Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[Desperaux]

Grow up. No one is denying anything except that some of us are denying that your interpretation is correct and you are denying that ours is correct. No one is purposely denying the truth of scripture. Could one of us or even both of us be mistaken on this? Sure. But that doesn't mean either of us are purposely denying the truth of any scripture.

You cannot deny that the Lord is coming as delineated in Zechariah 14, without some major blockage in the belief department.

[Desperaux]

How can that be? They both have to do with the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth. The new heavens and new earth will be ushered in only once.

No. One is describing the Millennial Reign and the other is describing the New Earth.

[Desperaux]

And you're failing the class.

Actually I have passed with honours.

[Desperaux]

It's so glorious that once that supposed future time period is over a number as the sand of the sea will unite in rebellion against Christ and His saints. So, I guess it won't be glorious enough to convince people not to rebel.

It will indeed be a glorious time of peace, just as Isaiah described, without Satan around making things worse. It won't be a time of sinlessless, however, because man is evil in his own right, which is why Jesus will be reigning with a rod of iron.

Once Satan is loosed, he will convince many to follow after him. Choices will have to be made: follow Jesus Christ or Satan, just as always.

[billy-brown 2]

(This is the continuation of the last post . . .)

Jesus comes at a great time of war attempted against Israel. It has nothing to do with the release of Satan and the uprising he foments later. Jesus ends this attempt with His glorious and triumphant and fearsome coming. He lands on the Mount of Olives and there begins His 1000 year reign. The bible spells it out clearly for those with discernment.

I have no idea what tangent you have embarked upon, but it sure isn't based on Scripture.

LOL

Desperaux,

OK . . .

Let's look at the scriptures below from Rev. 16, 19, and 20: how many "gatherings" for "war" are represented? Is it not ONE?

Rev. 16
13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;

14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.

15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)

16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

//

Rev. 19
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

//

Rev. 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

Yep. (Just one war there . . .)

And so, this "war of the great day of God" REQUIRES Satanic deception of mortal people.

Yep.

And so, a question: How come Satan can't do that deception right now? After all, Satan has been doing all kinds of deception throughout our current age--as taught here:

Rev. 12
9And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Interesting . . .

At any rate, just remember this:

1)After the "1000 years", Satan is released to deceive nations to gather for the war . . .

2) The "gathering for the war" is a "assembling" to do the following against an IMMORTAL King Jesus and His army:

Rev. 19
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

3) The "millennium" contains death--and you have agreed to this also earlier in this thread:

Rev. 20:5
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

4) Finally, the IMMORTAL King Jesus is returning the SECOND TIME ONLY according to these verses below:

Heb. 9
23Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.

26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Yep.

Christ came once to redeem all of us, and He will come again the second time only for kingdom consummation; That's It . . .

(And there are only TWO ages . . .)




(Do you see what I am getting at . . .)

[John146]

Daniel 7:13-14
13 As my vision continued that night, I saw someone like a son of man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient One and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, honor, and sovereignty over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language would obey him. His rule is eternal—it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed.


Jesus Christ has spiritually fulfilled that prophecy in Daniel, but we have yet to see Jesus literally enthroned in the Earth, with all nations in obedience to Him, don't we???

I don't see anything about that in Daniel 7:13-14. According to Eph 1:19-23 He already has authority over "every name that is named" so I believe your understanding that it's saying that every person on earth would obey Him is flawed. How could it be that every person on earth would obey Him during that time but then all of a sudden a number as the sand of the sea rebels against Him?

[John146]

You cannot deny that the Lord is coming as delineated in Zechariah 14, without some major blockage in the belief department.

No matter what you say your understanding of Zechariah 14 is just your opinion and not a fact. So, you can mention Zechariah 14 all you want but it proves nothing.

[John146]

No. One is describing the Millennial Reign and the other is describing the New Earth.

Nope, sorry. Both are describing the new heavens and new earth and it really couldn't be more clear.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Same new heaven and new earth as this:

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

According to Peter we, according to the promise of Christ's second coming, should be looking for new heavens and a new earth, not an earthly millennial kingdom.

[John146]

It will indeed be a glorious time of peace, just as Isaiah described, without Satan around making things worse. It won't be a time of sinlessless, however, because man is evil in his own right, which is why Jesus will be reigning with a rod of iron.

Once Satan is loosed, he will convince many to follow after him. Choices will have to be made: follow Jesus Christ or Satan, just as always.

So, a number as the sand of the sea will choose to follow Satan despite having just experienced a thousand years of peace on the earth under the rule of Christ in all His glory. And this is supposed to make sense?

[billy-brown 2]

You are doing the missing. You are in denial of part of the plan of God---the glorious Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ in Israel along with His saints.

Desperaux,

Well, let's look at the grammar of this scripture below again:

Rev. 20:4
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw

1) the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and

2) they came to life and reigned

with Christ

3) for a thousand years.

Now, the grammar informs, yes?

Indeed, the souls came to life and reigned with Christ.

In other words, "the souls" are what this verse is about; after all, Christ reigns FOREVER:

Dan. 7
13“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

14“And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Yep.

Indeed, Christ's reign is FOREVER--and not "1000 years" at all. And FOREVER is longer than "1000 years" indeed, yes?

And also, Christ comes UP to get "dominion, glory, and a kingdom" from the Ancient of Days in Dan. 7, yes? This has happened already . . . after all, when did Christ ascend UP on high?

Eph. 4
7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

8Therefore it says,
“WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH,
HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES,
AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.”

9(Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?

10He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

[divaD]

Yep.

Indeed, Christ's reign is FOREVER--and not "1000 years" at all. And FOREVER is longer than "1000 years" indeed, yes?

This argument just doesn't float. The 1000 years are only a marker of time, in regards to satan's binding and release, and the dead who remain dead until this time is fulfilled. That in no way implies that Jesus' reign is not forever. If the reign ends with the 1000 years ending, then why is satan deceiving nations to attack someone who is no longer reigning?

[divaD]

3) The "millennium" contains death--and you have agreed to this also earlier in this thread:

Why wouldn't it contain death? Would you conclude that the mortal survivors in Zech 14 should live forever then? They obviously couldn't be immortal, could they? If they are immortal, then why will some of them refuse to go up to worship the King? Also, Zech 14 is obviously yet to be fulfilled. So you have to consider things from that perspective, i would think.
Not to mention what can be inferred from Isaiah 65, in regards to living and dying, which would occur during the new heavens and a new earth, which would have to be the same period of time as the 1000 years, even tho a great majority of premils are going to disagree with that part.

[billy-brown 2]

This argument just doesn't float. The 1000 years are only a marker of time, in regards to satan's binding and release, and the dead who remain dead until this time is fulfilled. That in no way implies that Jesus' reign is not forever. If the reign ends with the 1000 years ending, then why is satan deceiving nations to attack someone who is no longer reigning?

LOL

Well, if the "1000 years" are only a marker of time in regards to what you are mentioning, then it becomes easy to see that the "1000 years" could not really be a marker of "1000 actual earth-clock-time" years. Why?

Well, because Rev. 20:5 describe the unrighteous dead; look at the verses again:

Rev. 20
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

And these are indeed the unrighteous dead, yes? Many of them have been dead over "1000 earth-clock-time" years already . . .

[billy-brown 2]

Why wouldn't it contain death? Would you conclude that the mortal survivors in Zech 14 should live forever then? They obviously couldn't be immortal, could they? If they are immortal, then why will some of them refuse to go up to worship the King? Also, Zech 14 is obviously yet to be fulfilled. So you have to consider things from that perspective, i would think.
Not to mention what can be inferred from Isaiah 65, in regards to living and dying, which would occur during the new heavens and a new earth, which would have to be the same period of time as the 1000 years, even tho a great majority of premils are going to disagree with that part.

Well, the only reason I mentioned that part is because of the OP.

Remember, Satan is required to DECEIVE mortal people to gather for the war of the day of God.

And all of these people are destroyed by Christ at His Second Coming; the righteous survive His return only:

Rev. 19
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Yep . . .

[divaD]

And all of these people are destroyed by Christ at His Second Coming; the righteous survive His return only:

That's not what Zech 14 says tho. Nowhere in Zech 14 does it say that everyone on the earth but saints are killed when Christ returns. I find it unreasonable to interpret Rev 19 apart from Zech 14, since the Lord only returns once, and both Zech 14 and Rev 19 have the return of Christ in view.