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Thread: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

  1. #1

    Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Allrighty then, my thread, my rules. I choose not to answer this question and will only post to kick it up a notch. No conclusions from me. Where are the lost ten tribes? and where is Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi?

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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by John 8:32 View Post
    Allrighty then, my thread, my rules. I choose not to answer this question and will only post to kick it up a notch. No conclusions from me. Where are the lost ten tribes? and where is Judah, Benjamin and part of Levi?
    Since both the OT and the NT mention the existence of all of the 12 tribes in the land 'AFTER' the return from Babylonian captivity, and of specifically 11 of the 12 were mentioned as existing specifically by name (except Rebuen) after the return from Babylonian captivity, I don't see that the scriptures tell us they were ever lost. That's more of a urban myth, based on what the scriptures teach otherwise. However, after the diaspora of the 1st century, after scripture was completed; we could say that 'all tribes' were lost...dispersed...spread out into all nations. However, from a NT perspective, does it really matter? Because of the cross, the inheritance of God has been made available to all human beings from every location around the globe; regardless of their geneology.

    Not really sure where you're wanting this thread to go, but I don't see scripturally their ever was 10 lost tribes. Some people from some of the tribes were assimilated by the Assyrians, some by the Babylonians, etc...but all were re-represented in the land after the return from exile; so as a tribe, no "tribe" was lost...until all tribes became irrelevant as the gospel outreach mechanism baton changed hands from Israel preaching the word of God solely, to all people taking the word of God into all the world equally.

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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Since both the OT and the NT mention the existence of all of the 12 tribes in the land 'AFTER' the return from Babylonian captivity, and of specifically 11 of the 12 were mentioned as existing specifically by name (except Rebuen) after the return from Babylonian captivity, I don't see that the scriptures tell us they were ever lost. That's more of a urban myth, based on what the scriptures teach otherwise. However, after the diaspora of the 1st century, after scripture was completed; we could say that 'all tribes' were lost...dispersed...spread out into all nations. However, from a NT perspective, does it really matter? Because of the cross, the inheritance of God has been made available to all human beings from every location around the globe; regardless of their geneology.

    Not really sure where you're wanting this thread to go, but I don't see scripturally their ever was 10 lost tribes. Some people from some of the tribes were assimilated by the Assyrians, some by the Babylonians, etc...but all were re-represented in the land after the return from exile; so as a tribe, no "tribe" was lost...until all tribes became irrelevant as the gospel outreach mechanism baton changed hands from Israel preaching the word of God solely, to all people taking the word of God into all the world equally.
    I absolutely agree. The tribes were all accounted for (obviously excluding individuals) after returning from Babylon and all tribes were subsequently "lost" (displaced/co-mingled) during the Diaspora.

    I differ in that it is of HUGE importance in regard to the Eschaton. Not only is Dispensationalism fallacious, this topic holds the key to understanding the primary source and mechanisms that are driving the agenda and culture-scaping within the New World Order.

  4. #4
    John 8:32 said:

    Where are the lost ten tribes?
    Technically, there are no lost tribes of Israel, insofar as the ten northern tribes of Israel weren't entirely lost to history. In 722 BC, the northern kingdom of Israel fell and its members were taken into captivity into Assyria (2 Kings 18:11), never to return to the land of Israel. They and their descendants were lost to history. But the ten northern tribes in themselves weren't lost to history, because some 200 years before the captivity of the northern kingdom of Israel, when it had first become idolatrous, some members of all ten of the northern tribes of Israel had left the northern kingdom of Israel to become part of the southern kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles 11:16-17), and so by definition they all became Jews.

    That's why later, the Jews living in the first century AD could be referred to as including members from all twelve of the tribes of Israel (Acts 26:7, James 1:1), and why at that time, for example, Anna could be said to be of the northern tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), one of the ten so-called "lost" tribes.

    So the people living on the earth today who are descended genetically from a first century Jew would include members from all twelve of the tribes of Israel. Some of these descendants could know that they're Jews, because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years kept their Jewish identity and didn't intermarry with Gentiles. But others of these descendants could know themselves only as Gentiles, because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years didn't keep their Jewish identity, but eventually abandoned it and intermarried freely with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants today are almost entirely Gentile genetically.

    Similarly, with regard to the members of the northern kingdom of Israel who were lost to history at its captivity, over the past 2,700 years their descendants could have eventually abandoned their Israelite identity and freely intermarried with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants living on the earth today could know themselves only as Gentiles, and be almost entirely Gentile genetically.

    ---

    While God knows which people living on the earth today are descended from an ancient genetic Israelite (someone who was descended from one of the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel from whom the twelve genetic tribes arose: Genesis 49:28), it should be pointed out that some people living on the earth today who are descended from an ancient Israelite aren't considered by God to be spiritual Israelites, because they aren't elect (Romans 9:6-11). Nonelect genetic Israelites aren't even considered by God to be of God, but the children of Satan (John 8:42-47), just as all nonelect people, regardless of whether they're genetic Israelites or genetic Gentiles, are considered by God to be the children of Satan (Matthew 13:38-42).

    Some genetic Israelites are believers, and so are members of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5) and Israel at the same time, just as, for example, the genetic Jew Paul the apostle (Acts 22:3) is a member of the church and Israel at the same time (Romans 11:1). Some non-believing genetic Israelites are still considered by God to be spiritual Israel insofar as they're elect (Romans 11:25,28). All the elect non-believing genetic Israelites who don't become believers before the second coming of Jesus Christ will become believers (and so become members of the church: Ephesians 4:4-6) at the second coming (Romans 11:26), when they see the returned Jesus in person (Zechariah 12:10-14). But even though all elect genetic Israelites will eventually be saved, they're only a remnant of all genetic Israelites (Romans 9:27), most of whom will never be saved, just as most of humanity in general, both Jews and Gentiles, will never be saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).

    ---

    Just as all Jewish believers remain members of the tribe of Israel into which they were born (Romans 11:1b, Acts 4:36b), so all Gentile believers have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b). This is necessary because all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b).

    A Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he's a part of, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

    Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

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    Thumbs up Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    I absolutely agree. The tribes were all accounted for (obviously excluding individuals) after returning from Babylon and all tribes were subsequently "lost" (displaced/co-mingled) during the Diaspora.

    I differ in that it is of HUGE importance in regard to the Eschaton. Not only is Dispensationalism fallacious, this topic holds the key to understanding the primary source and mechanisms that are driving the agenda and culture-scaping within the New World Order.
    Boy, you've got that right, when you said:" This topic holds the key to understanding the primary source and mechanisms that are driving the agenda and culture-scaping within the New World Order "! Now, let's think about that for a moment... why don't we?

    The Jews [ or, The House Of Judah ] were scattered within Babylon... and, we now know that they returned to: " The Promised Land " - from Europe. Case in point, this recent European Union Poster....



    And, of course, Europe is precisely where Those Concentration Camps were - just like Jeremiah 16:16 prophesied that they would be... and, The NAZI's were those long prophesied: " Hunters " - being mentioned in the scriptures! And since, this prophecy has ' A Dual Fulfillment For The House Of Israel ' as well, if you can find That Next Set Of Extermination Camps - then you're likely looking at the right spot....

    Hmmm..... Now, where I did I hear about something like that? Ah, yes... Those FEMA Camps in The United States of America! I'm sure you've seen some of them, somewhere... in fact, they all look something like this one!



    But, of course, that's just ' Circumstantial Evidence '... what we need here, are some scriptural proofs to properly substantiate it! But, rather than re-inventing the wheel, why not just examine The Scriptural Research Already Compiled... but, truthfully, where might we find it?

    I've got an idea. Why don't we just search for: America In Prophecy? After all, it seems simple enough to me... and, what do we find?




    But, hey, whatever.... The rest is up to you.

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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Well, he mentioned FEMA. Now the black helicopters are going to take this thread away...
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Joseph inherited the name "Isreal". He had two sons, Ephriam and Manassah. The younger one was to rise to power first. It is prophesied that a time would come when the sun would not set on his kingdom. Great Britan is the only nation that has ever existed that can uphold this prophecy. Many beleive that one of the thrones that is in Great Britan is the very throne of king David.
    These nations "lost" their identity because they stopped observing the Lord's sabbaths as it is to this very day.

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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Yes, and the word "British" is actually "Brit Ish", "Man of the covenant"!

    And we all know that the British people are closely related to the people of Denmark. And they are called "Danish", i.e. "man of Dan"!. They're from the tribe of Dan!


    OMG OMG OMG
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by blue View Post
    Joseph inherited the name "Isreal". He had two sons, Ephriam and Manassah. The younger one was to rise to power first. It is prophesied that a time would come when the sun would not set on his kingdom. Great Britan is the only nation that has ever existed that can uphold this prophecy. Many beleive that one of the thrones that is in Great Britan is the very throne of king David.
    These nations "lost" their identity because they stopped observing the Lord's sabbaths as it is to this very day.
    Not if the prophecy is future and about the actual real nation of people consisting of "Joseph"....




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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    I'd actually like to see the verse containing this prophecy.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I'd actually like to see the verse containing this prophecy.
    Yea, that would help...




  12. #12

    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    Yes, and the word "British" is actually "Brit Ish", "Man of the covenant"!

    And we all know that the British people are closely related to the people of Denmark. And they are called "Danish", i.e. "man of Dan"!. They're from the tribe of Dan!


    OMG OMG OMG
    If no one here has seen it yet, it is at this point I would introduce you to TV Tropes. Link absolutely related.

  13. #13

    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    I'd actually like to see the verse containing this prophecy.
    Did God deal with the house of Israel and the house of Judah in the same manner? For instance God put the house of Israel away and gave her a bill of divorce. Did he ever give the house of Judah a bill of divorce? When Herod was king in Judah was the house of Judea still in a married covenant relationship with the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob? How about? Hosea 1:4,6 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little [while], and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel. And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And [God] said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. Amos 9:8,9 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD [are] upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, (Gentiles) like as [corn] is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. Back to Hosea. 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
    If they were destroyed yet not utterly destroyed just what was destroyed? Has there been a period in history from say King David/Solomon and especially the last couple thousand years when the men of the earth were not conscious of the Jews those of the house of Judah among them? What was/is it about the Jews that makes the nations conscious of them? How do we know they are Jews? Yet this was said.

    Amos 3:1,2 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family (The house of Israel and the house of Judah) which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Known as in a marriage relationship.

    Deut. 32:26 a prophesy: I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:

    Which of the two did the memory of cease from among men?

    Is not the OP a legitimate question?

    For others than Fenris.

    Jesus of the house of Judah came unto his own and his own received him not.

    And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock, [and] one shepherd. Compare to 2 sticks story in Ezek 37
    What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
    And he said, A certain man had two sons: and the younger of them said to the father, Father, give me the portion of the substance falling to [me], and he divided to them the living. And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

  14. #14

    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Yes, and the word "British" is actually "Brit Ish", "Man of the covenant"!

    And we all know that the British people are closely related to the people of Denmark. And they are called "Danish", i.e. "man of Dan"!. They're from the tribe of Dan!


    OMG OMG OMG
    Hello Fenris, I know very little Hebrew, I thank you for your Comments on Ish – man, I think ish or man in Hebrew is a clue to who modern day Israel is.
    There are the English, The Scottish, and the Irish, I think they would all be British.

    The Danish, the Finish, the Swedish and the France are Frankish (I think is Ruben) even the Spanish, there are more I just don’t remember. The only one that don’t fit is the Turkish, and that is Esau (Harry) or Edom (Red), Israel’s brother.

  15. #15

    Re: Where Is Modern Day Israel and Modern Day Judah

    Fenris was being facetious. Hence the 'OMG OMG OMG' at the end.

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