The pain of sanctification

[Equipped_4_Love]

Dear friends......I have been walking with Christ for about 6 years now, and as I look back at my own growth as a Christian, well, I'm not sure what to think.

It's sort of hard to articulate, but I will try.

While I find myself growing in my love for the Lord and my knowledge of Him, I have also seen myself transforming into what I see as a very ugly person. I find myself struggling with things, with sins, that I have never seemed to struggle with before, and as I get closer to Christ, my struggle just seems to increase. This I seriously do not understand, as I am supposed to be being transformed into the image of Christ -- but some of the feelings that I am having to battle with, and the thoughts that come into my head, are anything but Christlike -- and my growth in Christ just seems to exacerbate this.

I have asked the Lord for forgiveness, and I truly have the desire to repent, but I just find that my growth in the Lord seems to exacerbate these things, and I just don't understand.

I lean on Scriptures about taking every thought captive, relying on the Lord's strength, and allowing the Lord to reveal the condition of my heart to me. I have tried to rationalize this -- perhaps the Lord is trying to teach me something about the condition of my heart? Or perhaps it is an attack of the enemy?! Either way, some days, I just feel tormented by my sin. I hate it, and I just can't to gain vistory over these things.

This process of sanctification I find to be a very painful one, in that I realize that my sin is unpleasing to the Lord. It is getting to the point where I don't even know where I stand with the Lord anymore. How can I be so sinful and still be considered one of His children?! These thoughts that I am dealing with, in my estimation, are straight from the pit of hell, and I feel so evil and unworthy.

I have told the Lord that I do NOT want to have to let Him go, but I have seriously had thoughts of just giving up. I have not because whenever I think such things, I feel the Spirit of the Lord drawing me near, and I know that he does not want me to leave Him, but if I keep hurting Him and having to draw on His mercy and grace -- we are NOT supposed to continue in sin, yet it seems I cannot shake these evil thoughts and the own wicked condition of my heart. I am not sure if I'm being sanctified or if I'm stuck in a bad place.....and if I am, why should I continue to blaspheme His name by calling myself a Christian.

I am in torments all of the time. Is this REALLY what the process of sanctification is all about?! The Bibkle says that we are to put away our sin, but I just can't seem to....and I am thinking horrible thoughts toward other Christians, which is the worst.

Its so frustrating!!!

[Indueseason]

The Lord is faithful to reveal to us the condition of our heart as we grow in Him. It helps us to cling to Him, for we realise that only He can change it. When we see the condition of our own heart, we are blessed, for no longer can we pretend to ourselves and others.There is no room for self righteousness. It seems that our gracious Lord takes us through this very frustrating process, where we are so keen to walk in obedience, yet we just cannot overcome in certain areas. The harder we try, the more our sinful nature is revealed. Deep rooted sins come rising up from no where and we feel like we can do nothing right. We wonder how we could have managed to walk with the Lord while such sin is hidden in our hearts. It is a painful time in our walk and a struggle, but it takes us to a blessed point. There comes a time when we can fight no more, and we find ourself at a cross roads in our walk. Do we continue to struggle along this path, even though we know we're failing miserably.Or do we give up and accept that this walk is just too hard for us. The thought of giving up causes us so much pain, we can't walk away from the Lord who loves us and rescued us,yet how can we continue in this losing battle. When we can bear it no more, we cry out to the Lord and we simply surrender. We fall before Him in repentance, content for Christ to do whatever He wants with us. If He wills for us to perish in this sinful state, then He is good and knows best.All we can do is accept His will. But if He desires us to walk away from our sin, then He will have to do it. In that moment of surrender, the fight has been won! It was what it was all about from the start. Complete surrender. Suddenly, everything is easier.Our heart is different, it has been changed. The deep rooted sin that troubled us so, seems no threat to the new heart. Now it is easier to walk in obedience, in the light, and harder to walk in sin and darkness. Now it is natural to walk as we are called to. The burden has been lifted off of us, and we walk in His power and strength to over come the sin that held us down. He and He alone has caused us to overcome.All we did was surrender all to Him. While we are still a work in progress, the walk is easier.

This has been my experience. I had been walking with the Lord for about 4-5 years when it all started to fall apart, or so it seemed. Now I'm not sure if what your experiencing is similar, or if you really are under attack from the enemy, but the same surrender and genuine repentance, should work for either situation. I do pray that your struggle will come to an end soon. The Lord is faithful, refuse to let Him go!

blessings to you

[DDGresham1]

Equiped, I understand exactly what you are talking about. For me, it came down to what exactly Christ was trying to teach me and have me understand. That simply is love. The bible says that without love we have nothing. I struggled with anger, lust, envy etc. I could not get these thoughts off of my mind. I had to ask myself "why do I feel this way" or "is this thought showing love toward others?" If not, then what would be a Christ like response or thought in my mind? I had to surrender my views on what my life would be like as well. I found that many of these thoughts were a result of me trying to exercise my will on my life. When things didn't go my way, I became angry and had bad thoughts. Learning to surrender my life to God's will helped me more than anything.

[episkopos]

Dear friends......I have been walking with Christ for about 6 years now, and as I look back at my own growth as a Christian, well, I'm not sure what to think.

It's sort of hard to articulate, but I will try.

While I find myself growing in my love for the Lord and my knowledge of Him, I have also seen myself transforming into what I see as a very ugly person. I find myself struggling with things, with sins, that I have never seemed to struggle with before, and as I get closer to Christ, my struggle just seems to increase. This I seriously do not understand, as I am supposed to be being transformed into the image of Christ -- but some of the feelings that I am having to battle with, and the thoughts that come into my head, are anything but Christlike -- and my growth in Christ just seems to exacerbate this.

I have asked the Lord for forgiveness, and I truly have the desire to repent, but I just find that my growth in the Lord seems to exacerbate these things, and I just don't understand.

I lean on Scriptures about taking every thought captive, relying on the Lord's strength, and allowing the Lord to reveal the condition of my heart to me. I have tried to rationalize this -- perhaps the Lord is trying to teach me something about the condition of my heart? Or perhaps it is an attack of the enemy?! Either way, some days, I just feel tormented by my sin. I hate it, and I just can't to gain vistory over these things.

This process of sanctification I find to be a very painful one, in that I realize that my sin is unpleasing to the Lord. It is getting to the point where I don't even know where I stand with the Lord anymore. How can I be so sinful and still be considered one of His children?! These thoughts that I am dealing with, in my estimation, are straight from the pit of hell, and I feel so evil and unworthy.

I have told the Lord that I do NOT want to have to let Him go, but I have seriously had thoughts of just giving up. I have not because whenever I think such things, I feel the Spirit of the Lord drawing me near, and I know that he does not want me to leave Him, but if I keep hurting Him and having to draw on His mercy and grace -- we are NOT supposed to continue in sin, yet it seems I cannot shake these evil thoughts and the own wicked condition of my heart. I am not sure if I'm being sanctified or if I'm stuck in a bad place.....and if I am, why should I continue to blaspheme His name by calling myself a Christian.

I am in torments all of the time. Is this REALLY what the process of sanctification is all about?! The Bibkle says that we are to put away our sin, but I just can't seem to....and I am thinking horrible thoughts toward other Christians, which is the worst.

Its so frustrating!!!

Good to see this level of honesty!

We cannot live in a vacuum. As we are pressured from the world to conform to the world, we find the greater work of the Spirit in us under MORE attack than before.

That is because the difference between ourselves and the world is getting greater. We become lonely and despondent even as we are being renewed daily! How can this be?

The answer is to be surrounded by others with this same life...as much as possible. This will not necessarily eliminate the pressures entirely, but it will give you less to have to face on your own.

The deeper your training, the more community you will need. Middle class Christendom will only kill you. You need to be among disciples of Christ who are undergoing the same training. Christianity is a team sport. It is a fellowship. We are not really meant to tackle this on our own. A few hours a week of "meetings" won't do it either. You need a constant daily fellowship with those whom you are deeply committed to, and they to you.

Maranatha!

John

[Dani H]

I understand that and used to share your struggles. However, nowadays, I've realized that there is much in me that God didn't put there. Basically, sanctification involves Him pulling those things (that are dead because they came from fallen man in a fallen world) out of our systems and replacing them with His life. I've had to lay down personal expectations, other people's expectations, and accept the fact that God is FOR me, He wants to bring LIFE to me, and it's really not about sin; it's about the root of sin, which is our fallenness and the dead places inside us that need resurrecting.

Ask Jesus for His resurrection power to raise you up to His life. It's not something WE can do. That's why we have His Spirit, who raised Christ from the dead. He is the resurrection power of God! In us and with us! He can do it! Our role is to submit, surrender, give in, yield, be willing, and let Him do what He came to do.

The walk isn't too hard for us. It's impossible, actually, when WE think WE have to do it. Because we can't put ourselves to death, we can only be willing to accept that death has already happened, let God finish the process, be done with it, and bring new life.

Yes I know we are to "put to death the deeds of the body" but it's BY THE SPIRIT !! Never by our own power, cause we don't have that kind of power.

If a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies ...

If we don't take up our cross we can't be His disciples ...

That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings ...

It is no longer I who live but Christ (with His resurrection power) who lives within me ...

I died with Him so now I live with Him ...

I am dead, resurrected, and glorified ....


It's all one package, one continuous thought, that always applies, all the time, to everything. That is what Jesus did. But what we do is give people crumbs and wonder why they're starving, see? I say nay nay!

Study out the whole crucifixion ... death ... resurrection bit and you will see for yourself and the lights will come on.

[Eyelog]

Indueseason said:

if He desires us to walk away from our sin, then He will have to do it.

Hi, Indu. I really like your post ... a lot!!!

I wonder, what can we do to bring this principle to fruition?

1 John 3:3
And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

So many of your points are spot on here. I just wonder if it is always true that He must make us walk away from sin. How can we purify ourselves if He must do it all?

Not being contentious here. Just hoping for more clarification to your wonderful explanation.

God bless you.

[Neanias]

Good to see this level of honesty!

We cannot live in a vacuum. As we are pressured from the world to conform to the world, we find the greater work of the Spirit in us under MORE attack than before.

That is because the difference between ourselves and the world is getting greater. We become lonely and despondent even as we are being renewed daily! How can this be?

The answer is to be surrounded by others with this same life...as much as possible. This will not necessarily eliminate the pressures entirely, but it will give you less to have to face on your own.

The deeper your training, the more community you will need. Middle class Christendom will only kill you. You need to be among disciples of Christ who are undergoing the same training. Christianity is a team sport. It is a fellowship. We are not really meant to tackle this on our own. A few hours a week of "meetings" won't do it either. You need a constant daily fellowship with those whom you are deeply committed to, and they to you.

Maranatha!

John

I was just experiencing this lately!

The more we love the Lord and his ways, the less we are loved! The whole world and it's ways is set against us, and the more we are conformed to Christ, the more they will hate us as they hated him!

We have a hope, if we suffer with him, we will also be glorified with him!

Hang in there, Equipped_4_Love, the Lord is equipping you to love more and more like him!

May he abound to you in grace, and every spiritual blessing!

[episkopos]

I was just experiencing this lately!

The more we love the Lord and his ways, the less we are loved! The whole world and it's ways is set against us, and the more we are conformed to Christ, the more they will hate us as they hated him!

We have a hope, if we suffer with him, we will also be glorified with him!

Hang in there, Equipped_4_Love, the Lord is equipping you to love more and more like him!

May he abound to you in grace, and every spiritual blessing!

This is not understood because people are going with the flow. If they tried to stand against that flow, we would see far more desperation....and ultimately far more fellowship.

[Neanias]

Yes, I agree.

The world has used Jesus as just another reason to sleep comfortably, instead of the agent of awakening he truly is!

[Eyelog]

DaniH said:

Basically, sanctification involves Him pulling those things (that are dead because they came from fallen man in a fallen world) out of our systems and replacing them with His life. ... Ask Jesus for His resurrection power to raise you up to His life. It's not something WE can do. ... Our role is to submit, surrender, give in, yield, be willing, and let Him do what He came to do. ... it's BY THE SPIRIT !! Never by our own power, cause we don't have that kind of power.

Hi, Dani. I agree with all that you have said here. I especially like your definition of sanctifcation!

However, as true as your statements are, they are subject to innumerable interpretations. I have a couple questions for clarification.

1. If we are to be willing, we must be willing to do what? If it requires our willingness, to what extent is will-power a requisite?

2. If I understand you correctly, what you believe it takes to become sanctified is essentially asking for it and surrendering to it. Is there anything I am missing here?

God Bless you!

[Caleb]

Hi Equipped!

I agree with Indueseason, but we face these testing times often.
I don't believe that we come to a place when we can say that we have arrived. We grow from faith to faith and glory to glory, the Lord always giving us the increase of Himself.
Paul said 'not that I have yet attained, but I press on towards the goal'

So do you love the Lord Jesus Christ as yourself, or as God, with all your heart, soul, strength and mind?

A couple of things we need to see:
We don't improve.
God is not in the 'improving' business. He is in the replacing business, so that it is no longer 'I' but Christ in me.
To be the greatest, we become the least. To become the first, we become the last. To take the highest places, we take the lower seat.
It is for God to raise us up by His Spirit.

Apart from our needs, desires and actions, the Lord will also question and deal with our motives.

Why do we want this closer walk with the Lord?
Why do we want the Lord to deal with this sin or that sin? Etc...

Is it so that you can feel better about yourself?
Is it so that others will more accept you, and think better of you? Etc....

[Indueseason]

Good to see this level of honesty!

We cannot live in a vacuum. As we are pressured from the world to conform to the world, we find the greater work of the Spirit in us under MORE attack than before.

That is because the difference between ourselves and the world is getting greater. We become lonely and despondent even as we are being renewed daily! How can this be?

The answer is to be surrounded by others with this same life...as much as possible. This will not necessarily eliminate the pressures entirely, but it will give you less to have to face on your own.

The deeper your training, the more community you will need. Middle class Christendom will only kill you. You need to be among disciples of Christ who are undergoing the same training. Christianity is a team sport. It is a fellowship. We are not really meant to tackle this on our own. A few hours a week of "meetings" won't do it either. You need a constant daily fellowship with those whom you are deeply committed to, and they to you.

Maranatha!

John

Very true, fellowship is very important, yet it's easier said than done these days.

blessings to you

[Indueseason]

Indueseason said:

Hi, Indu. I really like your post ... a lot!!!

I wonder, what can we do to bring this principle to fruition?

1 John 3:3
And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

So many of your points are spot on here. I just wonder if it is always true that He must make us walk away from sin. How can we purify ourselves if He must do it all?

Not being contentious here. Just hoping for more clarification to your wonderful explanation.

God bless you.

We purify ourselves by turning away from our sin and walking in obedience to our Master. It is our fair duty to obey and do all that He asks of of us, however for me personally, I found that I needed more of God when it came to dealing with more deep rooted and persistent sin.I still desired my will more than I wanted His will in my life. It was a give and take situation, I gave up my will and He took away the hold those sins had over me. What did I do for this to happen? I died so that Christ could live through me.It made a huge difference to my walk.May He continue the good work He began in me then!

blessings to you

[Dani H]

1. If we are to be willing, we must be willing to do what?

Die.


To everything that is contrary to God and the way He originally created us, before the fall.

If it requires our willingness, to what extent is will-power a requisite?

It's not will power. It's the decision to come into agreement with God and His desire to kill the man-made fallenness within us so He can raise us to new life. We make the decision, and GOD supplies the power.

Without Jesus we can do nothing, remember? He meant that when He said it. Because He recognized our true state for what it actually is. Powerless and helpless to bring life to something that is dead. Because death begets death, and life begets life.

But ... God has the power to bring life from death, because His reach goes beyond death and to the resurrection. Death completely stops satan's power (because ultimately his power is that of death) and it stops sin's power (because the ultimate fruit of sin is death), and after death is when God's true power shines and when He takes over, permanently and irretrievably. Woo hoo!

Because when we fell, so did our will and our whole entire being. Our disconnectedness from God affects all areas, including our will. Which is why we have desires and wants that run contrary to God's desires for us. James addresses that very specifically. Desire when full grown births sin and sin when full grown births death. It's the same principle, all the time, all the way through. It never changes.

Our will is only free as far as it is in line with who we were created by God to be and to do what we were created by God to do. Yes, our will can absolutely be bound up.

People confuse free will with the freedom we actually have, which is the freedom to make decisions for ourselves. God gave each of us that capacity.

So even if we're not willing ... we can be willing to be MADE willing. God is able. You side with Him, and He will pull you through, every time, without fail.

2. If I understand you correctly, what you believe it takes to become sanctified is essentially asking for it and surrendering to it. Is there anything I am missing here?

Well, what did you do when you got saved? You believed, and then asked and gave in to Jesus' lordship and control. And received His resurrection power, and were born anew.

Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door shall be opened.

Why would the God who started us on that road in this way, all of a sudden change methods?

As you received Christ, so continue in Him. Same method, all the way through. Believe, submit, receive, be transformed. Ta-daa.

[Eyelog]

DaniH said:

Believe, submit, receive, be transformed. Ta-daa.

Hypothetically, let's say I believed and submitted on the issue of ... let's just say gossiping.

Now, I'm awaitin' to receive that transformation. In the mean time, oops, I told Harry what Sally said about Ruth's relationship with Boaz!

Now Ruth is all hurt. How unfaithful of me! How calloused and unloving! How sinful.

Now, don't you think Ruth deserved better than that? Don't you think I could have used a little self-control there? Don't you think Boaz should rightly confront me and tell me to get it together, and knock it off?

And what do you think it should avail me, if I say, "Boaz, Ruth, c'mon. You can't expect me to be sanctified until I receive my transformation. Don't you know I've believed and submitted it all to Him? Don't you know it would have been wrong of me to try to obey God to not gossip in my own strength? Don't you know it's NOT about will power? It's all about His power. Don't you know God has to stop gossiping for me?"

Don't you think that if I restated your account of the sanctifcation process to Ruth and Boaz God might send a knuckle sandwich my way in order to discipline me on this subject a tad [I mean a ta-daa]?

So, what will you tell me? God knew I needed a knuckle sandwich in order to get sanctified about gossip?

Dani, I do not disagree with what you have said. But I find it incomplete. Are you sure there is nothing to add to your 4 part description of the sanctifciation process?