HEALING

[John 8:32]

Um.... You say something about God not always healing and then post a verse that conveys the exact opposite? Did you post the verse you were thinking of? Just wondering.... I thought this might be a typo....

Verse says wish you to be in health, doesn't say you always will be. We suffer trials in this life for the perfecting of the saints, sometime the trials are health issues. After all, if God healed every single time, no one would ever die.

This isn't a sickness and Herod was NOT a Christian

A parasitic infestation, a health issue. In response to the quote...

God never places illness on anyone.

[QUOTE]The cause was that they were partaking of the Lords Supper (communion) to fill their bellies.... They were partaking in an unworthy manner.... And nowhere in this verse does it say God caused them to be weak and sickly or to die....[\QUOTE]

Do you suppose that these are unrelated events? That there is no cause and effect? God is never involved?

And then He healed him.... Who's side are you on anyways ?

Yes He healed the blind man, but point is the blind man was blind so that God's great power could be displayed. Jesus plainly says there was no sin involved, this blindness did not come about by something the man or his parents did.

[MaryFreeman]

Verse says wish you to be in health, doesn't say you always will be. We suffer trials in this life for the perfecting of the saints, sometime the trials are health issues. After all, if God healed every single time, no one would ever die.

I can see how you could view things this way.... But first John says " Beloved, in regard to all things, I pray for you to prosper and to be in health, as your soul prospers." He doesn't just wish it.... He prays for it.... And the reason he said this is to underscore just how important it is for the believer to walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh.... Because as Paul said:

Rom 8:10-13 LITV
(10) But if Christ is in you, the body indeed is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(11) But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling of His Spirit in you.
(12) So, then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to flesh,
(13) for if you live according to flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.

And verse 13 emphasizes what I am trying to say to you.... Though I am so mediocre at it.... The verses you quoted are of people who were living according to the flesh.... They were not Spirit minded God guided people.... There was a reason for God to bring those things upon them.... But He is not a God who will bring things on one who is a doer of the Word.... Because verse 11 says MORTAL

A parasitic infestation, a health issue. In response to the quote...

Please see above....

Do you suppose that these are unrelated events? That there is no cause and effect? God is never involved?

I was just trying to point out the cause and effect of these events dear one.... And God doesn't always have to be involved.... And neither does satan.... Reminds me of what my mother used to say.... "Sooner or later you are going to start spanking yourself!"

Yes He healed the blind man, but point is the blind man was blind so that God's great power could be displayed. Jesus plainly says there was no sin involved, this blindness did not come about by something the man or his parents did.

Couple this thought with the following scripture....

Rom 8:28 LITV
(28) But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;

What satan obviously meant for evil in the blind mans life.... God used for the good of the blind man.... And through that blind man many others were shown the power of the Living God.... But God didn't strike the man blind.... He didn't do anything to deserve it.... As Jesus so plainly states.... But Jesus took the opportunity to bring something good about....

[John 8:32]

I can see how you could view things this way.... But first John says " Beloved, in regard to all things, I pray for you to prosper and to be in health, as your soul prospers." He doesn't just wish it.... He prays for it.... And the reason he said this is to underscore just how important it is for the believer to walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh.... Because as Paul said:

Rom 8:10-13 LITV
(10) But if Christ is in you, the body indeed is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(11) But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling of His Spirit in you.
(12) So, then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to flesh,
(13) for if you live according to flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the practices of the body, you will live.

And verse 13 emphasizes what I am trying to say to you.... Though I am so mediocre at it.... The verses you quoted are of people who were living according to the flesh.... They were not Spirit minded God guided people.... There was a reason for God to bring those things upon them.... But He is not a God who will bring things on one who is a doer of the Word.... Because verse 11 says MORTAL




Please see above.... I was just trying to point out the cause and effect of these events dear one.... And God doesn't always have to be involved.... And neither does satan.... Reminds me of what my mother used to say.... "Sooner or later you are going to start spanking yourself!"
Couple this thought with the following scripture....

Rom 8:28 LITV
(28) But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;

What satan obviously meant for evil in the blind mans life.... God used for the good of the blind man.... And through that blind man many others were shown the power of the Living God.... But God didn't strike the man blind.... He didn't do anything to deserve it.... As Jesus so plainly states.... But Jesus took the opportunity to bring something good about....

Have you ever been sick? Been healed every time? Will live in the flesh forever?

[MaryFreeman]

Have you ever been sick?

Not often....

Been healed every time?

No.... But of course I wasn't always right with the Lord....

Will live in the flesh forever?

I will live in this body.... If the Rapture doesn't happen beforehand.... This body will die.... But then it will be resurrected.... So.... Yes.... I will live in this mortal body (which will be made immortal) forever....

[John 8:32]

I will live in this body.... If the Rapture doesn't happen beforehand.... This body will die.... But then it will be resurrected.... So.... Yes.... I will live in this mortal body (which will be made immortal) forever....

You sure of that? I am not. I am not sure what body we will have...

1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

[keck553]

We are promised by Jesus Himself that believers will be able to heal the sick and cast out demons on a regular basis, and that is how we are to be known. The same things that Jesus and His disciples did way back in the beginning have not ceased...in fact, Jesus says that we will do greater things than He did!

Mark 16:17-18
These miraculous signs will accompany those who HAVE believed: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages.[e] 18 They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”

Need to study the Greek. Believe is PAST TENSE. This verse addresses those who have believed in THAT generation. The syntax and context of the verse does not apply to us. Sorry. Correct exegesis always reveals the content / context / application

John 14:12
“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.

Again - CONTEXT. Read Acts 2. They apostles FINISHED what Jesus began - they built the church. That is the greater thing, that the Word went out to the Gentiles - a greater thing because Jesus came for the House of Israel only.

[keck553]

Rom 8:28 LITV
(28) But we know that to the ones loving God all things work together for good, to those being called according to purpose;

For the good of God's kingdom that is...

[Desperaux]

Need to study the Greek. Believe is PAST TENSE. This verse addresses those who have believed in THAT generation. The syntax and context of the verse does not apply to us. Sorry. Correct exegesis re

That's the silliest thing I have ever read.

Again - CONTEXT. Read Acts 2. They apostles FINISHED what Jesus began - they built the church. That is the greater thing, that the Word went out to the Gentiles - a greater thing because Jesus came for the House of Israel only.

False. Jesus Christ is still waging a building program. Greater WORKS is what we are granted to do.

[keck553]

That's the silliest thing I have ever read.

Wisdom doesn't care if you think she's silly.

False. Jesus Christ is still waging a building program. Greater WORKS is what we are granted to do.

False
You can not back that up with Scripture. The only greater 'work' we are granted is to reach greater numbers with the Gospel.



Proverbs 14:33 Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding, but what is in the heart of fools is made known.

[keck553]

Verse says wish you to be in health, doesn't say you always will be. We suffer trials in this life for the perfecting of the saints, sometime the trials are health issues. After all, if God healed every single time, no one would ever die.

Very true. Every single Christian who ever lived either got sick of something and died, or died of an injury, or will (unless Jesus comes back). Every last one of them.

[Desperaux]

Wisdom doesn't care if you think she's silly.



You will have to back that up with Scripture.
You think God needs you to do a greater work than HIS SON? False. You are not greater than God, I don't care who you think you are.

Proverbs 14:33 Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding, but what is in the heart of fools is made known.

There is no scripture that says the Church is complete. Jesus Himself says that we will do greater works that He. He is not talking about miracles. He is talking about the fact that when He went to the Father, we are now able to influence those elected since the foundation of the world to faith and toward their great salvation.

God will fulfill the promise by using believers throughout the Church age and throughout the world to depend on Him and preach the gospel, bringing all of God’s elect to faith before Christ returns.

It is amazing that we who are flesh and blood are equipped by God to influence the word to salvation everywhere, and simultaneously, by the power of Holy Spirit.



If your use of Scripture is to subtly injure me by calling me a fool, the Lord rebuke you.

[keck553]

There is no scripture that says the Church is complete. Jesus Himself says that we will do greater works that He. He is not talking about miracles. He is talking about the fact that when He went to the Father, we are now able to influence those elected since the foundation of the world to faith and toward their great salvation.

God will fulfill the promise by using believers throughout the Church age and throughout the world to depend on Him and preach the gospel, bringing all of God’s elect to faith before Christ returns.

It is amazing that we who are flesh and blood are equipped by God to influence the word to salvation everywhere, and simultaneously, by the power of Holy Spirit.

I'll change 'finished' to 'established.' The meaning remains the same though. The signs and healings and miricles that authenticated the church ended with that generation, IOW, that ministry was finished. I could have said it more clearly. Like I said, the greater works are in numbers via His Great Commission.

If your use of Scripture is to subtly injure me by calling me a fool, the Lord rebuke you.

No intention to injure, just to point out truth. The truth has hurt me too - quite painfully in fact and that many times, but in the end correct context is a greater blessing than pretext.

[Desperaux]

Like I said, the greater works are in numbers.

Yet, you jumped the gun and said it was false.

[keck553]

Yet, you jumped the gun and said it was false.

Below is the context you set the verse up in -

We are promised by Jesus Himself that believers will be able to heal the sick and cast out demons on a regular basis, and that is how we are to be known. The same things that Jesus and His disciples did way back in the beginning have not ceased...in fact, Jesus says that we will do greater things than He did!

Mark 16:17-18
These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages.[e] 18 They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”

John 14:12
“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.


What has abated is true belief, and the teaching about the work of Holy Spirit in the believer. We need to make sure that we are being fed by Spirit-filled, Spirit-led, Bible-believing pastors and teachers, who do not deny or restrain Holy Spirit from working in His people.

The sign-gifts (whatever you want to call them) were only for that generation to authenticate Messiah and His church. That's been done. The church no longer has to 'prove' it's authenticity - hasn't for almost 2000 years.

[Desperaux]

Below is the context you set the verse up in -



The sign-gifts (whatever you want to call them) were only for that generation to authenticate Messiah and His church. That's been done. The church no longer has to 'prove' it's authenticity - hasn't for almost 2000 years.

ALL spiritual gifts are given to the Church for the use in the Body of Christ. There has been no cessation. They are for EVEY generation of the Church as long as this age shall last. It is pure folly to believe the false teachers that say these gifts are past, when they are being given to believers everywhere (except where you worship, obviously). the odd thing is that if you are saved, you have been given one or more gifts by your loving Father and have yet to appreciate it.

I wonder what the Father does with His ungrateful kids.