What are you doing to prepare for the Tribulation?

[Gadgeteer]

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I kinda think 2Thess2:1-4 fits this, where the "man of lawlessness" takes his place in the temple and declares himself to be God --- and we are not yet gathered.

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.

Don't think you are going to need your 'stuff', you will have to flee to a place in the wilderness (Rev 12:14) and leave your 'stuff' behind.

Now think about the latter part of Dan 12 - 1260, 1290 and 1335 days.

So --- is that saying the Trib will last 3885 days (10.6 years)? What about Matt24:22 where the days will be shortened for the sake of the elect, who (verse 24) can be deceived?

[RevLogos]

Unfortunately, Scripture doesn't say much, except "flee to the mountains".

I'd read scripture a bit more carefully if you are going to be making big plans from it.

Scripture says "let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains". Are you in Judea?

[Diggindeeper]

I remember when due to the 'cold war' the rich folks were all building bomb shelters..... Did them a lot of good........

[Gadgeteer]

I'd read scripture a bit more carefully if you are going to be making big plans from it.

An honorable thought. :-)

Scripture says "let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains". Are you in Judea?[/QUOTE]Uhm, not since yesterday!

:-D

[Gadgeteer]

I remember when due to the 'cold war' the rich folks were all building bomb shelters..... Did them a lot of good........

Dad considered tunneling under the driveway and making a shelter with the concrete slab as the roof. It was an uneasy time.

RE "a lot of good" --- do you read Alistair McClean? In "The Black Shrike", he was trying to disarm the nuclear missile (the "Shrike"!); he slipped and the missile clanged to the deck. His partner was thoroughly frightened and turned and started to run. He said, "Where are you going to run to?"

Oh.

[tango]

55 gallon drums. I haven't gone farther than thinking about buying food --- a bunker would have to have storage rooms for food, spare parts, medicine.

55 US gallons is a little over 200 litres. You'll be wanting 7300 litres of water, per person. So each person is going to need the water in 36 of those drums and that's just for drinking. If you want to use water for washing, cooking, rehydrating food etc then you go up from there.

I doubt well water would be contaminated by surface stuff; but if one is compelled to use stored water, then washing and flushing would be restricted...

Indeed it would. If you're planning in enough detail to even hope to just hide away and survive for 10 years it would be pointless do even begin without considering a water supply. You can go without food for weeks but going without water for even a few days is going to finish you off.

My colleague's friends have diverted part of the stream, so all that's there is a port before the waterfall, and the drain back into the stream after.

So anyone who spots the port will figure that someone is using the water, and that someone is probably prepared. If they want to flush you out all they have to do is block the port.

Underground rooms need ventilation; haven't worked out how to hide the infrared footprint. Perhaps combining the water with stale air...

Unless you've got a lot of people in there I doubt the infrared footprint will be an issue. Caves underground tend to hold a pretty steady temperature so as long as you're OK living in around 50 degrees Fahrenheit you'll be OK.

I don't see a "hideaway" as a lack of faith; and by faith the residents would pray for divine protection and secrecy.

I just see a lot of this stuff as inconsistent. We're praying by faith that God will keep our little hidey-hole secure so we can look after ourselves and let the rest of the world go to hell in a handcart, when we apparently don't have the faith in God to provide if we share our hoard with others who also need it.

Well the whole thing's speculation. The rooms would have to also be sealed enough, and have D-Con to protect against small furry intruders...

Yes, it's speculation. But if you're talking about planning for a great tribulation hoping you'll get through it without a heavy dollop of divine intervention you better make sure the sums are right. You don't want to find part way through that you ran out of food, or figured you were providing for a total of eight people only to find when the time comes one of the couples with you have had a child and you've got another mouth to feed.

You can also hope that nobody finds your little hidey hole and takes up residence before you get there. If that happens all your plans are shot.

Makes my stomach flip to think about it. Do you remember a Richard Pryor movie, he played a soldier that got captured by the Viet Kong? I remember him getting his swill one day, and complaining: "I like my roaches SAUTE'ED, please?"

Can't say I like the idea of eating locusts much but I'd imagine it beats starving.

[Gadgeteer]

55 US gallons is a little over 200 litres. You'll be wanting 7300 litres of water, per person. So each person is going to need the water in 36 of those drums and that's just for drinking. If you want to use water for washing, cooking, rehydrating food etc then you go up from there.

Indeed it would. If you're planning in enough detail to even hope to just hide away and survive for 10 years it would be pointless do even begin without considering a water supply. You can go without food for weeks but going without water for even a few days is going to finish you off.

Unless I could find an undiscovered cave system, which generally has lots of water. What's that one out West that was discovered a decade or so ago, they figure 60 miles of tunnels? That's all the power you need --- just put a TURBINE in the opening, and atmospheric pressure changes will run your generator. "Lecheghia", guessing at the spelling. They say the wind at the entrance is constantly 40mph, sometimes in, sometimes out.

So anyone who spots the port will figure that someone is using the water, and that someone is probably prepared. If they want to flush you out all they have to do is block the port.

Well, again, we assume those inside will be "praying for remaining hidden".

Unless you've got a lot of people in there I doubt the infrared footprint will be an issue. Caves underground tend to hold a pretty steady temperature so as long as you're OK living in around 50 degrees Fahrenheit you'll be OK.

Do you know about the city in Australia, in the opal mine? It costs about 30 grand to excavate living quarters; there is a reasonable probability enough opals will be discovered in the process to pay for the work! They have entertainment centers and shopping! Not good for claustrophobics, I bet...

I just see a lot of this stuff as inconsistent. We're praying by faith that God will keep our little hidey-hole secure so we can look after ourselves and let the rest of the world go to hell in a handcart, when we apparently don't have the faith in God to provide if we share our hoard with others who also need it.

Your arguments are sound, especially this one. I actually did just make a post to that effect over on the "Pre-Trib VS Post-Trib" thread. You and I are "running in the same channel".

Fear is a reflection of faithlessness.

Yes, it's speculation. But if you're talking about planning for a great tribulation hoping you'll get through it without a heavy dollop of divine intervention you better make sure the sums are right. You don't want to find part way through that you ran out of food, or figured you were providing for a total of eight people only to find when the time comes one of the couples with you have had a child and you've got another mouth to feed.

You can also hope that nobody finds your little hidey hole and takes up residence before you get there. If that happens all your plans are shot.

What was it they used on Star Trek when bad-guys took over the ship? "Anesthezine"???

:-D

Can't say I like the idea of eating locusts much but I'd imagine it beats starving.

I think I would have to be there before I could actually agree...

[DurbanDude]

If the bible or a prophet says there will be a famine, it takes faith to believe them, and then plan for that famine. It means that you are taking God's sent word seriously.

If the bible says that Christians wont be able to buy or sell, it would make sense to stock up food up front, that means that we believe in God's word and are responding accordingly.

We can't just trust God, God gives us a brain and hands to act out our faith, we do our best and trust God to do the rest. I do believe in divine intervention, but if God tells me that I wont be able to buy and sell for 3.5 years, its no trouble to stock up a bit. Its not like we need long term financing and pension funds etc, when we see the signs in heaven like fire coming to earth (Rev 13) then the beast only has authority for 3.5 years and then he comes to his end at the second coming (Rev 19). So when we see the signs, we can easily afford to stock up, because the rest of the world is planning a lifetime, we only need to plan for 3.5 years.

[Gadgeteer]

If the bible or a prophet says there will be a famine, it takes faith to believe them, and then plan for that famine. It means that you are taking God's sent word seriously.

If the bible says that Christians wont be able to buy or sell, it would make sense to stock up food up front, that means that we believe in God's word and are responding accordingly.

We can't just trust God, God gives us a brain and hands to act out our faith, we do our best and trust God to do the rest. I do believe in divine intervention, but if God tells me that I wont be able to buy and sell for 3.5 years, its no trouble to stock up a bit. Its not like we need long term financing and pension funds etc, when we see the signs in heaven like fire coming to earth (Rev 13) then the beast only has authority for 3.5 years and then he comes to his end at the second coming (Rev 19). So when we see the signs, we can easily afford to stock up, because the rest of the world is planning a lifetime, we only need to plan for 3.5 years.

I think you have great wisdom.

But --- as Tango said, pragmatically that will be alotta food & water. Perhaps if Joseph could make it work and provide for all Egypt, and his brothers and father, then God will allow us to store some....

[DurbanDude]

I think you have great wisdom.

But --- as Tango said, pragmatically that will be alotta food & water. Perhaps if Joseph could make it work and provide for all Egypt, and his brothers and father, then God will allow us to store some....

I guess I'm lucky, I have a river (umm polluted canal) behind my house, so water isn't a problem. Food, really it doesn't take up that much space. Lots of tins of vegetables, and the rice/pasta/flour makes up the bulk. and biltong, lots of biltong (South African jerky)

I'm generally working on the assumption that we don't all need to go hiding away, we will need that number to buy and sell, but they wont have time to come hunting every one of us before the 3.5 years is up. Its like the lotto except both ways you win, if you are martyred you with Jesus earlier, if you aren't then you save yourself some physical trials. So I'm recommending staying put in your house, paying the water bill up front for a few years, and stocking up on food. We can't all go running to the countryside, there will be souls to save in the city during that time. But we don't have to fear either, if they come for you, well no problem, we with the Lord earlier.

So its the lotto, if you are in a country that is well organised, and very integrated with the beast's philosophy, then you have no chance. If you are in a country that is deliberately undermining the beast's attaempts to control everyone, and the organisation of the police force is bad, then you have a better chance. It's definitely not going to be uniform and consistent, the "little horn" only controls 3 of the ten regions (Daniel 7) and there is this massive Turkish/Russian rebellion at the end against the Jewish/Western alliance, so I'm not expecting that every country will be as committed to his policies as per the standard views on the tribulation.

[John 8:32]

So --- is that saying the Trib will last 3885 days (10.6 years)? What about Matt24:22 where the days will be shortened for the sake of the elect, who (verse 24) can be deceived?

I think these days may well run concurrently. As far as fleeing to the mountains, unless God gathers the church in Judea prior to the flight to the Place of Safety, there is no direction as to where to flee from, or when. Also, we must remember...

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

God will make this plain at the appropriate time when He unseals, or reveals, what this really means.

[tango]

I guess I'm lucky, I have a river (umm polluted canal) behind my house, so water isn't a problem. Food, really it doesn't take up that much space. Lots of tins of vegetables, and the rice/pasta/flour makes up the bulk. and biltong, lots of biltong (South African jerky)

I think a lot of people would be surprised just how much space food does take up. If you're young and healthy and can reasonably just bug out somewhere then there's a chance you might survive 3.5 years in the wilderness living off whatever you can find. If you're not young and healthy, or you need to look after people who aren't, it becomes a lot more complex.

If the agents of the antichrist are trying to flush people out they could easily do it by poisoning the water supplies so you can only get water by buying it, and you can only buy it if you have the mark. So unless you've got water on hand you're stumped, and as I mentioned earlier the amount of water you'd need to store is huge. Throw in the fact you couldn't possibly move that much water if you needed to evacuate in a hurry and you've got a plan with multiple points of catastrophic failure.

I'm generally working on the assumption that we don't all need to go hiding away, we will need that number to buy and sell, but they wont have time to come hunting every one of us before the 3.5 years is up. Its like the lotto except both ways you win, if you are martyred you with Jesus earlier, if you aren't then you save yourself some physical trials. So I'm recommending staying put in your house, paying the water bill up front for a few years, and stocking up on food. We can't all go running to the countryside, there will be souls to save in the city during that time. But we don't have to fear either, if they come for you, well no problem, we with the Lord earlier.

If only it were as simple as paying a few bills up front and hoping you aren't one who is specifically targetted. I don't imagine people necessarily going door-to-door looking to flush out Christians, it could be so much easier. You could do stuff like turn off the water supply completely, or require a new contract to receive mains water (which would naturally require you to have the mark). Do the same for gas and electricity and you could sit holed up in your house, cold and thirsty, but suddenly the plan has fallen by the wayside.

So its the lotto, if you are in a country that is well organised, and very integrated with the beast's philosophy, then you have no chance. If you are in a country that is deliberately undermining the beast's attaempts to control everyone, and the organisation of the police force is bad, then you have a better chance. It's definitely not going to be uniform and consistent, the "little horn" only controls 3 of the ten regions (Daniel 7) and there is this massive Turkish/Russian rebellion at the end against the Jewish/Western alliance, so I'm not expecting that every country will be as committed to his policies as per the standard views on the tribulation.

It's possible that some places will be more conducive to survival than others based on terrain, availability of wild resources, and efficiency of the police. If you're living in a big city in a Western country the chances of being able to hide would seem very slim. If you're in a remote area, even in a Western nation (or at least those nations where such areas still exist) you might be in with more of a chance, assuming of course you can survive through the seasons.

Of course if the pre-wrath viewpoint turns out to be wrong and we have to endure the full 7 years then all the people who studiously prepared a 3.5-year plan are going to find themselves running out of supplies just when things really get ugly.

[Gadgeteer]

I think a lot of people would be surprised just how much space food does take up. If you're young and healthy and can reasonably just bug out somewhere then there's a chance you might survive 3.5 years in the wilderness living off whatever you can find. If you're not young and healthy, or you need to look after people who aren't, it becomes a lot more complex.

If the agents of the antichrist are trying to flush people out they could easily do it by poisoning the water supplies so you can only get water by buying it, and you can only buy it if you have the mark. So unless you've got water on hand you're stumped, and as I mentioned earlier the amount of water you'd need to store is huge. Throw in the fact you couldn't possibly move that much water if you needed to evacuate in a hurry and you've got a plan with multiple points of catastrophic failure.

What do you think about a well?

If only it were as simple as paying a few bills up front and hoping you aren't one who is specifically targetted. I don't imagine people necessarily going door-to-door looking to flush out Christians, it could be so much easier. You could do stuff like turn off the water supply completely, or require a new contract to receive mains water (which would naturally require you to have the mark). Do the same for gas and electricity and you could sit holed up in your house, cold and thirsty, but suddenly the plan has fallen by the wayside.

There's also the "land ownership" problem, property taxes, etcetera....

It's possible that some places will be more conducive to survival than others based on terrain, availability of wild resources, and efficiency of the police. If you're living in a big city in a Western country the chances of being able to hide would seem very slim. If you're in a remote area, even in a Western nation (or at least those nations where such areas still exist) you might be in with more of a chance, assuming of course you can survive through the seasons.

Of course if the pre-wrath viewpoint turns out to be wrong and we have to endure the full 7 years then all the people who studiously prepared a 3.5-year plan are going to find themselves running out of supplies just when things really get ugly.

"Pre-wrath and 7 years"? I lean towards "pre-wrath", and perceive enduring the full seven years; the seven bowls don't need to take long to pour out...

[tango]

What do you think about a well?

Fine in theory, unless the pre-wrath viewpoint is wrong and your well turns to blood. Or someone else taps a well so yours runs dry. Or someone poisons it to flush you out. Or it just runs dry naturally because of demand on the water supply.

There's also the "land ownership" problem, property taxes, etcetera....

If you live in an area that levies such taxes, they do become a bit of a bind if you can't pay without the mark and if you don't pay you lose your home. Again, it's an easy way to flush people out en masse without even having to go door-to-door. Payment of property taxes requires people to come forward, and anyone who doesn't come forward is immediately identified along with their property.

"Pre-wrath and 7 years"? I lean towards "pre-wrath", and perceive enduring the full seven years; the seven bowls don't need to take long to pour out...

If you're going to go to the extent of planning for this kind of thing you might as well assume the very worst. Otherwise you just about muddle through the first part and when you're expecting to be raptured you find that things just got 100 times worse and you ran out of food.

[Johnny]

If you want to prepare to escape the Tribulation, make sure you are part of the true Bride of Christ and get RAPTURED! If not it's going to be a very bumpy ride through the 7 years.