Partial Rapture: Watch therefore, praying always that you may be counted worthy

[Caleb]

Luke 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, and that Day come upon you unexpectedly.
Luke 21:35 For it will come as a snare on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch therefore, praying always that you may be counted worthy to escape everything that is about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man."


Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you like a thief, and by no means shall you know what hour I will come upon you.


Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those that dwell upon the earth.



Partial Rapture:


Anyone heard or believe in this?

As I think I understand it, there will be a pre trib rapture for those who escape all these things if they are counted worthy. If they are watching and praying. There is also 'if you keep my patience, I will keep you from the hour that is coming upon the whole world'

For those who have not been watching and praying, or keeping His patience etc...(not counted worthy) they will have to go through (part or whole) the great tribulation, and then those who are alive and remain at His coming shall then be caught up.

Whilst the argument may sound scripturally plausible, I cannot fully accept the theory.

A question I ask for 'to be counted worthy' is, what happens to those who did not watch and pray, nor kept His patience etc.. and die before His coming again?

[vinsight4u8]

worthy = strength

It is about having strength to hold fast durng that time.

[John 8:32]

Luke 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, and that Day come upon you unexpectedly.
Luke 21:35 For it will come as a snare on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch therefore, praying always that you may be counted worthy to escape everything that is about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man."


Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you like a thief, and by no means shall you know what hour I will come upon you.


Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those that dwell upon the earth.



Partial Rapture:


Anyone heard or believe in this?

As I think I understand it, there will be a pre trib rapture for those who escape all these things if they are counted worthy. If they are watching and praying. There is also 'if you keep my patience, I will keep you from the hour that is coming upon the whole world'

For those who have not been watching and praying, or keeping His patience etc...(not counted worthy) they will have to go through (part or whole) the great tribulation, and then those who are alive and remain at His coming shall then be caught up.

Whilst the argument may sound scripturally plausible, I cannot fully accept the theory.

A question I ask for 'to be counted worthy' is, what happens to those who did not watch and pray, nor kept His patience etc.. and die before His coming again?

Tie what you have posted here with...

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Not a rapture, a physical relocating of the ekklesia to a place of safety and protection for 3-1/2 years until Christ returns. If this were a "rapture", why would you want to go back in the house to get your stuff? Why would you care about leaving your garment or clothes. Why would it matter to women who were nursing children. Why would winter or the Sabbath day matter ir you were to be whisked away to heaven? It only matters if you are still flesh and blood and are physically traveling, otherwise the armies Satan sends out after the church could not touch them.

[Adstars]

Luke 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, and that Day come upon you unexpectedly.
Luke 21:35 For it will come as a snare on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch therefore, praying always that you may be counted worthy to escape everything that is about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Read these verses in context and you will see that it is talking about the Day of the Lord, that Day is the Day of the Lord and it will be a Day of Wrath upon all men who have rejected the atonement of the Messiah Jesus. The tribulation of the saints happens before the Day of the Lord.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you like a thief, and by no means shall you know what hour I will come upon you.

This verse is neutral in regard to Rapture timing. It simply states that no one will know the hour. This does not mean people will not be aware of the times. Thats why He says Watch,, Watch for the signs that He gave us.

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those that dwell upon the earth.

And what did Jesus say about temptation? When He was teaching them the correct manner in which to pray?

Matthew 6
13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Who will tempt the world in the end times? That’s right the evil one and whom will God give over to the deceptive temptation of the evil one.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



There is only one rapture and that is at the moment of His second comming. There is no extra, secret or partial rapture.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[John 8:32]

There is only one rapture and that is at the moment of His second comming. There is no extra, secret or partial rapture.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

This is why I do not like to use the word rapture, it conjures up an extra, secret or partial gathering in the minds of many. I prefer to just refer to Christ's coming and the resurrection as put forth in 1Cor 15 and 1hs 4.

[quiet dove]

Luke 21:34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, and that Day come upon you unexpectedly.
Luke 21:35 For it will come as a snare on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
Luke 21:36 Watch therefore, praying always that you may be counted worthy to escape everything that is about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man."


Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you like a thief, and by no means shall you know what hour I will come upon you.


Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those that dwell upon the earth.



Partial Rapture:


Anyone heard or believe in this?

As I think I understand it, there will be a pre trib rapture for those who escape all these things if they are counted worthy. If they are watching and praying. There is also 'if you keep my patience, I will keep you from the hour that is coming upon the whole world'

For those who have not been watching and praying, or keeping His patience etc...(not counted worthy) they will have to go through (part or whole) the great tribulation, and then those who are alive and remain at His coming shall then be caught up.

Whilst the argument may sound scripturally plausible, I cannot fully accept the theory.

A question I ask for 'to be counted worthy' is, what happens to those who did not watch and pray, nor kept His patience etc.. and die before His coming again?

But there is really only one way to be counted worthy, and that is to be covered by the worthiness of Christ. Be saved. I don't believe it is a matter of good Christian - bad Christian, because every believer is dependent upon Christ ability, not there own. Is there reward to be lost, scripture seems to indicate that is the case, but that is another matter anyway.

Since the phrase "hour of trial", or "temptation", is used in letters to the churches, it seems exhortation toward believers, but not necessarily meaning the same thing as "tribulation". Trial can feel like tribulation, but we need to understand the purpose. Trial will test the believer, or 'prove' the believer, and it can very well be 'tribulation'.

But on the other hand, what is also 'tribulation', is also the wrath of God, and believers are promised that they have been delivered from the wrath of God. There is no reason to believe that this deliverance is only as related to eternity. Wrath is wrath, be it in this life or the next.

In other words, the word 'tribulation' is used interchangeably by most folks because wrath causes tribulation ,and trials cause tribulation, and persecution there fore can be a trial and since it causes tribulation, persecution is also called tribulation. Tribulation is basically anything that causes distress. So we must understand the context and what is being described to us when using the all purpose term of 'tribulation'.

With all that said, I do not believe the 'hour of trial' warning toward the churches is necessarily the same thing that Revelation later gets into with the opening of the seals of God's, and the Lamb's, wrath. There must be an understanding of what the 'trial' that God allows believers to go through, verses, the wrath of God upon all unrighteousness. And also in the mix would be discipline, punishment, and judgment. And often the terms, reasoning, and purpose get jumbled up thus resulting in confusion.

I disagree, though I understand how people come to the conclusion, that there will be a partial rapture. One is either in Christ Jesus or they are not. The call to always be watching and always be ready is more than a call to watch for His return, it is the purpose for watching is not just to see Him coming, it is to be living as to not be ashamed when He does come. I mean, everyone can watch for Him, the exhortation is not to just be watching, but to be watching with a purpose, and that purpose to live in such a way as to not be ashamed(with ourselves)at His coming, or rapture in this thread topic. And this exhortation to living in such a way also applies for every day life and death. If a person were to die today, they would not want to be ashamed when they saw Him. It is a warning for every day purpose of living, to watch!

[John 8:32]

But there is really only one way to be counted worthy, and that is to be covered by the worthiness of Christ. Be saved. I don't believe it is a matter of good Christian - bad Christian, because every believer is dependent upon Christ ability, not there own. Is there reward to be lost, scripture seems to indicate that is the case, but that is another matter anyway.

Since the phrase "hour of trial", or "temptation", is used in letters to the churches, it seems exhortation toward believers, but not necessarily meaning the same thing as "tribulation". Trial can feel like tribulation, but we need to understand the purpose. Trial will test the believer, or 'prove' the believer, and it can very well be 'tribulation'.

But on the other hand, what is also 'tribulation', is also the wrath of God, and believers are promised that they have been delivered from the wrath of God. There is no reason to believe that this deliverance is only as related to eternity. Wrath is wrath, be it in this life or the next.

In other words, the word 'tribulation' is used interchangeably by most folks because wrath causes tribulation ,and trials cause tribulation, and persecution there fore can be a trial and since it causes tribulation, persecution is also called tribulation. Tribulation is basically anything that causes distress. So we must understand the context and what is being described to us when using the all purpose term of 'tribulation'.

With all that said, I do not believe the 'hour of trial' warning toward the churches is necessarily the same thing that Revelation later gets into with the opening of the seals of God's, and the Lamb's, wrath. There must be an understanding of what the 'trial' that God allows believers to go through, verses, the wrath of God upon all unrighteousness. And also in the mix would be discipline, punishment, and judgment. And often the terms, reasoning, and purpose get jumbled up thus resulting in confusion.

I disagree, though I understand how people come to the conclusion, that there will be a partial rapture. One is either in Christ Jesus or they are not. The call to always be watching and always be ready is more than a call to watch for His return, it is the purpose for watching is not just to see Him coming, it is to be living as to not be ashamed when He does come. I mean, everyone can watch for Him, the exhortation is not to just be watching, but to be watching with a purpose, and that purpose to live in such a way as to not be ashamed(with ourselves)at His coming, or rapture in this thread topic. And this exhortation to living in such a way also applies for every day life and death. If a person were to die today, they would not want to be ashamed when they saw Him. It is a warning for every day purpose of living, to watch!

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How is this distinction made?

[quiet dove]

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How is this distinction made?

No it isn't. Rev 12 events come after the opening of the seals. Like I said, believers will face trials regardless of when in history they live, but this particular hour of trial may or may not be upon believers, according to what Rev 3:10 is saying. So when this trial upon the earth comes, believers may still be here, but this is prior to the seals of the wrath of God being opened. So this 'trial' is not wrath, it is a testing of those upon the earth. It makes sense that there would be this 'trial', or 'temptation' as it is otherwise translated, in a 'proving' of those upon the earth. Those who have already persevered(been proven), Christ says He will keep from that 'hour of trial'.

If believers are not still here, then it is a proving of those who will or will not submit to Christ. If believers are still here, then it seems there are some who, because they have already been proven, will not face this trial.

My point regarding the OP was that I do not think it usable to support a partial rapture. Either the whole Church is gone, or the whole Church is still here.

[Adstars]

This is why I do not like to use the word rapture, it conjures up an extra, secret or partial gathering in the minds of many. I prefer to just refer to Christ's coming and the resurrection as put forth in 1Cor 15 and 1hs 4.

Yeah i know a lot of people have been trained to think of the rapture as being only Pre-tribulation. But that is not how it is. The word rapture is just an English version of a Latin word that means "caught up" which is in the bible in reference to what will happen to the saints on the Day of the Lord.

So i have no trouble using the world rapture, because i believe it will happen as written on the Day of the Lord.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Walls]

Caleb

I agree with you. Notice the opponents' way of averting your question. Some quote texts that exclusively deal with the Jews. "Those in Judea". That predicted by Daniel and reported in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is for "your" (Daniel's) people (Dan.9:24). Christians are not Daniel's people. Then they quote Revelation 12 and avoid the "Man-Child." They speak only of the "rest of her seed", but not the Man-Child. And they will not deal with the other scriptures like the one that speaks of the "out resurrection of Philippians 3:11 which must be "attained to." They speak of Tribulation" as a fact of Christian life (which is correct) but then pointedly avoid the "the" Great Tribulation - Jacob's trouble.

As I have posted previously, just one renowned bible student (see Spurgeon's comments on him), Robert Govett, writes 357 pages on the subject. There are a dozen more that deal with these scriptures as they are written, not trying to say they mean something else.

The fact of rapture is there. Enoch and Elijah! Both live at a time of immanent judgment. Enoch face the devastation of the world. Elijah faces the devastation of Israel. Both are raptured before the event. Later, two witnesses in Revelation chapter 11 are resurrected and raptured as proof of their approval by the Lord. They do not have to wait for a "general" resurrection for rapture. Our Lord Jesus, Who receives the peak of reward for what He did, is raptured. Rapture before the crisis is a fact of scripture.

The multiple scriptures that indicate that Christians must face the Great Tribulation are equally valid and can only be put away by saying that they mean something else. We have scriptures for both a pre tribulation rapture and scriptures for a rapture during or after the tribulation. Those that argue that a multiple rapture contradicts 1st Thessalonians in that some living will precede the dead is not valid as; (i) the rapture of Enoch and Elijah has done that already. (ii) The rapture of Jesus has done that already. (iii) Where are the saints who were resurrected after Jesus on resurrection day? Would they not be famous if they still walked the earth? But whether they walk the earth or have been raptured, they have preceded those of 1st Thessalonians by nearly 2000 years. Nothing in 1st Thessalonians indicates that all must be resurrected at the same time. It only indicates that in a rapture, those living who are worthy of it, will not precede the dead who are worthy of it. And if you read chapter 1 you will note that this was a worthy Church.

The Man-Child of Revelation 12 must be the same as the "rest of her seed". They come from the same "seed." Genesis 1:11-12 sets forth this principle and it is unwavering in scripture. The Man-Child is raptured before the rest of her seed. And the "rest" of her seed must undergo divine protection in a wilderness for exactly the length of Jacob's trouble, three and a half years or 1260 days. The Man-Child can be only one of two. Only Christ and the overcomers will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Because the woman who brings the Man-Child forth cannot be Mary (for a number of reasons) the evidence is that the Man-Child represents the overcomes. But whether it is our Lord Jesus or the overcomers, their origin is the same. Those who spend the Great Tribulation in a wilderness under divine protection must be Christians, the same seed as the Man-Child. The contrast in their different fates is remarkable. One goes to the throne of God and the other to a "wilderness." (See Deuteronomy Chapter 8 for a description of the wilderness).

Do those who hold to a general Pre Tribulation rapture think that the Christians of Laodicea and Alexander the Coppersmith will be entitled to a rapture of reward? These are just some of the questions which you will notice are avoided in this, and the other threads on rapture. And by the way, a small but important point, Rapture in scripture is not "caught up". The Greek word indicates movement but not direction. Correct is "caught away."

[songofdegrees]

What does the Bible actually teach? Let us consider the following observations.

A. Revelation 3.10 “The hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world” - This is the Great Tribulation. This verse tells us that a certain class of people may escape the Great Tribulation, even those who keep the word of the patience of Christ. Instantly it tears apart the arguments of the second school of interpretation as well as those of the first. Although Philadelphia represents the true church in the dispensation of Grace, it is nonetheless only one of the seven local churches in Asia at that time. Thus it shows that only a relatively small number of people (one seventh) may be raptured before the Tribulation. Furthermore, pre-tribulation rapture is not based purely on our being born again as children of God, but is dependent on one other condition, which is, our keeping the word of the patience of Christ. Do all believers today keep the word of the patience of Christ? Obviously not. It is therefore evident that not the whole body of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation. The second school contends, however, that this passage of Scripture does not refer to pre-tribulation rapture, for it speaks of keeping - that God will “keep” them safely through the Great Tribulation: just as, for example, when an entire house is caught on fire, one room may be left untouched; or for example, when the land of Egypt came under the plague, the land of Goshen where the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt went unscathed (see Ex. 9.26, 10.23). Such an explanation is erroneous because (1) the “keeping” in view here is not a keeping through but a keeping from. In the Greek text, after the word “keep” in this verse there is the word ek which means “out of” (as in the word ekklesia which means “the called out ones”). Here, therefore, ek signifies a being kept out of the Tribulation. And (2) “Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial” (3.10a) - As we have seen, the trial which is to come upon the whole world is the Great Tribulation; but notice that it is not a keeping from the trial but a keeping from the hour of the trial, In order to be kept out of the hour of trial, we must leave the world. There are only two ways for God to keep us out: death and rapture. And hence part of the living will be raptured before the Tribulation.

B. Luke 21.36 also proves that not the entire church but only a part of it will be raptured before the Tribulation. The accounts of Luke 21 and Matthew 24 are quite alike, except that Matthew stresses more the coming of Christ and the Tribulation while Luke focuses more on the destruction of Jerusalem and the Tribulation. Hence there is the famous question asked in Matthew (24.3), and there are also more parables recorded in Matthew’s account than in Luke’s. In 70 A.D. Jerusalem experienced a terrible destruction, and at the end she will experience a great tribulation. The record in Luke can be outlined as follows: 2 1.8-9 - the things before the end; 10-19 - believers will suffer; 20-28 - how Jerusalem will be destroyed (verse 28 seems to suggest that the saints will all pass through the Tribulation); 29-33 - a parable guaranteeing the certainty of these things to come; and 34-36 - Were it not for this passage, it might be inferred that the whole body of believers would surely be raptured after the Tribulation: yet verse 34 has a change in tone from the preceding verses, verse 35 shows that the things mentioned earlier concern the whole inhabited world, and verse 36 presents the condition for escaping the Great Tribulation - which is to watch and pray. How are believers to escape all these coming things and to stand before the Son of man? Naturally by being raptured. Death is not a blessing: we do not pray and expect death. The condition here for rapture is to watch and pray. Hence here, not all the regenerated may be raptured. Pray always. What to pray for? Pray that we may escape all these things which shall come to pass. “That ye may prevail” (or, “ye may be accounted worthy” AV), It is not a question of grace, but rather a matter of worthiness. How about worthiness? God cannot receive you to the place where you have no desire to go. Some people may consider heaven as too tasteless a place in which to live as may be indicated by these words: “Lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” (v.34). If a balloon is tied, it cannot ascend. In sum, Luke 21.36 shatters the arguments of both the first and second schools of interpretation. The second school may still raise other arguments, such as (1) that rapture is not dependent on conduct - yet in reply it should be asked whether anyone thinks a carnal believer lying on a bed of fornication will be raptured? Or (2) that the phrase “all these things” does not refer to the Great Tribulation but to the surfeiting, drunkenness, and cares of this life cited in verse 34. In reply, it should be noted that verse 36 reads, “all these things that shall come to pass" - whereas “surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life” pertain to the things which are present now. And therefore, “watch ye” means to not be deceived by such activities.

Other proofs as follows:

(1) By reading Matthew 24.42 together with 1 Thessalonians 5.2, 4, it is evident that there are at least two raptures: for note that the first passage suggests rapture before the Tribulation because one must be watchful since he does not know when his Lord will come; while the second passage suggests rapture after the Tribulation because one knows when the day of the Lord shall come.

(2) The places to be raptured towards are also different. Whereas Revelation 7.15 mentions to “the throne of God” and Luke 21.36 mentions “to stand before the Son of man”, 1 Thessalonians 4.17 says that it is to “the air” – Such distinctions would thus indicate that the entire body of believers is not raptured all at one time.

(3) Mark 13 states, “But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father” (v.32), So that the day of the coming of Christ is unknown. But 1 Thessalonians 4 declares that “the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God” (v.16). From this second passage we know that the appearing of Christ is after the sounding of the seventh trumpet. And hence the first passage relates to pre-tribulation rapture while the second relates to post-tribulation rapture.


Questions raised against separate rapture, and answers thereto, are submitted below.

A. Some people say that the rapture of the church cannot be divided because the body of Christ cannot be divided. It should be noted in reply, however, that the body is a figure of speech which signifies one life. If the body is taken literally, then there is already division today because the Lord is now in heaven, Paul has already died, we remain living on earth, and some believers are yet to be born.

B. Others object that rapture is part of redemption, that since redemption is according to grace, rapture cannot be based on the concept of worthiness. In reply, it needs to be pointed out that while the act of changing (see 1 Cor. 15.51-52) is indeed according to grace, the act of being taken (rapture) is according to works.

C. Some observers ask, is it not rather cruel to take away hope from the church? To which we must answer that in the Scriptures there is no such false hope given; and therefore it is better to alert people to this fact.

D. I Corinthians 15.23, say some, only mentions “they that are Christ’s” and that nothing is said about works. But let us be aware that this verse does not speak of rapture, it speaks of resurrection.

E. Since the dead will not go through the Great Tribulation, would it not be unfair to the living for them to go through it? Will not the righteous God be unjust in this regard? In response, let me say that we do need to be concerned; for during the millennium each and every believer (including all believers who died prior to the Great Tribulation) will receive, as a consequence of appearing before Christ’s judgment seat, the things done in the body while alive, according to what he has done whether it be good or bad (2 Cor. 5.10).

F. Since in 1 Cor. 15:50-52 (“We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed”) “all” is the word used, surely this signifies the whole body. Yes, the “all” here does indeed refer to the entire body, but it does not have reference to the same time. For example, we all will die, but certainly not all of us will do so in one day.

G. There is a distinction made in the Bible between wheat and tares, some say, but no difference made between wheat and wheat; consequently, all wheat must be raptured. In reply, it should be noted that the times of ripening for wheat are not the same. Thus there are the firstfruits and the later harvest.

H. Some argue that according to I Thessalonians 4.15, the living “shall in no wise precede them who are fallen asleep” -The dead are resurrected at the seventh trumpet; and so timewise, rapture occurs after the Tribulation. Now if there is a first rapture, it will have to take place before the resurrection of the dead. But since this verse distinctly says “shall in no wise,” how then can rapture take place twice? Let me say in reply that it is most precious and significant to find in both verse 15 and verse 17 the qualifying clauses “we that are alive, that are left” - Now to be alive is obviously to be left on earth; why, then, is there this apparent unnecessary repetition? Because it implies that there are people who though alive yet have already gone ahead (that is, raptured) and therefore are no longer left on earth. Would Paul enlist himself among this class of people who are alive and are left? Not at all. He uses the word “we” only because he is speaking at that moment of writing, and the proof of this is that since Paul no longer lives today, he cannot be numbered among those who are left on earth. Our summary conclusion to all this is that the third school of interpretation seems to be the correct one - that is to say, that one group of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation while another group of believers will go through the Tribulation and be raptured afterwards.

[Caleb]

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those that dwell upon the earth.

"I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world"

The problem I think is that this ‘hour of temptation’ is upon the whole world. I don’t believe that this can refer to ‘the great tribulation’ as this is the tribulation of the saints, not the whole world.

What I don’t quite yet grasp is, does the period of the great tribulation of the saints, precede ‘the hour of temptation (trial)’ which is about to come upon the whole world’, or is it incorporated within that hour?

The scripture is quite clear that we (children of the day) will not be overtaken by the night.

[songofdegrees]

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those that dwell upon the earth.

"I also will keep you from the hour of temptation which is about to come upon the whole world"

The problem I think is that this ‘hour of temptation’ is upon the whole world. I don’t believe that this can refer to ‘the great tribulation’ as this is the tribulation of the saints, not the whole world.

What I don’t quite yet grasp is, does the period of the great tribulation of the saints, precede ‘the hour of temptation (trial)’ which is about to come upon the whole world’, or is it incorporated within that hour?

The scripture is quite clear that we (children of the day) will not be overtaken by the night.

It says it is the "whole world" not the tribulation of the saints.

The tribulation of the saints has been going on the past 20 centuries. The 5th seal talks about those who have been martyred the past 20 centuries. The tribulation will no doubt culminate in the Tribulation itself.

Just because a Christian is martyred doesn't mean he is overtaken. But the only way God can promise a Christian if he keeps the word of His patience is to be kept from the Tribulation hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world is by being raptured. Death is no blessing.

[John146]

What does the Bible actually teach? Let us consider the following observations.

A. Revelation 3.10 “The hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world” - This is the Great Tribulation. This verse tells us that a certain class of people may escape the Great Tribulation, even those who keep the word of the patience of Christ. Instantly it tears apart the arguments of the second school of interpretation as well as those of the first. Although Philadelphia represents the true church in the dispensation of Grace, it is nonetheless only one of the seven local churches in Asia at that time. Thus it shows that only a relatively small number of people (one seventh) may be raptured before the Tribulation. Furthermore, pre-tribulation rapture is not based purely on our being born again as children of God, but is dependent on one other condition, which is, our keeping the word of the patience of Christ. Do all believers today keep the word of the patience of Christ? Obviously not. It is therefore evident that not the whole body of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation. The second school contends, however, that this passage of Scripture does not refer to pre-tribulation rapture, for it speaks of keeping - that God will “keep” them safely through the Great Tribulation: just as, for example, when an entire house is caught on fire, one room may be left untouched; or for example, when the land of Egypt came under the plague, the land of Goshen where the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt went unscathed (see Ex. 9.26, 10.23). Such an explanation is erroneous because (1) the “keeping” in view here is not a keeping through but a keeping from.

But keeping someone from something can occur while protecting them while they go through it. Keeping someone from something does not necessarily require removing them completely from it. A firefighter can keep someone from dying in a fire by spraying water on the fire to keep it from harming them and putting a blanket around them to protect them even while they are still in the building while the fire is burning.

In the Greek text, after the word “keep” in this verse there is the word ek which means “out of” (as in the word ekklesia which means “the called out ones”). Here, therefore, ek signifies a being kept out of the Tribulation. And (2) “Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial” (3.10a) - As we have seen, the trial which is to come upon the whole world is the Great Tribulation; but notice that it is not a keeping from the trial but a keeping from the hour of the trial, In order to be kept out of the hour of trial, we must leave the world. There are only two ways for God to keep us out: death and rapture. And hence part of the living will be raptured before the Tribulation.

You say "ek" has to mean "out of" in Rev 3:10, but I disagree. The Greek phrase "tereo ek", which is translated as "keep...from" in Rev 3:10 is also used here:

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Jesus was not praying that they would be taken out of the world and kept out of the evil world. He was praying that they would be protected from evil while still in the world. That is how the phrase should be understood in Rev 3:10 as well. In that verse Jesus was telling them that because they had "kept the word of my patience" He would protect them from or through "the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world". Jesus doesn't need to remove us from the world in order to protect us from trials and tribulations. In no way, shape or form can Rev 3:10 be used as support for a pre-trib rapture because it has nothing to do with anyone being taken off of the earth.

[John146]

It says it is the "whole world" not the tribulation of the saints.

The tribulation of the saints has been going on the past 20 centuries. The 5th seal talks about those who have been martyred the past 20 centuries. The tribulation will no doubt culminate in the Tribulation itself.

Just because a Christian is martyred doesn't mean he is overtaken. But the only way God can promise a Christian if he keeps the word of His patience is to be kept from the Tribulation hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world is by being raptured. Death is no blessing.

For believers death is a blessing.

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Phil 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.