Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[Diggindeeper]

Why do you believe that mortal people will be left to repopulate?
What happened to all the people prior to this repopulation process?
According to Jesus and Paul, when Christ returns to immortalise his redeemed , the wicked will be eternally banished...so who is left that is mortal to repopulate?

Great question!!! They tell us about all these people 'left behind' to have babies, but I have yet to find scripture to back that up! Its another one of the fantasies some pre-trib theory believers have come up with.......

[billy-brown 2]

That final abolition of death takes place at the final Judgment, long after Jesus will have returned. For us, His people, death will be no more a power over us because we will have already been changed into immortality and glory at the Rapture---the first resurrection.

Desperaux,

I feel that the bold text from your quote above is describing the "second" resurrection--and not the first resurrection. Might we look at these verses again from Rev. 20 apropos the first resurrection?

Rev. 20
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Now, these are vision verses, yes? And so, this means that the individuals represented in underlined bold above has to refer to anybody--past, present, or future--who was (or will be) beheaded by the beast for the following reasons:

1) because of their testimony of Jesus
2) because of the word of God
3) (because they) had not worshiped the beast or his image
4) (because they) had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand

Now, it only takes ONE saint from a time earlier than ours who experienced beheading by the beast to suggest that "the first resurrection" can not be just future from our time, but has been ongoing during our current age. Just ONE.

Why?

Because the vision of Rev. 20:4-6 refers to DEAD people in general--saints and non-saints DURING a "binding of Satan" and so on. And so, here's ONE saint (of many before our time) from the book of Acts:

Acts 12
1Now about that time Herod the king laid hands on some who belonged to the church in order to mistreat them.
2And he had James the brother of John put to death with a sword.
3When he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also. Now it was during the days of Unleavened Bread.
4When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people.
5So Peter was kept in the prison, but prayer for him was being made fervently by the church to God.

And so, any notion that the "first resurrection" is physical--involving a change into bodily immortality--has to be called into question . . .

Thus, the following dialectics need to be given serious consideration:

a) The first resurrection is spiritual--and not physical.

b) The second death is spiritual--and not physical.

c) The "first death" is physical--and not spiritual.

d) The "second resurrection" is physical--and not spiritual.

And the dialectic of d) above is implied by Christ Jesus Himself in the scriptures below:

John 5
28 “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

And Jesus is describing one resurrection in John 5 above at a single hour--an hour which includes

1) resurrection of life for the righteous (what you are rightly mentioning in your quote above), and
2) resurrection of judgment for the unrighteous

And both are raised at the same time--HARVEST TIME at the end of this current age. Indeed, the unrighteous they are raised for judgment and burning--they are indeed the tares of Matt. 13, while the righteous are raised to bodily immortality as the wheat of Matt. 13:

Matt. 13
24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25“But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26“But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27“The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’
28“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’
29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

//

36Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

[divaD]

And so, John indicates that the first group of DEAD people (the beheaded martyrs) lived and reigned with Christ and so on. However, since John saw their souls in the vision, this would mean that they were still DEAD physically.

Do you see what I mean?

(This is all that I am seeking to mention in this . . .)

But when did he see their souls? Likely before they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years. The fact they end up living and reigning with Christ shows they would likely be in immortal glorified bodies at that point. That text doesn't indicate they reigned as souls with Christ in heaven 1000 years. That sounds like Catholic dogma to me. I've pointed this out in the past on several occasions, but we may as well pray to the saints in heaven, as do the Catholics, since the saints are obviously reigning as kings and priests in heaven. The conclusion is nonsensical, yet all you non premils are so adamant that we premils are wrong about the text.

Let's start dealing with the text head on. Clearly show how 'had not worshipped' can mean present and or future tense. If they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years, why was that? Wasn't it because they 'had not worshipped'?

The text does not say the following.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which ARE NOT worshippING the beast, neither his image, neither ARE receivING his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Yet you all are saying the text indeed says this. There is a huge difference between...'had not worshipped' ..and...'ARE NOT worshippING'. The key to understanding this verse is to realize that John is seeing this vision at the beginning of the 1000 years. And the fact that some were beheaded, that would make them as souls prior to the beginning of the 1000 years. That's why John first sees them as souls. What do you do with Genesis 2 then? Didn't man become a living soul once the breath of life entered into him? That's the exact same thing that happens here in Rev 20:4. Man becomes a living soul once again, meaning he now once again has a body with the breath of life breathed back into it. But this time, everything is immortal. Try getting outside more often, as in outside of the box.

[divaD]

In another thread I made note of the following, except no one wanted to tackle it apparently. Maybe someone can tackle this in this thread?

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


If this is to be understood as the 2nd coming, then this would imply no living suvivors, the fact it plainly says...and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

So if they were all devoured by the fire, and if this is supposed to be parallel with the latter portions of Rev 19, then why do we see the following in Rev 19?

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Logically, how can they be cast alive into the LOF if they were supposed to have been devoured by fire from God out of heaven in Rev 20? That would be like concluding, when God rained fire down on Sodom and Gomorrah and devoured them, that none of them really literally died. Yet Rev 19 clearly says the beast, and the false prophet were taken, but not only that, but taken alive, since they are seen as being cast into the LOF alive. While Rev 20 clearly says...and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

[billy-brown 2]

But when did he see their souls? Likely before they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years. The fact they end up living and reigning with Christ shows they would likely be in immortal glorified bodies at that point. That text doesn't indicate they reigned as souls with Christ in heaven 1000 years. That sounds like Catholic dogma to me. I've pointed this out in the past on several occasions, but we may as well pray to the saints in heaven, as do the Catholics, since the saints are obviously reigning as kings and priests in heaven. The conclusion is nonsensical, yet all you non premils are so adamant that we premils are wrong about the text.

Let's start dealing with the text head on. Clearly show how 'had not worshipped' can mean present and or future tense. If they lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years, why was that? Wasn't it because they 'had not worshipped'?

The text does not say the following.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which ARE NOT worshippING the beast, neither his image, neither ARE receivING his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Yet you all are saying the text indeed says this. There is a huge difference between...'had not worshipped' ..and...'ARE NOT worshippING'. The key to understanding this verse is to realize that John is seeing this vision at the beginning of the 1000 years. And the fact that some were beheaded, that would make them as souls prior to the beginning of the 1000 years. That's why John first sees them as souls. What do you do with Genesis 2 then? Didn't man become a living soul once the breath of life entered into him? That's the exact same thing that happens here in Rev 20:4. Man becomes a living soul once again, meaning he now once again has a body with the breath of life breathed back into it. But this time, everything is immortal. Try getting outside more often, as in outside of the box.

These are great questions and points, but the answers are simple; just remember: John was in the spirit on Patmos in the 1st century seeing a VISION.

Yep. A VISION.

And this VISION was written down at the command of Jesus Christ for a primary audience of seven first-century churches from Asia. Now, how did that group understand what they were reading?

Well, it seems to me that they had to have understood it in terms of what many of them had already experienced (or was about to experience) already. I'm sure that you realize that there was a beast during that first-century time that was beheading many--and for these reasons:

1) for the witness of Jesus, and
2) for the word of God

In other words, these saints were faithful to Christ during those first-century days, yes? And so, they died by the hand of the beast because they

1) had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands . . .

And the Rev. 13 vision is insightful here also:

Rev. 13
11Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.

12He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

13He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.

14And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

15And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

Yep.

Now, there are NO martyrs that have died after the Second Coming of Christ, because we know that that hasn't happened yet, right? Therefore, these first-century martyrs do not have glorified bodies at this time--neither do any of the other martyrs throughout our age.

Thus, the first resurrection is spiritual, and not physical:

Rev. 20
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And as for being "outside" of the box and so on--I really fell that what I am sharing is really that; when I share it with people at the church, I get really strange looks . . .

[Desperaux]

Why do you believe that mortal people will be left to repopulate?
What happened to all the people prior to this repopulation process?
According to Jesus and Paul, when Christ returns to immortalise his redeemed , the wicked will be eternally banished...so who is left that is mortal to repopulate?

What? Who do you think the nations we will be ruling are? There will be a decimation of the population during the Great Tribulation and at the Lord's coming!

You are wrong in your estimation of what happens at Christ's coming.

[Desperaux]

Desperaux,

I feel that the bold text from your quote above is describing the "second" resurrection--and not the first resurrection. Might we look at these verses again from Rev. 20 apropos the first resurrection?

The second resurrection as you put it (but the bible doesn't!) is for the dead outside of Christ.

[Desperaux]

And as for being "outside" of the box and so on--I really fell that what I am sharing is really that; when I share it with people at the church, I get really strange looks . . .

I can see why! Why don't you let the leaders at your church teach you?

[billy-brown 2]

I can see why! Why don't you let the leaders at your church teach you?

LOL

Desperaux,

You are aware of these verses below, yes? I'm sure that you have the same posture thereby:

Acts 17
1Now when they had traveled through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.
2And according to Paul’s custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
3explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ.”
4And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

10The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
12Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men.

Indeed, the Scriptures only are our standard for life in Christ.

Yep.

And the OP deals with the following Scriptures:

Rev. 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[Desperaux]

LOL

And the OP deals with the following Scriptures:

What of the OP's question?

[billy-brown 2]

What of the OP's question?

Well, we have an OP, yes? (see below . . .)

Just been pondering over this verse recently

⁷ And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
⁸ and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Satan's tricks are always the same it seems. The only thing he knows how to do is lie and deceive. As he started

⁴ -And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: ⁵ for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.-

so shall he finish. The first thing he does when he is released is deceive.......

The Greek word in this verse is planaō


1) to cause to stray, to lead astray, lead aside from the right way
a) to go astray, wander, roam about
2) metaph.
a) to lead away from the truth, to lead into error, to deceive
b) to be led into error
c) to be led aside from the path of virtue, to go astray, sin
d) to sever or fall away from the truth
1) of heretics
e) to be led away into error and sin


The word is used 51 times in 37 verses, makes me think this is a very important point Some other verses include

²⁹ But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.


⁴ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray.
⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.

¹¹ And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

⁹ Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
¹⁰ nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


⁷ Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

¹³ But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

¹⁹ My brethren, if any among you err from the truth, and one convert him;

⁷ My little children, let no man lead you astray: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous:

Now for those who hold to the Amil/ParPret view

⁹ And the great dragon was cast down, the old serpent, he that is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he was cast down to the earth, and his angels were cast down with him.

¹⁴ And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived.

²³ and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.

³ and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.


Now my question to those who hold this latter view, from these scriptures and from what you see going on in the world and in the world of believers, do you think that satan is released for the above little season? Do you believe it's about to happen, has been going on for a while now but still has a while to go, or is he almost at the end of this short season?


blessings to you

And my answer to the OP is in post #4 of this thread . . .

[divaD]

And as for being "outside" of the box and so on--I really fell that what I am sharing is really that; when I share it with people at the church, I get really strange looks . . .

I started thinking about that after I posted that. I can see where that may have been taken as in general. But I wasn't trying to imply, that in general, you don't think outside of the box. Clearly you do. And clearly you think outside of the box more than a lot of others...no doubt in my mind. I'm just meaning in relation to Rev 20:4 and how that connects with Genesis 2 in a roundabout way. You're not outside the box far enough on that one, only in my opin tho.

[Desperaux]

Well, we have an OP, yes? (see below . . .)



And my answer to the OP is in post #4 of this thread . . .

After reading your post #4, it seems you are in accordance with preterists who say we are already in the Millennium. Sorry, but the age that Satan foments an uprising in (as if he isn't behind every other one since the beginning of time!) is not this age, but the Millennial Age yet to come, with Jesus Christ as its monarch.


Isaiah 33:5
Though the Lord is very great and lives in heaven, he will make Jerusalem his home of justice and righteousness.

[divaD]

These are great questions and points, but the answers are simple; just remember: John was in the spirit on Patmos in the 1st century seeing a VISION.

Yep. A VISION.

And this VISION was written down at the command of Jesus Christ for a primary audience of seven first-century churches from Asia. Now, how did that group understand what they were reading?

Well, it seems to me that they had to have understood it in terms of what many of them had already experienced (or was about to experience) already. I'm sure that you realize that there was a beast during that first-century time that was beheading many--and for these reasons:



In other words, these saints were faithful to Christ during those first-century days, yes? And so, they died by the hand of the beast because they

Let's just go with this for a moment...the audience being those of the 1st century. What then did those of the 1st century need to understand about the 2nd coming, about satan getting cast into the LOF, and the new heavens and a new earth, since apparently, none of those things happened during those times? Why couldn't John simply be writing to the church in general, which would include, not only those of his time, but those of our time as well, or any time between ours and his?

For the sake of argument, when we get to Rev 20:4, the reason John states 'had not worshipped', is because he is telling the story as if it were already finished at that point, and that it was the ones that had not worshipped, these are the ones that got to reign with Christ during that time. And let's assume that time is meaning like our present age.

So why then, after saying that, which should have been the end of the story, does he then go on to tell us that satan gets loosed after this period of time, and the fate he meets with? Why not just do all of that in ch 19? John had no problem showing us the fate of the beast and false prophet. So why was he so reluctant to tell us about the fate of satan, in Rev 19, if he indeed met his fate at the same time? That doesn't add up. Hmmm....maybe someone needs to do another thread on things that don't add up.

[Diggindeeper]

Let's just go with this for a moment...the audience being those of the 1st century. What then did those of the 1st century need to understand about the 2nd coming, about satan getting cast into the LOF, and the new heavens and a new earth, since apparently, none of those things happened during those times? Why couldn't John simply be writing to the church in general, which would include, not only those of his time, but those of our time as well, or any time between ours and his?

For the sake of argument, when we get to Rev 20:4, the reason John states 'had not worshipped', is because he is telling the story as if it were already finished at that point, and that it was the ones that had not worshipped, these are the ones that got to reign with Christ during that time. And let's assume that time is meaning like our present age.

So why then, after saying that, which should have been the end of the story, does he then go on to tell us that satan gets loosed after this period of time, and the fate he meets with? Why not just do all of that in ch 19? John had no problem showing us the fate of the beast and false prophet. So why was he so reluctant to tell us about the fate of satan, in Rev 19, if he indeed met his fate at the same time? That doesn't add up. Hmmm....maybe someone needs to do another thread on things that don't add up.

DivaD, there have not always been 'chapters' and 'verses' in the Bible. That was done by men, by publishers, to make it easier to find things.

Plus...consider this. If you or I die tonight, we would be among those who 'had not worshiped' the beast.....or I haven't. I don't think you have either. So it adds up.