.

I respectfully, humbly and gently suggest we establish facts before accusations, lest either you or I run afoul of even one of the Ten.

Agreed?

And "debate" is a valid action. John wrote his testament to "convince the reader that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and BELIEVING we may have life in His name". Jn20:31. Paul engaged in debate and persuading people to become Christian, Acts26:28-29. Neither you nor I have all the answers. Each person who interacts with me, allows me to see the world through his or her eyes --- now narrow my view would be without that sight. We don't have to agree; but if we can interact between professed brothers and sisters here, with LOVE, then surely we can use those skills before a world that is far more hateful towards Christ.

[Keifer]

You know, I was genuinely glad to "see" you.

I appreciate that, so why be evasive?

Keifer. I am not Eric.

In that case, my question in my topic stands: If you know me from ten years ago, who are you?

[Reynolds357]

Hi, "Reynolds". I can't imagine making "mobile" work; it would have to include a powered vehicle, and you wouldn't be able to buy gas.

If you have a hideout that is hidden (sounds like something from the "Department of Redundancy Department", doesn't it?), remote, the minions might not know about it... I do. Like I said, I can give you clear and conclusive Scriptures both supporting "Pre-Wrath" and answering "Pre-Trib", if anyone is interested in a gentle and non-hostile discussion... I saw one of the "Leftbehind" movies, they had a group of people hiding in the mountains, a kind of a camp. Not sure how they weren't seen by the satellites.

BTW, the whole "Leftbehind" concept, is based on Matt24:40-41; the "taken" are thought to be righteous, and the "leftbehind" are unsaved. But --- in the mirror passage, Lk17:34-37, the "taken" ones are thrown to vultures! The LEFTBEHIND ones are the RIGHTEOUS!

....things that make you say "HHHMMmmm"...

By mobile, I mean a tent, back pack, and a pair of boots.

[Gadgeteer]

By mobile, I mean a tent, back pack, and a pair of boots.

Ah, I misunderstood.

If I understand some things in Revelation correctly, the Earth will be hit with a comet that will kill a third of the land, a meteor that will kill a third of the ocean, and something like blood fire and hail which will kill another third of the land. (Rev8.) The only thing that will make sense is "stored food", which to me means "bunker".

I bought a book once called "Christians Will Go Through the Tribulation" --- the second half of it was on survivalist stuff. His "Pre-Wrath Rapture" argument was sound, though I don't think he made connections like Jn17:15 and Rev3:10.

I confess I haven't fully decided the right approach. Clearly those who say "Trust God" are right.

Maybe I am being led to buy some storable food.

Do you all know about the comet and meteor coming in October/November? Although, I just heard the comet is disintegrating...

[Reynolds357]

Ah, I misunderstood.

If I understand some things in Revelation correctly, the Earth will be hit with a comet that will kill a third of the land, a meteor that will kill a third of the ocean, and something like blood fire and hail which will kill another third of the land. (Rev8.) The only thing that will make sense is "stored food", which to me means "bunker".

I bought a book once called "Christians Will Go Through the Tribulation" --- the second half of it was on survivalist stuff. His "Pre-Wrath Rapture" argument was sound, though I don't think he made connections like Jn17:15 and Rev3:10.

I confess I haven't fully decided the right approach. Clearly those who say "Trust God" are right.

Maybe I am being led to buy some storable food.

Do you all know about the comet and meteor coming in October/November? Although, I just heard the comet is disintegrating...

It does not hurt to have some food stored back. Natural disaster is a real possibility. In the event of a strike from a space object, a bunker is not going to help you unless you have an extremely advanced air filtration system and the power source to run it for several years.

[Gadgeteer]

I appreciate that, so why be evasive?
I wasn't, until your post. You did rather "come at me with both barrels", when it wasn't even me you were after.

Still trying to create division among the brethren I see. ...it's not that difficult to remember someone who gets banned from almost every board they join.

How many times have I told you Eric, you don't catch flies with vinegar, and you don't win souls with debate (Romans 1:29). No, you're not being confrontational with unfruitful Rapture arguments yet, but I'll wait. I know it's coming.

You'll have a long wait. I don't give a rat's left toenail if someone believes "Pre-Trib", or "Mid-Trib", or "Post-Trib", or "Pre-Wrath". What I care about, is if that someone ENDURES, whatever may come. That is my only motivation. I have no intention of posting with harsh or hurtful words. Where would the glory and honor be in that, to Jesus whom I serve?

This may sound critical, so take it with the good intent that was meant --- if I had posted something such as I just quoted from you, and the other person had said "no that's not me" --- and if I was reviewing the posts from the other poster (you now have a couple dozen of mine by which to judge me) and I saw nothing harsh or hurtful, then perhaps my response might include words like, "I'm sorry".

...just a suggestion...

[Gadgeteer]

Yes I am aware of the having the strength, but glad you pointed it out for others. This will not be easy...

Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

There are those that say this happened long ago.

The part about "flee to the wilderness" is how I'm leaning; perhaps the antichrist will be so busy trying to run the world he won't have time to pursue those in the wilderness...

I see this differently...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Water here being a type of armies.

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There will be those 'left behind', but not from a rapture, from a flight to a place of safety in the wilderness.

So the "leftbehind" are the survivors? Those who fleed? Flew? Flowed? Uhm, took shelter in the wilderness???

Just another note here, what is the testimony of Jesus Christ?

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Jesus came that men may have life; that is His greatest testimony. All men, not a few.

I think sometimes others on this board feel as if I am using barbs and digs and personal attacks, but nothing could be further from the truth. My purpose is to get others to really dig into the scripture and just believe what God says, unshaded by preconceived ideas they have heard all their lives.

Amen. It's possible for all of us (or any!) to be prejudiced by preconceived ideas; I pray that we can overcome them, and study what Scripture says.

The Israelites did not store up food for themselves in the Wilderness, they trusted God for Manna; so I cannot fault those who say "trust God". Perhaps I'm a little afraid because my faith is not complete.

Gosh, that sounded a little like something Yoda would say:
"Your faith is not complete, Young Jedi!"

But then again Jude says, "BUILDING yourselves in holy faith, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of Christ to eternal life." Can't remember which chapter of Jude that's in...

[Keifer]

...just a suggestion...

Still no answer to my 'who are you' question. I've lost count. Is this the second, third or fourth evasion? You greet me in my topic, then refuse to say who you are after we have, according to you, known each other "for ten years"? C'mon Eric, err, ahh, I mean 'stranger', gimme' a hint...just one.

[John 8:32]

There are those that say this happened long ago.
So the "leftbehind" are the survivors? Those who fleed? Flew? Flowed? Uhm, took shelter in the wilderness???
Jesus came that men may have life; that is His greatest testimony. All men, not a few.
Amen. It's possible for all of us (or any!) to be prejudiced by preconceived ideas; I pray that we can overcome them, and study what Scripture says.

The Israelites did not store up food for themselves in the Wilderness, they trusted God for Manna; so I cannot fault those who say "trust God". Perhaps I'm a little afraid because my faith is not complete.

Gosh, that sounded a little like something Yoda would say:
"Your faith is not complete, Young Jedi!"

But then again Jude says, "BUILDING yourselves in holy faith, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of Christ to eternal life." Can't remember which chapter of Jude that's in...

1260 days = 1260 years
1260 years = 325AD to 1585AD Church in the wilderness evading the powerful apostate church and it's persecutions and inquisitions

42 months = 3-1/2 in a place of safety at the end time.

Two different periods of time

type and antitype

What happened to left behind, the end of chapter 12 Satan organizes persecution against those not strong enough to flee, not accounted worthy in KJV.

[Gadgeteer]

1260 days = 1260 years
1260 years = 325AD to 1585AD Church in the wilderness evading the powerful apostate church and its persecutions and inquisitions

So what happened in 1585?

42 months = 3-1/2 in a place of safety at the end time.

Two different periods of time

type and antitype

What happened to left behind, the end of chapter 12 satan organizes persecution against those not strong enough to flee, not accounted worthy in KJV.

Do you perceive this to be "those not strong enough to flee in 1585"?

I've studied the "Pre-Trib" verses, and there are answers for each; there are mainly two passages that clearly say we will be here for much of the Tribulation. I'd love to be wrong, to have a "soft happy escape" --- but I'm not counting on it.

I don't think we'll be on Earth for the "Seven Bowls of Wrath" (that may be why we're in the clouds with Jesus). This makes my view "Pre-Wrath". When we meet Jesus, the Greek is "Apentesis" --- it occurs four times in the NT, and in every instance it means "meet-and-proceed-forward", not "meet-and-run-away".

I think physical preparation is not really the issue; some will have food, some will not. It's spiritual preparation we should do, and we should do that anyway.

This really seems to be the best response so far:

The removal of freedoms, persecution of Christians is not new. It's been happening since antiquity. It's just going to get a whole lot worse over time and it's going to keep getting worse but I don't believe (purely from a logistical perspective) it could happen in a day.

If that is true, then there is a case to be made for making preparations, knowing full well that as the reign of the AC tightens, it will eventually become impossible to hide or escape - the key word being "eventually".

To put it differently, if (and I'm not saying it's a sure thing) by preparing one could get through the first year or two years (or longer?) relatively "untouched" would it not be a worthwhile endeavor to try?

We are taught to respect life, to hold onto it because it's precious. If anything we do can enable us to live one day, one week longer - if only to rescue one more soul.

Although "LoveFountain's" response was also excellent. So was "Digindeeper's".

There was a story of a pretty young blond teenager, was a "rabble-rouser"; drank, smoked, partied. But then she met someone who changed her life --- someone named Jesus. She was a completely different person, almost as if she had been re-born. She was so full of Jesus and the Spirit, it was like sunshine when she walked into the room. Everyone loved her.

One day at school everyone was in a panic, running around; she rounded a corner and came face-to-face with a thug pointing a gun at her. The thug snarled, "ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?!" Jesus had become such a part of her reality, there was only one answer she could give; she could no more deny Him than she could stop breathing; even if such a denial might prolong her life for YEARS. She sensed what her answer would cost, and she was willing to pay the price.

She straightened her shoulders, and looked her assailant in his eyes. "Yes." she said. She had to have smiled.

...and then she died.

But the bullet could not enter her heart, because Jesus was already there, filling it completely; her heart and soul belonged to Him, and it still does. The school was Columbine High School, in Littleton Colorado. That's the way I remember the story.

May Jesus be as real to me, and to each of you, that we are willing to pay whatever price the world assaults us with, because we belong to Him.