Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[The Beginner]

But what does it mean? You didn't say what you think those are saying. The dead in Christ reign with Him in heaven and those of us who are alive reign with Him on the earth. It clearly indicates that believers reign now as kings and priests, according to Rev 1:5-6 and according to verses like 1 Peter 2:9 that say we are "a royal priesthood". Even Rev 5:10 says we have already been "made...kings and priests". And we are on the earth right now. So, since we are already kings and priests on the earth why would it be that we are not reigning even now?

As far as the dead in Christ, it's only their bodies that are dead so why wouldn't they also be reigning with Christ? The word "shall" does not have to refer to something that will only occur in the future. It can refer to something that is already a reality and will continue to be a reality into the future. Look at Rev 20:6. It says "they shall be priests of God and of Christ" and yet we can see that Rev 1:5-6 and Rev 5:10 talk about believers having already been made priests of God and of Christ. So, if you try to say that being priests of God and of Christ is not a current reality then you are not accepting what Rev 1:5-6 and Rev 5:10 say, IMO. And I think it only follows that if believers (both living and the dead in Christ) are currently priests of God and of Christ then it must be that we are all reigning with Christ right now.

You are saying that "shall reign" is not being used in the future sense but the present unto the future. The problem is that no where else in the New Testament do the writers use the phrase "shall reign" to describe a current condition. I shall list them:

Rom 15:12 And again, Isaiah says: "THERE SHALL BE A ROOT OF JESSE; AND HE WHO SHALL RISE TO REIGN OVER THE GENTILES, IN HIM THE GENTILES SHALL HOPE."

- This verse was spoken of by Isaiah and the fulfillment of it was clearly a future reality to Isaiah... not present.

2Ti 2:11-12 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. (12) If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

- Paul said "If we endure with Him we shall reign with Him" This is not talking about present conditions. It does not say "As we endure with Him we are also reigning with Him". There is a required time of endurance to be rewarded with reigning. Thus the context is future from the time of "enduring"..

Rev 11:15-18 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" (16) And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, (17) saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. (18) The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."

Notice that "He shall reign forever and ever" is at the time of the rewarding of the saints and bringing judgment on the earth. Which is future...

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Why would John say here "they shall be priest" if he already had language to say "made us kings and priest" if both meant a "present condition"?

Rev 22:3-6 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. (4) They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. (5) There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever. (6) Then he said to me, "These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

Is this also in the past? No, this is clearly future context. "They shall reign" is used in a future context every time in scripture. Why would Rev 5 be the only exception?

This is the same idea that is laid out in revelation 2:26-27

Rev 2:25-27 But hold fast what you have till I come. (26) And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations— (27) 'HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON; THEY SHALL BE DASHED TO PIECES LIKE THE POTTER'S VESSELS'— as I also have received from My Father;

Notice the timing: Hold fast till I come (2nd Coming). Keeps my works until the end (either death or 2nd coming)
Notice the location: I will give power of the nations (nations are on earth, unless you believe saints will rule over other glorified bodied people in heaven)
Notice the nature of the ruling: Rule them with a rod of iron... "as I also recieved from My Father". Even as a Amill I would assume you believe the context of Jesus crushing the nations is 2nd coming (i.e. "till I come").

If saints are recieving a rulership "like Jesus received from His Father", are we to assume that Jesus' is only speaking of His "spiritual" ruling with a rod of Iron and only His "spiritually" crushing of the nations? Is there nothing in this passage that is "physical and on earth" in view here?

[divaD]

3) What kind of power does the dragon have? Deception power!

Yep.

Deception power is ALL that the dragon has to work with, yes? Indeed, he can't MAKE ANYONE DO ANYTHING. Indeed, the dragon has to deceive people; otherwise, he can't get anything done . . . And God LETS the dragon deceive during our age--but there is ONE deception (among several) that he CANNOT do. As you can gather, I am describing the nature of the dragon's binding: it is a "dog leash" binding only.

(go to the next post . . .)

I wouldn't see where this is helping your case out much. Especially since you said deception power. I thought that that was the reason the dragon would be bound during this time, in order to curb or eliminate deceiving? But if he is now doing that thru the beast, I don't see why that wouldn't mean he himself is still deceiving. Since the devil can't be everywhere at the same time, and the fact that folks are still deceived, that tells me that the devil works through others in order to accomplish his deceptions, like thru his angels, etc. So it would be no different if he used this beast to deceive, it would still be like he himself were doing the deceiving, since this deception power would be originating thru him. I don't understand why you all can't see the numerous contradictions to your views that I can see? And I'm certain you feel the same likewise.


So llet me ask something in general. Should anything in Rev 20 be based on logic? What I mean is, if things aren't adding up logically, couldn't that be an indication that one's understanding is a bit off? Or should logic have little to do with it? Keep in mind, I'm asking this in general, which would include all of us I would think.

[The Beginner]

Isaiah 65:22-25
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.
24 “ It shall come to pass
That before they call, I will answer;
And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
The lion shall eat straw like the ox,
And dust shall be the serpent’s food.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,”
Says the LORD.

That passage has nothing to do with an earthly millennial kingdom. That has to do with the new earth where "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain" (Rev 21:4).

On one hand you say that "The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her nor the voice of crying" (Isaiah 66:19) is the exact same passage as "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."(Rev 22:4). Yet Isaiah 65 says nothing of there being "no more death"... In fact, the passage goes to great lenghts to say there will be death in that time. I think the context is Jerusalem centric in Isaiah 65 and is referencing to God restoring joy to that nation.

IMO, there is simply too many details in Isaiah 65 that do not fit a eternal age context to sweep it into that camp...

Will there be infants in the Eternal age?
Will there be old men in the Eternal age?
Will there be children in the Eternal age?
Will there be sinners in the Eternal age?
Will there be someone dying a 100 in the Eternal age?
Can anyone be accursed in the Eternal age?
Will people build houses in the Eternal age
Will people plant vineyards in the Eternal age
Do trees live forever... no, what about people?
Will people bear children in the Eternal Age?
Will Wolf's lambs, lions, ox and snakes exist in the eternal age?

If all of this is symbolic, how do you know and why is Isaiah giving so many details that wont exist?

[Diggindeeper]

I wouldn't see where this is helping your case out much. Especially since you said deception power. I thought that that was the reason the dragon would be bound during this time, in order to curb or eliminate deceiving? But if he is now doing that thru the beast, I don't see why that wouldn't mean he himself is still deceiving. Since the devil can't be everywhere at the same time, and the fact that folks are still deceived, that tells me that the devil works through others in order to accomplish his deceptions, like thru his angels, etc. So it would be no different if he used this beast to deceive, it would still be like he himself were doing the deceiving, since this deception power would be originating thru him. I don't understand why you all can't see the numerous contradictions to your views that I can see? And I'm certain you feel the same likewise.


So llet me ask something in general. Should anything in Rev 20 be based on logic? What I mean is, if things aren't adding up logically, couldn't that be an indication that one's understanding is a bit off? Or should logic have little to do with it? Keep in mind, I'm asking this in general, which would include all of us I would think.

DivaD, I think your understanding is that the devil (or that old dragon!) is STILL deceiving people. Therefore, he can't yet be bound. Am I right? Is that your understanding?

But you see here is what is actually said about that:

Revelations 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelations 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Before Christ...satan had the power to deceive ENTIRE NATIONS! Only God's CHOSEN people could HEAR from God. All other nations could not even HEAR or UNDERSTAND. Entire nation WERE deceived!

Nations, DivaD. Not individuals. NATIONS. Of course, individual people are still deceived. Entire nations are not. They may be anti-Christ, but even THEY know of Jesus and they know of Christians. And they hate them.

[John146]

BTW, I see no reason that beheaded would have to be understood so literally.

This is an interesting statement from someone who insists that Satan's binding must be taken very literally.

The fact that folks have to get over the beast, and the fact that satan gives power to this beast, I then find it illogical how he could do that if he himself were bound during this time. Where would he be getting this power, and this seat, and this great authority, to give to the beast, if he himself were limited, so to speak, in power, and authority during this time? I would think he could only do that when he wasn't all tied up, so to speak, which would mean before the 1000 years even began.

Along these same lines consider this verse:

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

I take this to mean that the beast "was" in some sense before John wrote this, "is not" in some sense at the time he wrote it and would "ascend out of the bottomless pit" at some point in the future to that time. Would you agree? Please follow me carefully here because I'm building up to my point. So, since the beast would be ascending out of the bottomless pit at some later time that would mean the beast was bound in the bottomless pit at that time, right? Are you with me so far?

Now, what would cause the beast to be bound in the pit? You pointed out yourself what it says in Rev 13:2, which is that it is the dragon (Satan) who gives the beast "his power, and his seat, and great authority.". So, if the beast is bound in the pit and does not have its full power why would that be? Wouldn't it be because the one who gives it its power is also bound in the bottomless pit? That's how I see it. And if that's the case that means Satan would be bound in the pit during the same time that the beast was bound in the pit and we can see that the beast is bound in the pit before the second coming of Christ, not after. So, please let me know what you think of this line of reasoning. Thanks.

[John146]

He is definitely bound (maybe gagged? Maybe like on crime shows, he's tied up and his mouth sealed with duct tape?) and he cannot now deceive the nations AS HE DID IN THE PAST.

You see, before Christ Jesus shed his blood...there were no gentile nations where the gospel was preached. They were not even taught from the Old Testament! (In Old Testament times, only God's chosen people HEARD from God! Now and then, God showed mercy to a few Gentiles INDIVIDUALLY, like the harlot who became an ancestor to Jesus.) But, the Gentile nations...all those besides God's chosen people ...were NEVER presented the opportunity that WE HAVE to know God and to KNOW that we have the same promises as those promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

THAT, DivaD, shows how he is BOUND today! He will never be a devil in a red suit with horns and a pitchfork, handcuffed, chained and led away. It won't be that way at all. He can still send his minions, deceiving spirits, lying spirits, etc. to deceive us individually. But he cannot prevent the spread of the gospel to ALL nations!

Right. That's what the following passage is about:

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Clearly, the world changed dramatically because of the shed blood of Christ on the cross. But premils seem to think that things carried on in the world as they always had after that. But His death had a huge impact on the world and on Satan as passages like the following indicate:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

[billy-brown 2]

DivaD, I think your understanding is that the devil (or that old dragon!) is STILL deceiving people. Therefore, he can't yet be bound. Am I right? Is that your understanding?

But you see here is what is actually said about that:

Revelations 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelations 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Before Christ...satan had the power to deceive ENTIRE NATIONS! Only God's CHOSEN people could HEAR from God. All other nations could not even HEAR or UNDERSTAND. Entire nation WERE deceived!

Nations, DivaD. Not individuals. NATIONS. Of course, individual people are still deceived. Entire nations are not. They may be anti-Christ, but even THEY know of Jesus and they know of Christians. And they hate them.

Yep . . .

And I would only add in emphasis that the dragon is released to go out to deceive the nations specifically . . . to gather them together. Gather them together for what?

Well, what does the vision say?

Rev. 20:8b
. . . to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Yep.

Now, does this battle take place? Indeed, no shots are fired at all by any army; and God sends FIRE on the spot:

Rev. 20
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Yep . . .

[John146]

You are saying that "shall reign" is not being used in the future sense but the present unto the future.

That's right.

The problem is that no where else in the New Testament do the writers use the phrase "shall reign" to describe a current condition.

That is false. I'll show you that in a little bit, but first I want to respond to this:

Notice that "He shall reign forever and ever" is at the time of the rewarding of the saints and bringing judgment on the earth. Which is future...

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Why would John say here "they shall be priest" if he already had language to say "made us kings and priest" if both meant a "present condition"?

What are you saying here? That the verses which speak of saints already having been made priests of God and of Christ (Rev 1:5-6, 1 Peter 2:5-9 and Rev 5:10) are mistaken? I doubt you would say that so I'm not seeing your point here. Since believers have already been made priests of God and of Christ then why would a verse speak of that as if it could only occur in the future?

Let me point something out to you here that you may not have been aware of before. The word "shall" within the phrases "they shall be" and "shall reign" in Rev 20:6 was added by the English translators. I know the word "shall" normally would make you think that it's speaking of something that would occur at some point in the future. So, because of that I believe that verse was poorly translated. The Greek word translated as "they shall be" in Rev 20:6 is esomai. The word can be used to refer to something that will occur at some point in the future or it can be used to refer to a present and ongoing reality. Here is an example where it is used as a present and ongoing reality:

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus wasn't telling them to be perfect (holy) as the Father is perfect at some point in the future. He was telling them to do that from that point on. Wouldn't you agree?

The Greek word translated as "shall reign" in Rev 20:6 is basileuō. Again, the word can refer to someone reigning in the future or it can refer to someone currently reigning and/or continuing to reign from that point on. Here is an example where the Greek word basileuō refers to someone currently reigning:

Matt 2:19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel. 22But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:

Notice that verse 22 is not saying that Archelaus would reign in Judea at some point in the future, but that he was reigning at that time. Can you see now that your claim that "no where else in the New Testament do the writers use the phrase "shall reign" to describe a current condition" is not true? Sometimes we need some help from Hebrew and Greek lexicons to show us what the words really mean or can mean instead of just relying completely on the English translations.

[billy-brown 2]

I wouldn't see where this is helping your case out much. Especially since you said deception power. I thought that that was the reason the dragon would be bound during this time, in order to curb or eliminate deceiving? But if he is now doing that thru the beast, I don't see why that wouldn't mean he himself is still deceiving. Since the devil can't be everywhere at the same time, and the fact that folks are still deceived, that tells me that the devil works through others in order to accomplish his deceptions, like thru his angels, etc. So it would be no different if he used this beast to deceive, it would still be like he himself were doing the deceiving, since this deception power would be originating thru him. I don't understand why you all can't see the numerous contradictions to your views that I can see? And I'm certain you feel the same likewise.


So llet me ask something in general. Should anything in Rev 20 be based on logic? What I mean is, if things aren't adding up logically, couldn't that be an indication that one's understanding is a bit off? Or should logic have little to do with it? Keep in mind, I'm asking this in general, which would include all of us I would think.

LOL

Well, I feel that we should agree that Rev. 20 is indeed based on logic, but the logic has to include references to the other portions of the Bible as well as what we know already about Satan the dragon. I'm sure that we all remember that deception power never trumps the ALL authority that Jesus has--you know the ALL authority of this verse:

Matt. 28
18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. . . .

Why?

Well, because Satan the dragon does not have ALL authority--only Jesus has that. This means that specific aspects of Satan's deception power is under the complete allowance control of our God. In other words, Satan CAN do some things, and CANNOT do some other things . . . this is the nature of his binding.

Yes?

[John146]

On one hand you say that "The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her nor the voice of crying" (Isaiah 66:19) is the exact same passage as "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."(Rev 22:4). Yet Isaiah 65 says nothing of there being "no more death"...

No, it does not specifically spell that out. However, it does say in verse 19 that "the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.". What do you do with that? If we are meant to understand that there would be physical death during that time then why would there not be any weeping or crying? Would people not care and not cry over it when someone died? How do you reconcile this with your view?

I understand how it may seem to imply that it's speaking of there still being death at that time but I believe Isaiah was using language that the people could grasp and they couldn't really grasp the eternal nature of the new heavens and new earth at that point. I believe the NT illuminates the OT for us. Clearly, both Isa 65:17-25 and Rev 21:1-8 have to do with the time when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. I don't think there's any argument that can be made against that. Isaiah 65:17 establishes the context of what follows it. The verses following it must be describing conditions on the new earth. So, either the two passages contradict each other or one (or both) of them aren't saying what they may seem to be saying on the surface. If someone tries to deny that Isaiah 65:18-25 has to do with conditions on the new earth then I have to wonder whether or not Isaiah 65:17 is in their Bibles.

In fact, the passage goes to great lenghts to say there will be death in that time. I think the context is Jerusalem centric in Isaiah 65 and is referencing to God restoring joy to that nation.

Again, I understand that it may seem to say that, and yet it says there will be no weeping or crying during that time. That sounds similar to Rev 21:4 to me. I think John understood Isaiah 65:17-25 better than either of us and he specifically said that there would be no more death at the point when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, so I'm going with that.

IMO, there is simply too many details in Isaiah 65 that do not fit a eternal age context to sweep it into that camp...

Are you then denying that Isaiah 65:17-25 is speaking of the new heavens and new earth? I'm not sure how much more clear it can be that it is speaking of the new heavens and new earth:

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Will there be infants in the Eternal age?
Will there be old men in the Eternal age?
Will there be children in the Eternal age?
Will there be sinners in the Eternal age?
Will there be someone dying a 100 in the Eternal age?
Can anyone be accursed in the Eternal age?
Will people build houses in the Eternal age
Will people plant vineyards in the Eternal age
Do trees live forever... no, what about people?
Will people bear children in the Eternal Age?
Will Wolf's lambs, lions, ox and snakes exist in the eternal age?

The answer is no to all of those questions.

If all of this is symbolic, how do you know and why is Isaiah giving so many details that wont exist?

I know that because scripture never contradicts itself and if I came to the conclusions that you are drawing from that passage then I would be blatantly contradicting Revelation 21:4. Rev 65:20 says "for the child shall die an hundred years old". Tell me, is it really possible for a 100 year old to be considered a child? Even when people used to live for hundreds of years were they considered to be children when they were 100 years old? No. So, there's some strange language being used in Isaiah 65:17-25 and I think it's a mistake to take it all literally. I believe the intention at that time was to just give people a partial glimpse of what things would be like when the new heavens and new earth and then the full revelation would come later, which we see in Revelation 21.

[divaD]

Why?

Well, because Satan the dragon does not have ALL authority--only Jesus has that.

Yes, of course. And something we can both actually agree 100% on as well.

This means that specific aspects of Satan's deception power is under the complete allowance control of our God. In other words, Satan CAN do some things, and CANNOT do some other things . . . this is the nature of his binding.

Yes?

If you went with that tho, one may as well say satan has always been bound. Clearly, in the book of Job, satan couldn't do anything the LORD did not first permit. So what makes this binding in the 1000 years so different in your view?

[John146]

If you went with that tho, one may as well say satan has always been bound. Clearly, in the book of Job, satan couldn't do anything the LORD did not first permit. So what makes this binding in the 1000 years so different in your view?

What effect do you believe the death and resurrection of Christ and the preaching of the gospel of Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit had on Satan? What is your understanding of passages like these:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

[Desperaux]

DivaD, I think your understanding is that the devil (or that old dragon!) is STILL deceiving people. Therefore, he can't yet be bound. Am I right? Is that your understanding?

But you see here is what is actually said about that:

Revelations 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelations 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


Before Christ...satan had the power to deceive ENTIRE NATIONS! Only God's CHOSEN people could HEAR from God. All other nations could not even HEAR or UNDERSTAND. Entire nation WERE deceived!

Nations, DivaD. Not individuals. NATIONS. Of course, individual people are still deceived. Entire nations are not. They may be anti-Christ, but even THEY know of Jesus and they know of Christians. And they hate them.

Satan can only deceive individuals. When he deceives those who lead, he can deceive many, but he does so one by one by one, just as the Lord Jesus Christ woos each of us toward salvation on an individual basis. It seems that you are attributing far more potency to Satan's power than even Jesus Christ Himself.

[divaD]

What effect do you believe the death and resurrection of Christ and the preaching of the gospel of Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit had on Satan? What is your understanding of passages like these:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

I do see your point here, especially the way you encased some of the words in bold lettering. I would have to say that most likely there isn't anything I would disagree with you about on those. I may take a closer look at Acts 26 tho. You seem to be making an interesting point there, one that I likely haven't considered before. I'm not saying I'm not aware of the passage, I'm just saying I likely haven't considered it from your perspective

[vinsight4u8]

Jesus Christ will create Jerusalem as a joy first. This is how the area of her land wlll be for the 1000 years, then after that time is when the new heavens and earth will be created.

Isaiah 65:18
But be ye glad...which I create...I create Jerusalem...

----------People can still die then, so the new heavens and the new earth time is not yet.