Dispensationalism

[quiet dove]

So far we have not had such a presentation. I await this dissertation.

Solid dispenstationalism simply teaches through the covenants and the ways in which God has dealt with men, revealing Himself through the years.

dispensation
oikonomia – house order, administration, order, stewardship
A dispensation is a period of time, during that period of time God deals with men a certain way, He gives to them a “stewardship, or makes the administration known to them that they are responsible to behave according to. A dispensation or administration is a way that God is dealing with men, a way that He has not dealt with them before. Revelation from God causes the change from a dispensation to a new dispensation; but there can be an unfolding or additional revelation that enlarge on a dispensation but do not change the dispensation to a new dispensation.

[Mark F]

No, what I am not taking hold of is the inaccurate presentation of what solid dispensationalism teaches. If we are going to get into the 'logical conclusions' thing, we can do that about all views but doing so amounts to nothing but opinion and judging what another may or may not do.

I was thinking along those lines as I considered a post. Seems to be a lot of broad strokes being painted. Something like a pre-trib discussion, you know-they are the most weak minded, lost, unable to properly interpret scripture, sorry excuse for Christians the world has ever known!! Well at least we're not alone, we are with the dispensationalists!! LOL!!

[Desperaux]

Solid dispenstationalism simply teaches through the covenants and the ways in which God has dealt with men, revealing Himself through the years.

dispensation
oikonomia – house order, administration, order, stewardship
A dispensation is a period of time, during that period of time God deals with men a certain way, He gives to them a “stewardship, or makes the administration known to them that they are responsible to behave according to. A dispensation or administration is a way that God is dealing with men, a way that He has not dealt with them before. Revelation from God causes the change from a dispensation to a new dispensation; but there can be an unfolding or additional revelation that enlarge on a dispensation but do not change the dispensation to a new dispensation.

This is a good explanation.

[Mark F]

What is evident, by their own admission, is that dispensationalists preach a different gospel. Ironically, those then that preach the true gospel of the kingdom are seen as preaching a different gospel.

Dispensationalism at it's extreme warns people from taking the gospels as applying to them, and warns them that others books, including the whole OT, are not for them. Books like Hebrews, James, Timothy, Peter etc...

Imagine being a follower of Christ and not taking his commands seriously? (Well that happens anyway)

So then dispensationalists are clearly saying..."we follow Paul!" The carnality of this is stated by none other than Paul himself.

To show that there is only one gospel and that Paul did not change the sayings of Jesus....

Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

So you say dispensationalists (by their own admission) preach a different gospel?

Where do you get this stuff?

[quiet dove]

I was thinking along those lines as I considered a post. Seems to be a lot of broad strokes being painted. Something like a pre-trib discussion, you know-they are the most weak minded, lost, unable to properly interpret scripture, sorry excuse for Christians the world has ever known!! Well at least we're not alone, we are with the dispensationalists!! LOL!!

All I can say is we are in a bunch of weak minded good company!!! And all spending most days looking up with our thoughts much of the time longing for that glorious moment. God is so awesome!!!

[episkopos]

Solid dispenstationalism simply teaches through the covenants and the ways in which God has dealt with men, revealing Himself through the years.

dispensation
oikonomia – house order, administration, order, stewardship
A dispensation is a period of time, during that period of time God deals with men a certain way, He gives to them a “stewardship, or makes the administration known to them that they are responsible to behave according to. A dispensation or administration is a way that God is dealing with men, a way that He has not dealt with them before. Revelation from God causes the change from a dispensation to a new dispensation; but there can be an unfolding or additional revelation that enlarge on a dispensation but do not change the dispensation to a new dispensation.

Is there such a thing as a dispensational view that does not seek to rebuild the wall of separation between the Jews and the Gentiles?

[Mark F]

Solid dispenstationalism simply teaches through the covenants and the ways in which God has dealt with men, revealing Himself through the years.

dispensation
oikonomia – house order, administration, order, stewardship
A dispensation is a period of time, during that period of time God deals with men a certain way, He gives to them a “stewardship, or makes the administration known to them that they are responsible to behave according to. A dispensation or administration is a way that God is dealing with men, a way that He has not dealt with them before. Revelation from God causes the change from a dispensation to a new dispensation; but there can be an unfolding or additional revelation that enlarge on a dispensation but do not change the dispensation to a new dispensation.

This in my opinion is an observation that can be concluded by reading the Scripture, my understanding (in a nutshell)of "dispensationalism" is noting and observing the very thing you mention.

I agree with Quiet Dove.

[Mark F]

Is there such a thing as a dispensational view that does not seek to rebuild the wall of separation between the Jews and the Gentiles?

Is that something like "the wall of seperation of church and state"? Which by the way is a big twisting of a meaning of something I can think of!!

I have never, repeat never have been taught to build a wall of seperation between Jews and Gentiles. My understanding is that God called out the Jews from amongst the Gentiles to accomplish His will and to demonstrate and provide redemption through a Jewish Messiah for ALL of mankind.

Does your Bible say something different?

[northwye]

Since the Niagra Bible Conference held annually from 1876 to 1897, dispensationalism has become by far the most popular man-made theology, taking over many Christian denominations. And this theology has been exported to other nations by American missionaries. It is very unlikely that a Christian in the United States has not heard the doctrines of this theology promoted from the pulpits of the churches, on the radio, TV, in books and magazines, on the Internet and in person to person discussions.

Some Christians who follow the doctrines of dispensationalism will say they are not dispensationalists. So, what are the fundamental doctrines of dispensationalism?

I won't quote from John Darby because some of his teachings are not literally followed now by mainstream dispensationalism, such as his theory of a return to a dispensation of law during the tribulation.

"Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says of classical dispensationalism
that the: "basic primise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God
expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today, 1966,
pp.44-45.

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church and Israel are two
distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan...These considerations
all arise from a literal method of interpretation." (page 193, J.
Dwight Pentecost,
Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965)....

In 1936, Lewis S. Chafer, a classical dispensationalist, defined
Scofield's literalism as "The outstanding characteristic of the
dispensationalist is ... that he believes every statement of the Bible
and gives to it the plain, natural meaning its words imply." From:
L. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,' Bibliotheca Sacra, 93, October
(1936), pp410, 417.

Charles C. Ryrie says "The word literal is perhaps not as good as
either the word normal or plain, but in any case it is interpretation
that does not spiritualize or allegorize as nondispensational
interpretation often does. The spiritualizing may be practiced to a
lesser or greater degree, but its presence in a system of
interpretation is indicative of a nondispensational approach." From:
Dispensationalism. Charles C. Ryrie. Moody Press, Chicago. 1995.

The foundational postulates of dispensationalism are that God has two separate
peoples, Israel and the church, and that scripture must always be given a literal
interpretation (unless the interpretation is totally absurd).

In dispensationalism, there is one Israel, or "all Israel." Those of ethnic Israel who
rejected Christ are, in dispensationalism, still Israel, and the implication is that they remain
God's chosen people. Israel cannot be Israel reborn in Christ, or the israel of God of Galatians 6: 16, both former Israelites and former Gentiles.

In dispensationalism the implication is that the identity of the believer in Christ is the church. Sometimes
dispensationalists say Christians who were formerly Jews are part of the church, and sometimes they seem to say they are a separate group of God's people. The identity of the Gentile Christian cannot be in Israel. To be consistent with this reasoning, the church must have been grafted into Paul's olive tree of Romans 11. But Paul does not say that.

Apparently in dispensationalism, there is no "former Jew."

Dispensationalists say their their postulate that scripture must be interpreted literally leads them to insist
that Israel in the Bible must always be ethnic Israel. Which means that in dispensationalism Paul cannot be using "Israel" as a different group
than ethnic Israel - in Romans 11: 26 and Galatians 6: 16. But for John Calvin using scripture to interpret scripture, Paul did not mean ethnic Israel in these two texts. He meant Israel reborn in Christ, made up of believing Gentiles and Israelites. Martin Luther was not explicit like Calvin in saying Romans 11: 26 refers to both elect Jews and elect Gentiles. According to http://www.quodlibet.net/articles/jo...eformers.shtml Luther said that “now the Jews have gone into the true Babylonian exile of unbelief.”

Dispensationalism has its peculiar eschatology, or end time prophecy scenario, but the fundamental starting points of the theology is its assumption of interpretative authority, or hermeneutics, from the pagan god Hermes. And the hermenutics of dispensationalism has an influence upon its soteriology, or doctrines of salvation. Its soteriology makes salvation easier than did that of Reformation theology of Lutheranism and Calvinism. The Gospel of dispensationalism tends to be made up of fewer parts of the New Testament, though there are variations among dispensationalists.

The emphasis upon "all Israel" as being now one of God's people, and still his chosen, and the literal hermenutic leads dispensationalist followers to interpret many Old Testament and one or two New Testament scriptures to say that in the tribulation "all Israel" will be saved. This can override or replace the older Protestant method of interpreting scripture by scripture and on interpreting Old Testament scripture by New Testament texts, when they are ones that do so, as does Acts 15: 8-17, where James says the "prophets" agree with what Peter said.

[Neanias]

Christ has made one new man in him, to try and divide again is to misunderstand the purpose and will of God.

God is not looking to find a way to save men in the sense of trying to find a way where they can be excused. He is trying to find a way to save them of their current corruption and make them like him, in character and Spirit!

Dispensation basically teaches that God has found different 'schemes' to save men. This only reveals man's desire to saved by a scheme, not God's way of salvation.

[episkopos]

Since the Niagra Bible Conference held annually from 1876 to 1897, dispensationalism has become by far the most popular man-made theology, taking over many Christian denominations. And this theology has been exported to other nations by American missionaries. It is very unlikely that a Christian in the United States has not heard the doctrines of this theology promoted from the pulpits of the churches, on the radio, TV, in books and magazines, on the Internet and in person to person discussions.

Some Christians who follow the doctrines of dispensationalism will say they are not dispensationalists. So, what are the fundamental doctrines of dispensationalism?

I won't quote from John Darby because some of his teachings are not literally followed now by mainstream dispensationalism, such as his theory of a return to a dispensation of law during the tribulation.

"Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says of classical dispensationalism
that the: "basic primise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God
expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today, 1966,
pp.44-45.

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church and Israel are two
distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan...These considerations
all arise from a literal method of interpretation." (page 193, J.
Dwight Pentecost,
Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965)....

In 1936, Lewis S. Chafer, a classical dispensationalist, defined
Scofield's literalism as "The outstanding characteristic of the
dispensationalist is ... that he believes every statement of the Bible
and gives to it the plain, natural meaning its words imply." From:
L. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,' Bibliotheca Sacra, 93, October
(1936), pp410, 417.

Charles C. Ryrie says "The word literal is perhaps not as good as
either the word normal or plain, but in any case it is interpretation
that does not spiritualize or allegorize as nondispensational
interpretation often does. The spiritualizing may be practiced to a
lesser or greater degree, but its presence in a system of
interpretation is indicative of a nondispensational approach." From:
Dispensationalism. Charles C. Ryrie. Moody Press, Chicago. 1995.

The foundational postulates of dispensationalism are that God has two separate
peoples, Israel and the church, and that scripture must always be given a literal
interpretation (unless the interpretation is totally absurd).

In dispensationalism, there is one Israel, or "all Israel." Those of ethnic Israel who
rejected Christ are, in dispensationalism, still Israel, and the implication is that they remain
God's chosen people. Israel cannot be Israel reborn in Christ, or the israel of God of Galatians 6: 16, both former Israelites and former Gentiles.

In dispensationalism the implication is that the identity of the believer in Christ is the church. Sometimes
dispensationalists say Christians who were formerly Jews are part of the church, and sometimes they seem to say they are a separate group of God's people. The identity of the Gentile Christian cannot be in Israel.
Apparently in dispensationalism, there is no "former Jew."

Dispensationalists say their their postulate that scripture must be interpreted literally leads them to insist
that Israel in the Bible must always be ethnic Israel. To be consistent with this reasoning, the church must have been grafted into Paul's olive tree of Romans 11. But Paul does not say that.

Dispensationalism has its peculiar eschatology, or end time prophecy scenario, but the fundamental starting points of the theology is its assumption of interpretative authority, or hermeneutics, from the pagan god Hermes. And the hermenutics of dispensationalism has an influence upon its soteriology, or doctrines of salvation. Its soteriology makes salvation easier than did that of Reformation theology of Lutheranism and Calvinism. Its Gospel may be made up of fewer parts of the New Testament.

The emphasis upon "all Israel" as being now one of God's people, and still his chosen, and the literal hermenutic leads dispensationalist followers to interpret many Old Testament and one or two New Testament scriptures to say that in the tribulation "all Israel" will be saved. This can override or replace the older Protestant method of interpreting scripture by scripture and on interpreting Old Testament scripture by New Testament texts, when they are ones that do so, as does Acts 15: 8-17, where James says the "prophets" agree with what Peter said.

Finally!!!! Thank you for this!


basic primise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God
expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity."

This is the primary purpose of dispensationalism...to divide again what God has paid the price for to bring about a reconciliation. What God has joined together let no man divide asunder.

[episkopos]

Is that something like "the wall of seperation of church and state"? Which by the way is a big twisting of a meaning of something I can think of!!

I have never, repeat never have been taught to build a wall of seperation between Jews and Gentiles. My understanding is that God called out the Jews from amongst the Gentiles to accomplish His will and to demonstrate and provide redemption through a Jewish Messiah for ALL of mankind.

Does your Bible say something different?

I fail to see what you are saying. What does this have yo do with dispensationalism?

[quiet dove]

Since the Niagra Bible Conference held annually from 1876 to 1897, dispensationalism has become by far the most popular man-made theology, taking over many Christian denominations. And this theology has been exported to other nations by American missionaries. It is very unlikely that a Christian in the United States has not heard the doctrines of this theology promoted from the pulpits of the churches, on the radio, TV, in books and magazines, on the Internet and in person to person discussions.

Some Christians who follow the doctrines of dispensationalism will say they are not dispensationalists. So, what are the fundamental doctrines of dispensationalism?

I won't quote from John Darby because some of his teachings are not literally followed now by mainstream dispensationalism, such as his theory of a return to a dispensation of law during the tribulation.

"Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says of classical dispensationalism
that the: "basic primise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God
expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today, 1966,
pp.44-45.

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church and Israel are two
distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan...These considerations
all arise from a literal method of interpretation." (page 193, J.
Dwight Pentecost,
Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965)....

In 1936, Lewis S. Chafer, a classical dispensationalist, defined
Scofield's literalism as "The outstanding characteristic of the
dispensationalist is ... that he believes every statement of the Bible
and gives to it the plain, natural meaning its words imply." From:
L. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,' Bibliotheca Sacra, 93, October
(1936), pp410, 417.

Charles C. Ryrie says "The word literal is perhaps not as good as
either the word normal or plain, but in any case it is interpretation
that does not spiritualize or allegorize as nondispensational
interpretation often does. The spiritualizing may be practiced to a
lesser or greater degree, but its presence in a system of
interpretation is indicative of a nondispensational approach." From:
Dispensationalism. Charles C. Ryrie. Moody Press, Chicago. 1995.

The foundational postulates of dispensationalism are that God has two separate
peoples, Israel and the church, and that scripture must always be given a literal
interpretation (unless the interpretation is totally absurd).

In dispensationalism, there is one Israel, or "all Israel." Those of ethnic Israel who
rejected Christ are, in dispensationalism, still Israel, and the implication is that they remain
God's chosen people. Israel cannot be Israel reborn in Christ, or the israel of God of Galatians 6: 16, both former Israelites and former Gentiles.

In dispensationalism the implication is that the identity of the believer in Christ is the church. Sometimes
dispensationalists say Christians who were formerly Jews are part of the church, and sometimes they seem to say they are a separate group of God's people. The identity of the Gentile Christian cannot be in Israel.
Apparently in dispensationalism, there is no "former Jew."

Dispensationalists say their their postulate that scripture must be interpreted literally leads them to insist
that Israel in the Bible must always be ethnic Israel. To be consistent with this reasoning, the church must have been grafted into Paul's olive tree of Romans 11. But Paul does not say that.

Dispensationalism has its peculiar eschatology, or end time prophecy scenario, but the fundamental starting points of the theology is its assumption of interpretative authority, or hermeneutics, from the pagan god Hermes. And the hermenutics of dispensationalism has an influence upon its soteriology, or doctrines of salvation. Its soteriology makes salvation easier than did that of Reformation theology of Lutheranism and Calvinism. Its Gospel may be made up of fewer parts of the New Testament.

The emphasis upon "all Israel" as being now one of God's people, and still his chosen, and the literal hermenutic leads dispensationalist followers to interpret many Old Testament and one or two New Testament scriptures to say that in the tribulation "all Israel" will be saved. This can override or replace the older Protestant method of interpreting scripture by scripture and on interpreting Old Testament scripture by New Testament texts, when they are ones that do so, as does Acts 15: 8-17, where James says the "prophets" agree with what Peter said.

Considering that prophecy as thus far been fulfilled literally, I'm sticking with literal. I don't know, maybe literal equals peculiar.... But I guess I will just have to be peculiar because Jesus literal fulfillment of prophecy is how He paid for my sins so as peculiar as it may be, I am betting on Him to continue fulfilling prophecy just as literally in the future. ...whatever that ends up meaning. The inability of the finite mind of men to comprehend it is not surprising because the finite mind of men did not grasp the literal fulfillment of a Messiah that would come and die for sin either. So if dispensationalism means taking the Bible literally, as opposed to allegorically, then just call me peculiar

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Yea, just call me peculiar, that will work for me.

[episkopos]

Considering that prophecy as thus far been fulfilled literally, I'm sticking with literal. I don't know, maybe literal equals peculiar.... But I guess I will just have to be peculiar because Jesus literal fulfillment of prophecy is how He paid for my sins so as peculiar as it may be, I am betting on Him to continue fulfilling prophecy just as literally in the future. ...whatever that ends up meaning. The inability of the finite mind of men to comprehend it is not surprising because the finite mind of men did not grasp the literal fulfillment of a Messiah that would come and die for sin either.

But if the Holy Spirit is made available to help us understand the bible, are we still to trust in the interpretations of men?

[quiet dove]

But if the Holy Spirit is made available to help us understand the bible, are we still to trust in the interpretations of men?

We are to trust the Holy Spirit, but just because someone disagrees with me does not equate to me not then listening to the Holy Spirit. Plus, listening to the Spirit also means knowing the difference between an accurate teacher and an inaccurate, again, someone's disagreement does not equate to not listening to the Spirit just because someone disagrees with the teacher they chose.

Teachers are God sent, pastors, preachers, deacons, elders, are all Biblical. But each individual is still responsible for listening to the Spirit and knowing which teachers are to be listen to and which ones ignored. Dispensationalist are no more 'effected' by teachers than those who are not dispensationlist, if they think they are, they kid themselves. We are all influenced here and there and to believe differently of ourselves is kidding ourselves.

I simply will not apologize for having teachers, but will praise the Lord for them, He has been merciful in doing so.