Law Of Christ V Law Of Moses?

[keck553]

I was thinking in terms of...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

I don't think the fat lady has sung in Acts 1:1

Well, that's another age (dispensation??). I thought we were still in this one.

[Firstfruits]

Do you believe that Jesus finished everything? Or did He just finish the work given Him for that time?

Jesus fulfilled all that God required of him regarding the establishment of salvation.

Jn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Firstfruits

[John 8:32]

Reason around what exactly? Are you so sure TEN are so "plainly" being shown? Did you count them?

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

He asked which commandments to keep and this is Jesus' answer:


1: Thou shalt do no murder

2: Thou shalt not commit adultery

3: Thou shalt not steal

4: Thou shalt not bear false witness

5: Honour thy father and thy mother

6: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

SIX commandments, not ten.


Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Well then, having other gods before God, having idols, taking God's name in vain and profaning His Sabbath must be OK then? I just don't think so. He was pointing out to this man to whom He was offering a discipleship, that He must put obedience to the commandments above all that he possessed. Notice that after Christ named some of the commandments...

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

You think this guy didn't know that Christ was talking about the ten commandments as a whole?

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

[ewq1938]

Well then, having other gods before God, having idols, taking God's name in vain and profaning His Sabbath must be OK then?

That's all covered morally by the law of Christ. The point is you were wrong that the ten commandments were represented there because Christ only listed 6 of the 10 when asked which commandments needed to be obeyed. If Christ wanted the saturday sabbath to be kept, he could have said it as the 7th one to obey, but he left it out on purpose.

You think this guy didn't know that Christ was talking about the ten commandments as a whole?

Christ did not speak of all ten, and the man most likely understood that. The scriptures clearly list Christ naming 6 not 10.

[Kahtar]

That's all covered morally by the law of Christ. The point is you were wrong that the ten commandments were represented there because Christ only listed 6 of the 10 when asked which commandments needed to be obeyed. If Christ wanted the saturday sabbath to be kept, he could have said it as the 7th one to obey, but he left it out on purpose.

He also left out
You shall have no other gods beside me
You shall not make or worship idols
You shall not take My Name in vain
So, by your logic, 'if Christ wanted them kept, He could have said it as the 8th, 9th, and tenth, but he left them out on purpose', meaning of course that we don't have to obey them. Because He left them out of this list, its now okay to worship any god we want, bow ourselves down to stones and blocks of wood, and commit sin 'in the Name of Jesus'.
For some reason, I don't believe you.

[Firstfruits]

Well then, having other gods before God, having idols, taking God's name in vain and profaning His Sabbath must be OK then? I just don't think so. He was pointing out to this man to whom He was offering a discipleship, that He must put obedience to the commandments above all that he possessed. Notice that after Christ named some of the commandments...

Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

You think this guy didn't know that Christ was talking about the ten commandments as a whole?

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

It is written that the new covenant did not start until Jesus died.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Just as Christ is dead to the law so are those that are dead in Christ.

Firstfruits

[John 8:32]

He also left out
You shall have no other gods beside me
You shall not make or worship idols
You shall not take My Name in vain
So, by your logic, 'if Christ wanted them kept, He could have said it as the 8th, 9th, and tenth, but he left them out on purpose', meaning of course that we don't have to obey them. Because He left them out of this list, its now okay to worship any god we want, bow ourselves down to stones and blocks of wood, and commit sin 'in the Name of Jesus'.
For some reason, I don't believe you.

You know, it is interesting, the anti-law sentiment only flares up over the fourth commandment doesn't it? Most do not seem to have any problem with the others, but that one sticks in the craw.

[Firstfruits]

He also left out
You shall have no other gods beside me
You shall not make or worship idols
You shall not take My Name in vain
So, by your logic, 'if Christ wanted them kept, He could have said it as the 8th, 9th, and tenth, but he left them out on purpose', meaning of course that we don't have to obey them. Because He left them out of this list, its now okay to worship any god we want, bow ourselves down to stones and blocks of wood, and commit sin 'in the Name of Jesus'.
For some reason, I don't believe you.

Actually although it is not okay to worship any god we want or steal, but we are free from the law.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Firstfruits

[John 8:32]

It is written that the new covenant did not start until Jesus died.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Just as Christ is dead to the law so are those that are dead in Christ.

Firstfruits

Your logic is very flawed here...

If you really believe that Heb 9:17 should be applied the way you think it should, consider this...

The first covenant would not be in effect until someone died. Christ died so now the first covenant is in effect. For the second covenant to be in effect, someone must die again (the second time) for the covenant to take effect. Christ is not going to die again.

Your logic doesn't work here. This is the danger of cherry picking verses (called proof texting) to prove your point of view.

[Firstfruits]

Your logic is very flawed here...

If you really believe that Heb 9:17 should be applied the way you think it should, consider this...

The first covenant would not be in effect until someone died. Christ died so now the first covenant is in effect. For the second covenant to be in effect, someone must die again (the second time) for the covenant to take effect. Christ is not going to die again.

Your logic doesn't work here. This is the danger of cherry picking verses (called proof texting) to prove your point of view.

Jesus is the new covenant, which did not start until Jesus died, fulfilling all that God sent Jesus to do.

Firstfruits

[Kahtar]

You know, it is interesting, the anti-law sentiment only flares up over the fourth commandment doesn't it? Most do not seem to have any problem with the others, but that one sticks in the craw.

Yep, it is interesting.

Actually although it is not okay to worship any god we want or steal, but we are free from the law.
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Firstfruits

It's kinda like when I was growing up, my momma gave me a law that said 'You WILL not play with matches, or else!' I of course learned the lesson the hard way, with the 'or else'. Nevertheless, I learned to obey that law. Now, I'm no longer under my mother's law, but guess what? I still don't play with matches. I still obey that law even though I'm not under it. Why? Because it's the right thing to do.
Same goes with stealing, lying, worshipping wood, etc. Those laws are in my heart. They're in yours too, if the Holy Spirit is in you.

[John 8:32]

Jesus is the new covenant, which did not start until Jesus died, fulfilling all that God sent Jesus to do.

Firstfruits

But you said a testament cannot be in effect until the testator dies, how many times has Christ died? Once, how many testaments can be in effect? One! How many testaments are there? Two! So, again, by your logic, the second (New) testament is not in force yet until Christ dies again. That dog don't hunt.

[Firstfruits]

Yep, it is interesting.
It's kinda like when I was growing up, my momma gave me a law that said 'You WILL not play with matches, or else!' I of course learned the lesson the hard way, with the 'or else'. Nevertheless, I learned to obey that law. Now, I'm no longer under my mother's law, but guess what? I still don't play with matches. I still obey that law even though I'm not under it. Why? Because it's the right thing to do.
Same goes with stealing, lying, worshipping wood, etc. Those laws are in my heart. They're in yours too, if the Holy Spirit is in you.

When someone says that they are not under the law the question are asked if it is OK to kill , steal, serve other gods ect. to which that answer is no.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

We are free from obeying the works of the flesh.

Firstfruits

[John 8:32]

When someone says that they are not under the law the question are asked if it is OK to kill , steal, serve other gods ect. to which that answer is no.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

We are free from obeying the works of the flesh.

Firstfruits

But if they do, it is not a sin and it is fine to do that because...

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

If there is no law, there is no sin. The law simply defines what good and evil is, does that make you think of a tree and a very bad choice that was made?

[Firstfruits]

But if they do, it is not a sin and it is fine to do that because...

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

If there is no law, there is no sin. The law simply defines what good and evil is, does that make you think of a tree and a very bad choice that was made?

If they do it then they are fulfilling the works of the flesh, and they are therefore not following the Spirit.

Firstfruits