HEALING

[BroRog]

I was perfectly fine with my understanding of these scriptures once also. Then turmoil as God began to show me His truth and I wanted to HOLD TO, what I was fine with.

I defended my position against God Himself... until I finally submitted.

I'm not defending my position against God; I'm defending my position of the scriptures in opposition to yours. I am not in turmoil, mad, angry, or unhappy, or anything like that. I'm perfectly okay with my interpretation, which I believe to be the right interpretation and for the reasons I already gave.

You are just defending your position against me and others... try defending your position against God. Submission will mean your surrender and God will open your eyes.

How do you know I haven't already surrendered to God? Isn't it presumptuous for you to suggest otherwise?

You may speak in different "kinds of tongues", who knows.

I doubt that. I could happen. But it hasn't happened yet. And I see no reason for it to happen. Everyone in my church speaks English.

What will your church think then?

It depends on whether it was actually the Holy Spirit or not. Hypothetically, if a non-English speaking Korean were to venture into our church, and I began to speak to him in Korean, which is a language I don't know how to speak, and if somehow this person was able to convey what I said, I'm sure that many in my church would praise God.

But you see, all of us speak English. We are not suffering from a limitation of language. Besides, I'm sure the Lord has Korean servants in our city who hold services in Korean where Korean folks might come to hear the gospel in their own language. The gift of tongues isn't necessary; it isn't required. The Holy Spirit is doing other things in our church such as opening hearts and minds to the truth, prompting us to take steps to love each other and provide for each other's needs, giving us teachers to teach us from the Bible, providing an atmosphere in which the truth is heard and accepted and loved and appreciated and encouraged.

In the churches I was in, if a person said they had begun to pray in tongues while they prayed privately, they were labeled as "mad" and if they didn't stop... the church literally pressured them until they stopped, or they left. Those leaving, GOOD RIDDANCE... I praise God for His truth and freedom from that.

Okay. Was the tongue necessary? Was this a church in which everyone spoke in English? How did you know they were speaking in tongues and not simply making sounds?

BroRog, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are FULLY functional and active in the Body of Christ today.

I hope so.

The gift of different "kinds of tongues" is exactly as we read in the scriptures.

I agree with that. We disagree on what that means.

Both kinds that are clearly explained in scripture, are active today as well.

What do you mean by "both"? Where do you get "both" from "kinds"? The word "kinds" simply implies more than one. It might mean two, or it might be 100. Do you see how you are spinning the text a certain way?

Some speak in a language that only God understands and when God wants man to be edified by this language, then the gift of interpretation of tongues is also manifested by the Holy Spirit.

I don't agree with that, as I said. What you suggest is absurd.

The kind of tongues of Acts is also active.

Maybe. I'm not saying I know for sure. But I have never witnessed it. And don't assume I haven't attended a Pentecostal church for a couple of years.

I have not personally experienced this kind of tongues but I know two people who have.

Okay, as I say, it could happen.

On mission trips and members of the group were of different nationalities as they did their work in Africa. An African who was a pastor there and was their linkup had prayer dedication of their safe arrival and during that prayer, my friend heard this man praying in her native language. She questioned the pastor after the prayer, how he learned her native language and he was confused. This was when God's gift of this "kind" of tongues was realized as each person had heard the pastor praying in "their" native language and the whole time, he was praying in his native language.

Okay. Your friend had an Acts two experience. You still have no evidence of someone praying to God in a language that only God knows. And you will never find evidence of this.

Different "kinds of tongues"... let's just allow God's will be DONE, by the leading of and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'm willing to let God's will be done. I'm not willing to cave into pressure when it comes to the correct interpretation of the scriptures. I'm not convinced that you understand what Paul wrote.

[Slug1]

I'm willing to let God's will be done. I'm not willing to cave into pressure when it comes to the correct interpretation of the scriptures. I'm not convinced that you understand what Paul wrote.

As for different "kinds of tongues", in the Corinthian chapters, the "kind" Paul writes about is not understood by man at all and ONLY God understands this kind. Also, he writea "a" tongue... this "kind" of tongues is a singular language, that ONLY God understands. Here is the scripture:

1 Cor 14:² For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

Without any interpretation, only the person manifesting this kind of tongues is edified. Here is the scripture:

v⁴ He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

When interpretation is God's will and the Holy Spirit empowers another with the gift of interpretation, then all who are listening are also edified.

We both agree 100% of another "kind" of tongues being experienced in the Acts 2 chapter. This form fulfills 1 Cor 12:10 as there being different "kinds of tongues".

You say there can be 100's... well, the scriptures point out these two kinds for sure.

[BroRog]

As for different "kinds of tongues", in the Corinthian chapters, the "kind" Paul writes about is not understood by man at all and ONLY God understands this kind. Also, he writea "a" tongue... this "kind" of tongues is a singular language, that ONLY God understands. Here is the scripture:

1 Cor 14:² For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

When he says "no one understands" he is excepting the speaker. Obviously the speaker understands what he is saying. Just a few verses down he explains:

16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit [only], how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks , since he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.

The person in verse 2, the one speaking in his spirit, is the same person in verse 16 who is giving thanks in his spirit. The person speaking in his spirit knows that he is giving thanks, only other people can't understand what is being said. This flies in the face of the Charismatic teachers who say that even the person speaking in tongues doesn't know what he says. Well, Paul just said he does. True authentic tongues is understood by the person speaking. It is not a heavenly language only God understands. It is not a prayer language. It is a language that other people who speak the language understands. And even if no one in the congregation understands, the person speaking knows that he intended to give thanksgiving to God.

We need to bring all the verses to the table.

Without any interpretation, only the person manifesting this kind of tongues is edified. Here is the scripture:

v⁴ He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

When interpretation is God's will and the Holy Spirit empowers another with the gift of interpretation, then all who are listening are also edified.

You say that you want to review the scriptures but the fact is, you won't find a scripture that makes the point you want to make. You already know what you want to believe; you have been handed a belief system to defend; and you have been told what verses to use during your apology. You already know what you think is true; you simply make the verses say it. There is nothing in the text where Paul says that someone with the gift of interpretations is required to interpret the gift of tongues. He doesn't say it explicitly and he doesn't even imply it.

The way you explain it, you even appear to set God against the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wants to give the congregation a message but "oh well . . ." I guess if God doesn't allow it, then the message will just have to remain undelivered. The Holy Spirit wanted to say something through a faithful tongue talker, but God wouldn't allow it. The Holy Spirit gives someone a message to deliver but God thwarts the Holy Spirit's efforts. What a shame God and the Holy Spirit can't get along with each other.

We both agree 100% of another "kind" of tongues being experienced in the Acts 2 chapter. This form fulfills 1 Cor 12:10 as there being different "kinds of tongues".

You say there can be 100's... well, the scriptures point out these two kinds for sure.

Obviously when Paul says there are many kinds of tongues he isn't saying there are many different kinds of the gift of tongues. He isn't suggesting, as you do, that there is one gift of tongues for personal use and another gift of tongues for public use. He says that the gifts are given to be used to build up the body of Christ, which is a public, communal activity. There is only a gift of tongues for public use. What he means by "kinds" is to say that each gift is personalized to a particular person with a particular mission.

In a sense there are many "kinds" of Apostles. Paul refers to himself as the Apostle to the Gentiles, and Peter as the Apostle to the circumcision. The gift of apostleship wasn't of a different kind. Each man was faithfully teaching what Jesus taught with a high degree of fidelity under the inspiration of God. It was the same kind of thing in that sense. But each man had a different sphere of influence, teaching in a different area of the world from each other. The idea was to spread the gospel to everyone. But not everyone responded to Peter and not everyone responded to Paul. Some responded better to Apollos, and others responded better to Barnabas.

Likewise with the gift of tongues. The gift of tongues is the same no matter who uses it and for what purpose. But each person whom the Holy Spirit uses in this way is speaking into a different crowd of people, into a different historical context, dealing with different issues, and cultures, and expectations. To the extent that there are different kinds of people, living in different areas of the world, ministering to different groups of people, to that extent there are different kinds of tongues. But they are all public, they are all languages that can be understood, and they are all intended to bless and encourage and educate and give moral training to those in the church. There is no such thing as private tongues or personal tongues or prayer tongues. The gifts aren't given to people; they are given to the church.