What and/or Who Will Be the Primary Source Ushering in the Eschaton/New World Order?

[John146]

Yes, I primarily refer to it as "Satan's Short Season", but that isn't universally received. What do you see preceeding that time and do you perceive it to be months/years/decades, etc.?

Are you asking what I see as preceding Satan's little season? Nothing in particular, I guess. No specific events that I can point to, anyway. How about yourself? As far as the length of Satan's little season (I think that's what you're asking, right?) I just don't know. It doesn't say and I don't really have a guess.

Will there be a world-wide escalation of an agenda of some sort? How would you express it from your view as a Historicist/Idealist (as I recall?)? :-)

I don't know about anything specific but the time period will be marked by a falling away from the faith (I see 2 Thess 2:3 as referring to Satan's little season) and a time where wickedness will no longer be restrained (2 Thess 2:6-7). For all I know that time has already begun. If you look at the world today and the way things seem to be going you have to wonder.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Are you asking what I see as preceding Satan's little season? Nothing in particular, I guess. No specific events that I can point to, anyway. How about yourself? As far as the length of Satan's little season (I think that's what you're asking, right?) I just don't know. It doesn't say and I don't really have a guess.

I don't see even a hint of any specific length of time. I see a number of things coalescing to usher in that short season. It's ongoing and very specific.

I just wanted to see if others had a view of where it was all coming from.

I don't know about anything specific but the time period will be marked by a falling away from the faith (I see 2 Thess 2:3 as referring to Satan's little season) and a time where wickedness will no longer be restrained (2 Thess 2:6-7). For all I know that time has already begun. If you look at the world today and the way things seem to be going you have to wonder.

Understood. Thanx. :-)

[DurbanDude]

No waffling. No vagueness. No stammering. No bet-hedging. No generalizations.
(And no oversimplification by merely attributing it to Satan and/or demons, etc.)

Who is and/or will be at the healm and pushing the agenda?

(Humor and sarcasm welcome; but not instead of serious answers.) :-P

I believe it is an alliance between the Roman Catholic Institution and Zionist Jews, using Western Europe as their base of operations. They are currently using the USA as their main military influence (funding Israel, in Iraq and Afghanistan) to establish a west-friendly Middle Eastern superstate with Israel and Turkey at the helm. In this way Rome (the woman) rides the beast (the new empire that arises from the Meditteranean sea). I don't believe there will be a definite one world government or one world religion as originally proposed in the standard dispensational view, more some loose affiliations between east and west, leading to a final breakdown at Armageddon.

I have this view on Europe, not only because of current events, but mainly because of biblical predictions of the fourth kingdom, Rome (Western europe) becoming dominant before the second coming (see daniel 7), and yet using another country (little horn) as its base of power at the end. Quite a few verses have clear hints that this final dominant power is based in Israel yet with rome also involved (the woman rides the beast)

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I believe it is an alliance between the Roman Catholic Institution and Zionist Jews, using Western Europe as their base of operations. They are currently using the USA as their main military influence (funding Israel, in Iraq and Afghanistan) to establish a west-friendly Middle Eastern superstate with Israel and Turkey at the helm. In this way Rome (the woman) rides the beast (the new empire that arises from the Meditteranean sea). I don't believe there will be a definite one world government or one world religion as originally proposed in the standard dispensational view, more some loose affiliations between east and west, leading to a final breakdown at Armageddon.

I have this view on Europe, not only because of current events, but mainly because of biblical predictions of the fourth kingdom, Rome (Western europe) becoming dominant before the second coming (see daniel 7), and yet using another country (little horn) as its base of power at the end. Quite a few verses have clear hints that this final dominant power is based in Israel yet with rome also involved (the woman rides the beast)

Oh, how close you are, DD. Very good stuff. Tell us more about these Zionist Jews. :-)

[DurbanDude]

Oh, how close you are, DD. Very good stuff. Tell us more about these Zionist Jews. :-)

Shot bru!

Rather than concentrate on conspiracy theory I'll mention some prophecies.

1) Daniel 7 says that its not Rome itself, but a small country within the Roman sphere of influence that becomes powerful in the end. (thats what horns are, powerpoints of an empire) (only Israel is a small country with vast influence)
2) Daniel 11 says this evil leader takes over Israel earlier, and set up his tents there
3) Rev 13 says this final beast empire arises from the sea
4) Rev 13 says this beast empire resembles the Macedonian empire (leopard)
5) Rev 17 says this country is expected to re-appear by Christians, but surprises non-christians (hey only Israel fits this)
6) Thessalonians says he is "crowned" or establishes his power amidst great signs in Israel.

[dunedain]

Okay, answer me this:

The beast from the sea; how many horns? 10. The house of Israel; how many tribes? 10.
The beast from the earth; horns? 2. House of Judah; tribes? 2.

Okay so one of the heads of the beast is mortally wounded. It's a mortal wound, right? Then, wait- lo and behold, it's restored to life. It's a miracle! Mortally wounded. Brought back. All the world wonders, right? They're all wondering over this beast that was, and was not, and yet is... does this sound at all familiar?

Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
Jer 24:1 The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Okay, answer me this:

The beast from the sea; how many horns? 10. The house of Israel; how many tribes? 10.
The beast from the earth; horns? 2. House of Judah; tribes? 2.

Okay so one of the heads of the beast is mortally wounded. It's a mortal wound, right? Then, wait- lo and behold, it's restored to life. It's a miracle! Mortally wounded. Brought back. All the world wonders, right? They're all wondering over this beast that was, and was not, and yet is... does this sound at all familiar?

Gen 25:22 And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD.
Jer 24:1 The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD.

Keep it rollin'...

PM me, if neccessary.

[seeker_truth]

No waffling. No vagueness. No stammering. No bet-hedging. No generalizations.
(And no oversimplification by merely attributing it to Satan and/or demons, etc.)

Who is and/or will be at the healm and pushing the agenda?

(Humor and sarcasm welcome; but not instead of serious answers.) :-P

The 7th Gentile Kingdom upon the earth is not a world order, but a kingdom made up of ten Arabic nations, from the Middle East.

Scripture tell us that the leader of this kingdom will be an Assyrian, Isa.10:12, which would have him coming forth from northern Iraq..

Then we have Rev.13:11, identifying the Assyrian of the 7th Gentile kingdom as having two horns like a lamb, which means he will be both a religious and a political leader.

The nations that play a major role in the end time can be found in the prophetic words of Balaam, Num. 24:14-24, ships from the coast of Chittim/Cyprus/Turkey/Gog, will destroy Asshur.

Asshur is further identified by the term Eber, meaning, between two rivers, referring to the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. Only one nation is located between these two rivers, Iraq.

[DurbanDude]

The 7th Gentile Kingdom upon the earth is not a world order, but a kingdom made up of ten Arabic nations, from the Middle East.

Scripture tell us that the leader of this kingdom will be an Assyrian, Isa.10:12, which would have him coming forth from northern Iraq..

Then we have Rev.13:11, identifying the Assyrian of the 7th Gentile kingdom as having two horns like a lamb, which means he will be both a religious and a political leader.

The nations that play a major role in the end time can be found in the prophetic words of Balaam, Num. 24:14-24, ships from the coast of Chittim/Cyprus/Turkey/Gog, will destroy Asshur.

Asshur is further identified by the term Eber, meaning, between two rivers, referring to the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. Only one nation is located between these two rivers, Iraq.

Just because one army will invade another army, does not mean the invader is the antichrist. Have you thought that maybe the DEFENDER is the antichrist, and the Assyrian is attacking the antichrist? Consider that the antichrist is crowned in Israel earlier according to 2 Thess 2. Additionally Daniel 11 says that this evil leader that is associated with the time of the resurrection, takes over the "beautiful land" earlier in his campaigns, and yet is ALARMED by reports from the north, rather than participating in the attack from the north.

To me it seems that Armageddon is the Western Alliance (Rome/Europe) and Israel, against the attacking Assyrian and Gog and the East. Both armies are evil, just like when Assyria attacked Israel, and when Babylon attacked Israel, and when Rome attacked Israel. Always the Israel king was not serving God correctly. The difference about Armageddon is that Israel is predicted to repent as the Gog/Assyrian army is attacking, and Jesus himself intervenes in the war, but Israel's evil leader dies at the resurrection.

[seeker_truth]

Just because one army will invade another army, does not mean the invader is the antichrist. Have you thought that maybe the DEFENDER is the antichrist, and the Assyrian is attacking the antichrist? Consider that the antichrist is crowned in Israel earlier according to 2 Thess 2. Additionally Daniel 11 says that this evil leader that is associated with the time of the resurrection, takes over the "beautiful land" earlier in his campaigns, and yet is ALARMED by reports from the north, rather than participating in the attack from the north.

To me it seems that Armageddon is the Western Alliance (Rome/Europe) and Israel, against the attacking Assyrian and Gog and the East. Both armies are evil, just like when Assyria attacked Israel, and when Babylon attacked Israel, and when Rome attacked Israel. Always the Israel king was not serving God correctly. The difference about Armageddon is that Israel is predicted to repent as the Gog/Assyrian army is attacking, and Jesus himself intervenes in the war, but Israel's evil leader dies at the resurrection.

You're absolutely right. The Antichrist, the Assyrian, is attacked from the north. However, he is attacked by Gog, leader of the Magog forces.

[DurbanDude]

The 7th Gentile Kingdom upon the earth is not a world order, but a kingdom made up of ten Arabic nations, from the Middle East.

Im just going back to this post to try to analyse where you get this "Assyrian antichrist" from the bible. This first sentence I partly agree with, (If we include Jews this Empire). I believe the west and Israel are currently creating a Middle Eastern Union, and in this way a "beast" is arising from the Meditteranean sea, under the watchful eye and influence of Europe (the harlot). This beast will resemble the Macedonian Empire (resemble a leopard- Rev 13), so if the prophecy is correct, this Middle eastern empire will encompass the following countries:

Libya, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Greece, Afghanistan.

These actually are ten nations, the borders which closely resemble the Macedonian Empire (symbolically the leopard of Rev 13/Daniel 7) which flourished briefly under Alexander the Great. 4 of these countries have become Western orientated in the last few years whether by being conquered by the West, or internal turmoil. Syria will predictably do the same in the next few months, Greece may leave the EU soon but like Turkey and Lebanon will possibly keep strong Western ties. Iran is open to invasion if they are the last standing anti-West stalwart.

Scripture tell us that the leader of this kingdom will be an Assyrian, Isa.10:12, which would have him coming forth from northern Iraq..

Now this is where I disagree, Isaiah was written when Assyria was the most powerful nation on earth, and God was about to use the Assyrian army to destroy Israel. The prophecy is most likely about Sennacherib.

Then we have Rev.13:11, identifying the Assyrian of the 7th Gentile kingdom as having two horns like a lamb, which means he will be both a religious and a political leader.

There are many ways to interpret the 7th head, and the two horns. I believe two powerpoints to one empire is simply referring to the end-times power of the old Roman Empire of Daniel 2, ie the two legs of Rome, Rome and Istanbul.

The nations that play a major role in the end time can be found in the prophetic words of Balaam, Num. 24:14-24, ships from the coast of Chittim/Cyprus/Turkey/Gog, will destroy Asshur.

Chittim is normally associated with Rome and the west, not with Turkey/Gog. This verse is saying the west will attack Iraq. Its not even implying that the Assyrian is the antichrist.

Asshur is further identified by the term Eber, meaning, between two rivers, referring to the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. Only one nation is located between these two rivers, Iraq.

I agree that Asshur is Iraq.

To be honest I don't see any evidence in the verses you quoted that the Assyrian is the antichrist, and yet I did quote a few verses showing the Israel/Antichrist connection in earlier posts in this thread. We both agree that there is a ten nation Middle Eastern empire, I believe both biblical prophecy and current events are showing that this will be a western friendly (Israel/Turkish controlled) rather than an eastern friendly (Assyrian controlled) ten nation empire.

The woman (Rome/EU) rides the beast (Middle East Empire)- Rev 17
Rome divides into 2 empires, Rome and Istanbul (Daniel 2) that dominate earth until the second coming.
An empire that dominates earth has two powerpoints (Rome and Istanbul) and sets up the beast empire (Rev 13)
Europe (Rome) sets up the small country that dominates the Middle East. (Daniel 7)
The Middle Easten Empire is centred in a country that ceased to exist and re-appeared to amaze the unbelievers of earth (Israel) (Rev 17)