HEALING

[Sig Sauer]

What is different about today, then when the apostiles walked on this earth?
I read accounts where their shadows alone would heal the sick people, but now you hear little or nothing of any type of healing.
Was this healing power of God, not meant for our time? Did it only belong to the Apostiles?
Has anyone been witness to any type of healing?
Thank you.

[MaryFreeman]

What is different about today, then when the apostiles walked on this earth?
I read accounts where their shadows alone would heal the sick people, but now you hear little or nothing of any type of healing.
Was this healing power of God, not meant for our time? Did it only belong to the Apostiles?
Has anyone been witness to any type of healing?
Thank you.

I for one have been witness to some healings.... But healing isn't found as much in America as it is in third world countries.... The sad fact of it is that people believe what people believe.... I am reminded of the passage where Jesus went to His own country.... They didn't believe in Him and thus He was UNABLE to do any great work there.... As a matter of fact.... They were absolutely offended at Him.... And He marveled at their unbelief.... But as there is no change or shadow of turning in our Savior.... I can answer confidently that yes healing is relevant for today....

[Desperaux]

What is different about today, then when the apostiles walked on this earth?
I read accounts where their shadows alone would heal the sick people, but now you hear little or nothing of any type of healing.
Was this healing power of God, not meant for our time? Did it only belong to the Apostiles?
Has anyone been witness to any type of healing?
Thank you.

We are promised by Jesus Himself that believers will be able to heal the sick and cast out demons on a regular basis, and that is how we are to be known. The same things that Jesus and His disciples did way back in the beginning have not ceased...in fact, Jesus says that we will do greater things than He did!

Mark 16:17-18
These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages.[e] 18 They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”

John 14:12
“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.


What has abated is true belief, and the teaching about the work of Holy Spirit in the believer. We need to make sure that we are being fed by Spirit-filled, Spirit-led, Bible-believing pastors and teachers, who do not deny or restrain Holy Spirit from working in His people.

[Walls]

What is different about today, then when the apostiles walked on this earth?
I read accounts where their shadows alone would heal the sick people, but now you hear little or nothing of any type of healing.
Was this healing power of God, not meant for our time? Did it only belong to the Apostiles?
Has anyone been witness to any type of healing?
Thank you.

In the scriptures that concern miracles, we would do well to note two words. One is "signs" and the other is "taste".

Sign
In Mark 16:17-18 our Lord Jesus set the pace for the future of the gospel age; "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Notice that these signs did follow the outpouring of the gospel (Act.2:43, 5:12, 14:3 etc.). What other evidence do we have of signs? It seems that whenever God started a new thing, signs accompanied the start of it.
• As God started Israel on their quest for the Good Land, He “… brought them out, after that he had showed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.”
• When the age of Law had failed and our Lord Jesus came Peter says; “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know”
• And as the disciples of the gospel spread abroad in all lands Luke reports concerning Paul and Barnabas in Acts; “Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.”

But in all three cases the miracles started to wane towards the end. Israel return to every day life, and by the time of John Baptist the Land is full of sick, diseased and demon possessed. At the end of our Lord Jesus’ ministry He cannot do many miracles in Galilee (Matt.13:58). Paul, who raised the dead, cannot heal Timothy’s stomach ailment (1st Tim.5:23). Why?

Because they are just that – signs. They are there not to be our portion for relief in this age, but to point at the work of God. The sick of today all pray for healing. This is legitimate. But the Christians at large seek these things for false reasons. They actually want these things for pleasant experience. They seek sensation. They seek release from their bad diets and mismanagement of their money. They seek a solution to their excesses. They seek “signs”. But our Lord said of them; “… An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, …” (Matt.12:39; Lk.11:29). We must not be surprised at the lack of signs today. The gospel is well on the way. It needs not “signs” to prove itself. It needs the holy lives of it proponents, not a generation who seek signs. I predict that the more we seek signs the less we will see them. “… there shall no sign be given to it!”

Taste
In Hebrews 6:4-6 the author, in giving a dire warning, lets a piece of information slip. He says; “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away…” Here he speaks of Jews who had become Christians who think that they can sin wantonly and keep coming back and slaughtering a lamb like they did in the Old Testament. He says that Christians “have tasted … the powers of the age to come, …” The word “world" in the KJV is actually correctly rendered “age.” This verse tells us that the early Church had only “tasted” the things of the future age. That is, there had been healings, demon exorcism and raising the dead among them, but this was just a foretaste of the Millennial Reign of Christ. The signs and wonders that the early disciples did are not actually made for this age, the gospel age. They will be in full effect in the next age, after Jesus has returned.

Am I against signs and miracles? No, I love them as much as the next Christian. I love when God manifests His power. I too have ailments and other problems that I would love to have relief from. But I realize that these occurrences are few and far between. I too have seen more of them in 3rd world countries. But I still believe what scripture says. They are just pointers to God’s gospel. They will be in abundance only in the next age.

Finally, a word of warning. Besides being accused by the Lord of unfaithfulness for seeking signs, there are two other dreadful dangers in them.
1. Notice in all three of the above cases of God giving signs that the signs did not improve the spirituality of the witness. Israel saw all those signs yet most men of adult age died in the wilderness because of their evil and unfaithfulness. All the signs done by our Lord Jesus could not stop Judas and the Pharisees from their grisly task. And on Pentecost there were basically only about 120 faithful Christians in Jerusalem. The signs of the Apostles did not save them from being hounded, chased and killed. Despite the signs, you have moral breakdown in the Church, like Ananias and Saphira and all the goings on in Corinth. Signs will not improve your Christian life!
2. 2nd Thessalonians 2:8-10 tells us; “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” Satan can also do signs and wonders. We saw this in Egypt. It is given to him to give life to an idol one day. If a Christian is fixated on signs, sooner or later he/she will follow the enemy.

[the rookie]

What is different about today, then when the apostiles walked on this earth?
I read accounts where their shadows alone would heal the sick people, but now you hear little or nothing of any type of healing.
Was this healing power of God, not meant for our time? Did it only belong to the Apostiles?
Has anyone been witness to any type of healing?
Thank you.

There's a reason that Jude exhorted his audience to "contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" - this means more than doctrine. The apostolic prayers of Paul the apostle, for example, contain much "content" for the believer to ask the Father for power to heal, prophesy, and see the power of the Holy Spirit break in to their region. In other words, in the day of the apostles themselves one could ask the question, "What's different about today versus a few years / decades ago?" The Jerusalem revival lasted a few years - then we see issues of internal conflict and external persecution begin to arise, and then it was over. You don't read about Peter walking in that kind of power every day, all the days of his life. We read about the high point, which launched the little movement in a very intense way.

Ephesus lasted for 2 1/2 years - during which the gospel "grew mighty and prevailed in Ephesus" knit to "unusual signs". But Luke doesn't tell us about "unusual signs" any more related to Paul's ministry. This is also true of moves of God throughout history - the incredible conviction of sin that marked the 1st and 2nd Great Awakenings was a "burst" of a few years; the same was true in Wales at the turn of the 20th century, as well as the incredible testimonies of Azuza Street.

Leonard Ravenhill had much to say on this subject ("Why Revival Tarries") on the relationship between revival, prayer, holiness, and the power of God in the lives of ordinary believers; Arthur Wallis ("In the Day of Thy Power") also has some helpful insights on this subject.

The biggest point, however, is the one made by the Apostle James in his epistle - "Elijah was a man with a nature like ours", subject to the same frailties, weaknesses, and difficulties - and having to submit to the same processes in humility. James was saying, in essence, "Hey! There's no difference between us and you, and us and Elijah, the prophet that moved n the greatest level of power in the OT". He demystified the apostles, in the same manner Peter and Mark did in Mark's Gospel. According to James, there is no difference (related to our frame and God's invitation to move in the power of the Holy Spirit); according to Ravenhill, the difference is character (related to holiness), prayer life, and ability to persevere.

I think both are right

[John 8:32]

There is a sequence of events...

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Call on the elders, an elder is ordained...

Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Pray over the sick and anoint them with oil, and the prayer of faith shall save the sick. How many today have faith in God? Don't most have faith in the medical profession? "Well, we have done all we can do, it is up to God now." Shouldn't it have been up to God in the first place? Not that I think one should not seek the medical professional's help, of course one should. Problem is people seek the doctor first and as an after thought, "Hey, maybe I ought to pray... Now I lay me down to ... wait that's not it."

Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Is healing in this life guaranteed? If any man had faith wouldn't it be the Apostle Paul?

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

This is why we pray, "Thy will be done" because we look at things differently than God. We have a cold and are looking at the next 24 hours, God is looking forward into eternity.

[Desperaux]

You cannot use Paul as a reason to believe and teach that God wants us sick. He doesn't. Paul had the ability to gain his own healing. God never places illness on anyone. Paul's thorn was not a sickness.

[John 8:32]

You cannot use Paul as a reason to believe and teach that God wants us sick. He doesn't. Paul had the ability to gain his own healing. God never places illness on anyone. Paul's thorn was not a sickness.

Did you even read what I posted? God does not always heal, it is His choice based on what is best for our eternity, not tomorrow.

3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

God never places illness on anyone.

Act 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

[John 8:32]

A couple more...

Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

2Ch 21:15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.

[MaryFreeman]

Did you even read what I posted? God does not always heal, it is His choice based on what is best for our eternity, not tomorrow.

3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Um.... You say something about God not always healing and then post a verse that conveys the exact opposite? Did you post the verse you were thinking of? Just wondering.... I thought this might be a typo....

Act 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

This isn't a sickness and Herod was NOT a Christian

1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

The cause was that they were partaking of the Lords Supper (communion) to fill their bellies.... They were partaking in an unworthy manner.... And nowhere in this verse does it say God caused them to be weak and sickly or to die....

Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

And then He healed him.... Who's side are you on anyways ?

[MaryFreeman]

A couple more...

Num 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Yes but why? And again.... It's snakes.... I doubt highly you can look a sick person who happens to be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit.... Someone who is walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.... In the eye and have the audacity to accuse him or her of being like the Israelites in the desert....

2Ch 21:15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.

2Ch 21:9-11 LITV
(9) And Jehoram passed over with his chiefs, and all the chariots with him; and it happened that he rose up by night and struck the Edomites who were coming all around him; and the commanders of the chariots.
(10) And Edom revolted from under the hand of Judah to this day. Then Libnah revolted at that time from under his hand, because he had forsaken Jehovah, the God of his fathers.
(11) Also, he had made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the people of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and led astray Judah.

Again.... Context context context.... God will not strike a faithful servant with an illness.... It is His will that we prosper.... Even as our souls prosper....


Jer 29:11-13 LITV
(11) For I know the purposes which I am planning for you, says Jehovah; purposes of peace, and not for evil; to give you posterity and a hope.
(12) Then you shall call on Me, and you shall go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
(13) And you shall seek and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

[Desperaux]

Did you even read what I posted? God does not always heal, it is His choice based on what is best for our eternity, not tomorrow.

3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.



Act 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

God says He heals all our diseases. If a person isn't healed, it is not God's fault. We have the ability to appropriate our healing in our born again spirits where all heavenly blessings, gifts and provision are.

[the rookie]

Seems like there's a lot of reacting, and little reading within this thread. There are no "sides" here - this isn't really a black and white issue as it relates to the OP. As a few have said - there are complex biblical dynamics related to divine healing that aren't so clear cut. It's not just a matter of "God heals" or "He doesn't" - and that's not really even the point of the OP's question, when you get down to it.

[MaryFreeman]

Seems like there's a lot of reacting, and little reading within this thread. There are no "sides" here - this isn't really a black and white issue as it relates to the OP. As a few have said - there are complex biblical dynamics related to divine healing that aren't so clear cut. It's not just a matter of "God heals" or "He doesn't" - and that's not really even the point of the OP's question, when you get down to it.

Oh I am so sorry .... I thought I was injecting a little humor .... I appologize....

[the rookie]

Oh I am so sorry .... I thought I was injecting a little humor .... I appologize....

I took it that way, and know your heart a little. But I also know message boards and know that things go funny in a hurry because of the limitations of this medium