Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[John146]

The purpose of the thousand years apart from what God only knows, is that it fulfills the promise to Israel that the Messiah will reign as an earthly king.

Why would God promise that since it apparently would amount to nothing?

The short time of massive deception will cause people to make a decision for or against Christ---for salvation---just as all humanity has ever had to do.

That doesn't explain how that short time could have more influence than the previous thousand years combined.

[Desperaux]

Why would God promise that since it apparently would amount to nothing?

Now, that is a comment based on your opinion.

That doesn't explain how that short time could have more influence than the previous thousand years combined.

It just goes to show you that while millions of people will have known peaceful rule, they did not know salvation.

[divaD]

.........only to then destroy it all and make a new one? ????????

Not all premils see it that way tho. Since I'm convinced that Isaiah 65:17-25 is parallel with the timing in Rev 21-22, and the fact that Isaiah 65 paints a picture of life and death happening within that context, I am then forced to conclude that the 1000 years coincides with the new heavens and a new earth, and not that the new heavens and new earth follow after the 1000 years, in which non premils and many premils agree about, except not in quite the same way. If Isaiah 65 didn't contain verses 20-22, then you all might have a better case. Either that and we're all wrong, and the preterists are the ones right, concerning the new heavens and a new earth. That's not likely tho, since there is still 2 Peter 3 to consider, in which is unmistakably a future event, which speaks about this very same time.
Regardless how one views the 1000 years, clearly 2 Peter 3 gets fulfilled, not 1000 years and a little season after Christ returns, but when Christ returns. And then we have to take into consideration what Isaiah 65 has to say about this period of time, especially verse 20-22.


Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Trees are known to live long periods of time, but I don't know of any tree that can live forever. Why compare the days of my people with that of the days of a tree? Why not compare it to something everlasting instead, if that is the sense that's to be understood?

[divaD]

Why can't you just accept it for what it says? It's clearly speaking of something that was already a reality at the time it was written. It says "hath made", not "will make". Is it any different than what the following says:

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Peter refers to the church as "a royal priesthood". What's the difference between saying that and saying that Christ "hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father"? We are a royal priesthood right now, are we not? That means we are kings and priests right now.

But your still missing the point tho. What about those souls that were beheaded, etc? They too would be part of this 1st resurrection, a spiritual one at that. In what way could they be reigning as priests with Christ in heaven? Until someone can explain that to me, i'm just never going to be able to figure out how you all are coming to your conclusions. I can certainly see your conclusions fitting with this age, but there's still a matter of those beheaded souls that would be reigning as priests with Christ, not on earth, but in heaven. How is that even reasonable? Let's not forget that there are also beheaded souls that have to share in this reign with Christ. Let's not forget about them, that's the point.

[John146]

Now, that is a comment based on your opinion.

Of course. Just like all of your comments. So? What do you think would be accomplished by having a thousand years of the Messiah ruling on the earth in a kingdom of peace only to see everything fall apart afterwards?

It just goes to show you that while millions of people will have known peaceful rule, they did not know salvation.

Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't salvation be emphasized during that time?

[John146]

Not all premils see it that way tho. Since I'm convinced that Isaiah 65:17-25 is parallel with the timing in Rev 21-22, and the fact that Isaiah 65 paints a picture of life and death happening within that context, I am then forced to conclude that the 1000 years coincides with the new heavens and a new earth, and not that the new heavens and new earth follow after the 1000 years, in which non premils and many premils agree about, except not in quite the same way. If Isaiah 65 didn't contain verses 20-22, then you all might have a better case. Either that and we're all wrong, and the preterists are the ones right, concerning the new heavens and a new earth. That's not likely tho, since there is still 2 Peter 3 to consider, in which is unmistakably a future event, which speaks about this very same time.
Regardless how one views the 1000 years, clearly 2 Peter 3 gets fulfilled, not 1000 years and a little season after Christ returns, but when Christ returns. And then we have to take into consideration what Isaiah 65 has to say about this period of time, especially verse 20-22.


Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Trees are known to live long periods of time, but I don't know of any tree that can live forever. Why compare the days of my people with that of the days of a tree? Why not compare it to something everlasting instead, if that is the sense that's to be understood?

I believe that is because Isaiah knew that people of that time would have trouble understanding eternity, so he spoke in a way they could understand. I don't know how you can reconcile believing that there would be mortals on the earth when the new earth was ushered in when Rev 21:4 says at that point "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." and 2 Peter 3:10-13 indicates that the new earth will be ushered in as a result of the earth, as it is now, being burned up. How does that allow for any mortals being on the new earth?

[John146]

But your still missing the point tho.

Am I? I don't think so. Are you not saying that people are not yet "kings and priests of God and of Christ"? Did I not show that we are already "a royal priesthood"? Doesn't that address your point?

What about those souls that were beheaded, etc? They too would be part of this 1st resurrection, a spiritual one at that. In what way could they be reigning as priests with Christ in heaven? Until someone can explain that to me, i'm just never going to be able to figure out how you all are coming to your conclusions.

I believe the reference to reigning with Christ has to do with one's position in Christ and not necessarily anything to do with actively reigning in some way the way you think of an earthly king reigning over his kingdom. You know that we even now are "a royal priesthood", right? What does that mean to you? And you know that even now God has "raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph 2:4-6), right? What does that mean to you? When we physically die that doesn't change our position in Christ. Our spirits go to heaven to be with Christ and there's no reason to think that the dead in Christ are not still a part of the "royal priesthood".

When you think of people reigning with Christ what does that mean exactly to you?

[Desperaux]

Of course. Just like all of your comments. So? What do you think would be accomplished by having a thousand years of the Messiah ruling on the earth in a kingdom of peace only to see everything fall apart afterwards?

You could ask that same question of people who believe that Jesus is reigning fully now.

Why wouldn't they? Wouldn't salvation be emphasized during that time?

They wouldn't understand or experience separation from God by sin, although they will have been taught all about it, as God in the form of Jesus Christ, and His saints will be right here governing perfectly.

[billy-brown 2]

Desperaux,

However, everything discussed in post #4 is going to occur in our future. I mean, the end of our age is future from now, yes?

Indeed, one does not need to be in accordance with preterists to understand that . . .

And besides all this, Satan is released from his binding AFTER the "millennium"--and not before . . . I'm sure that's what you meant to say, yes?

I guess you forgot what you said in post #4:

And so, Satan's ability at deception is used AGAINST him by our God to end this age . . . the age that we live in currently . . .

God is the one who puts an end to this age by sending His Son, the Bridegroom to go and get His Bride.

Well, God is going to "send his Son" to do a lot of different things at the end of this age--including releasing the dragon from his binding. But this release of the dragon will be for the dragon's destruction.

Yep.

Remember, Satan has to be defeated still, yes? Indeed, Satan is not in control of his own doom, God is controlling that; this is indeed a critical additional activity of the Second Coming of the Lord Jesus.

Yep.

Indeed, if the dragon (Satan) is not released from the binding at the end of the "1000 years" for his little season--per these passages:

Rev. 20
2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

//

7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

then there is no way the dragon can deceive nations to gather for the war of the great day of God. And the Lord Jesus (THE WORD OF GOD) and His armies must assemble against the dragon's forces per Rev. 19.

(In other words, Satan the dragon is bound from doing this right now by God.)

Yep.

And remember, THE WORD OF GOD (Jesus Christ) of Rev. 19 returns the second time only, yes? (See Heb. 9:27-28.) I mean, how many times will Jesus return, anyway? It is not ONE additional time--the second time?

[Desperaux]

Yes, Jesus comes once, and I don't understand why you continue to reiterate that. He comes once and establishes His Kingdom on earth and will reign within it for 1000 years.

What is holding Satan back from fully deceiving the whole world into a massive revolt is that Jesus is not here physically, and the Holy Spirit is. Holy Spirit living in His people are a formidable force against Satan. We would dominate him and he knows it. He is powerless against the Body of Christ acting in unison against him.

[Diggindeeper]

Yes, Jesus comes once, and I don't understand why you continue to reiterate that. He comes once and establishes His Kingdom on earth and will reign within it for 1000 years.

What is holding Satan back from fully deceiving the whole world into a massive revolt is that Jesus is not here physically, and the Holy Spirit is. Holy Spirit living in His people are a formidable force against Satan. We would dominate him and he knows it. He is powerless against the Body of Christ acting in unison against him.

When he comes again, the second and only time, he is not setting up a temporary, trial kingdom. His is a kingdom with NO END. It is eternal. Everlasting.

Satan is only powerless against God. We are nothing. Our faith must be in God. In our own power we are useless.

[Desperaux]

When he comes again, the second and only time, he is not setting up a temporary, trial kingdom. His is a kingdom with NO END. It is eternal. Everlasting.

Satan is only powerless against God. We are nothing. Our faith must be in God. In our own power we are useless.

Trial Kingdom? No. He is fulfilling prophecy whether you discern that or not. He is Israel's King and will come as such.

Satan is powerless against the authority of Jesus Christ, which we have been given. If you do not receive it or use it, you will be overcome.

[billy-brown 2]

Yes, Jesus comes once,

(i.e., the second time . . . I know what you mean . . .)

Yep . . . Amen!

and I don't understand why you continue to reiterate that. He comes once and establishes His Kingdom on earth and will reign within it for 1000 years.

Well, the Kingdom has been established on earth already by Christ Jesus from heaven--and you and I are in it right now, yes? Look at this passage to see it:

Col. 1
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Now, if we are not in the Kingdom of His beloved Son right now as children of the Most High God, then we don't have forgiveness of our sins yet, nor redemption. That can't be true, yes?

And you mentioned Daniel 7:13-14 already in this thread; that passage tells us that Christ came UP and received already the "Indestructible Everlasting Kingdom Dominion and Glory" (IEKDG) from the Father. Indeed, the ONLY time Jesus could have received that is at His resurrection/ascension after His sacrifice for you and I. Here are those verses again:

Dan. 7
13“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

14“And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

And Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father with the IEKDG right now in the midst of ENEMIES; after he abolishes these ENEMIES (the last enemy being death itself), then Rev. 11:15 comes into play:

Rev. 11
15Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”
16And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17saying,
“We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.
18“And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for

1) the dead to be judged, and
2) the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and
3) to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Yep. Indeed, Wrath, Judgment, Reward, and Destruction will occur from the Lord God as a specific time in the future from now. What time will that be? Will that not be at Harvest time--even at the end of the age?

Here we are--from Jesus Himself:

Matt. 13
37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

(go to the next post . . .)

[billy-brown 2]

( . . . this is the continuation of the last post . . .)

What is holding Satan back from fully deceiving the whole world into a massive revolt is that Jesus is not here physically, and the Holy Spirit is. Holy Spirit living in His people are a formidable force against Satan. We would dominate him and he knows it. He is powerless against the Body of Christ acting in unison against him.

Well, this is only because we have delegated authority to cast out devils in Jesus' name, and are therefore in the Kingdom of God right now:

Luke 11
14And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed.
15But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.”
16Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven.
17But He knew their thoughts and said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.
18“If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.
19“And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges.
20“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

However, Satan can still do the following to the saints during our current age:

Rev. 2
12“And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this:

13‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

[Desperaux]

(i.e., the second time . . . I know what you mean . . .)

Yep . . . Amen!

Yes, He returns once.

Well, the Kingdom has been established on earth already by Christ Jesus from heaven--and you and I are in it right now, yes? Look at this passage to see it:

Nope. Last time I looked, Jesus was not governing the earth from Jerusalem yet.

Now, if we are not in the Kingdom of His beloved Son right now as children of the Most High God, then we don't have forgiveness of our sins yet, nor redemption. That can't be true, yes?

Yes, we are in the spiritual Kingdom.

And you mentioned Daniel 7:13-14 already in this thread; that passage tells us that Christ came UP and received already the "Indestructible Everlasting Kingdom Dominion and Glory" (IEKDG) from the Father. Indeed, the ONLY time Jesus could have received that is at His resurrection/ascension after His sacrifice for you and I. Here are those verses again:

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “I kept looking in the night dream and saw One like a Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. He came to the One Who has lived forever, and was brought before Him. 14 And He was given power and shining-greatness, and was made King, so that all the people of every nation and language would serve Him. His rule lasts forever. It will never pass away. And His nation will never be destroyed.

And Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father with the IEKDG right now in the midst of ENEMIES; after he abolishes these ENEMIES (the last enemy being death itself), then Rev. 11:15 comes into play:

Yes, He is enthroned beside the Father, but He hasn't taken His position on Earth yet.

Yep. Indeed, Wrath, Judgment, Reward, and Destruction will occur from the Lord God as a specific time in the future from now. What time will that be? Will that not be at Harvest time--even at the end of the age?

It will occur in the Millennial rule with His dividing the sheep from the goats.