Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[billy-brown 2]

Of course I believe Jesus is God, so that wouldn't be the point as why I believe Rev 20:9 is likely speaking of the Father, and not Jesus.

Here's how the KJV translates one of your passages.


1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.


Notice that it says..even in his Son Jesus Christ. Notice the 'his' there. That would have to be referring to the true God, which is meaning the Father.

So that verse should be understood like this.

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know THE FATHER that is true, and we are in THE FATHER that is true, even in (his...meaning THE FATHER) Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Ah yes, the KJV . . . That's OK; here are several translations of I John 5:20 below:

New International Version (©1984)
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
New Living Translation (©2007)
And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God. And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, and he is eternal life.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
International Standard Version (©2008)
We also know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true God. We are in union with the one who is true, his Son Jesus the Messiah, who is the true God and eternal life.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And we know that The Son of God has come and he has given us a mind to know The True One and to be in The True One- in his Son, Yeshua The Messiah. This One is The True God and The Life Eternal.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
American King James Version
And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
American Standard Version
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Bible in Basic English
And we are certain that the Son of God has come, and has given us a clear vision, so that we may see him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And we know that the Son of God is come: and he hath given us understanding that we may know the true God, and may be in his true Son. This is the true God and life eternal.
Darby Bible Translation
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
English Revised Version
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Webster's Bible Translation
And we know that the Son of God hath come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Weymouth New Testament
And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we know the true One, and are in union with the true One--that is, we are in union with His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and the Life of the Ages.
World English Bible
We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding, that we know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Young's Literal Translation
and we have known that the Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ; this one is the true God and the life age-during!

As you can see, a lot of translations favor the notion that Jesus is the true God and life eternal. And of course, we have this additional passage also:

Isa. 9
6For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

7There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

Now, I have underlined the KJV of the verse that you are referring to in your last post (I John 5:20); it seems interesting to note that the translators felt that the word "even" needed to be added there--do you know why that was needed? (I don't have a clue . . . )

[John146]

Are you basing that on verse 9?

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


This says that fire came down from God, meaning the Father. I don't think you're going to find any place in the NT, where 'God' is used, that it's not referring to the Father. I thought that it was the Son who comes again, and not the Father, being that the Son has already been here once.

The Father will send the Son so in that sense the fire will be coming from the Father even though it's obviously Christ that will be coming down from heaven. Or, it could very well be that it's referring to Jesus Himself since He is God, as Billy is talking about. So, if you're going to try to argue that Rev 20:9 can't be speaking of Christ's coming because it's only talking about the Father there then I think that's a pretty weak argument.

[Desperaux]

(this is the continuation of the last post . . .)



Rev. 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev. 19
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.



Well, this means that there must be two gatherings (or assemblings) for "the war"--maybe you could explain how that would be possible in so much that Christ returns ONCE only (which we both agree on, yes?) . . .

(go to the next post . . .)

The enemies of Christ, and the Antichrist's armies will try to kill Him when they see Him coming in the skies, but he will wipe them out, and cast the beast and the false prophet into the LOF, and Satan is chained in a pit. Jesus will then establish His earthly reign. At the end of His earthly reign, Satan is loosed from his pit and he is then able to influence the people to do evil and tries to defeat King Jesus with earthly forces.

Why you think that this means that Jesus comes twice is beyond me. He is already here during the second revolt.

[billy-brown 2]

The enemies of Christ, and the Antichrist's armies will try to kill Him when they see Him coming in the skies, but he will wipe them out, and cast the beast and the false prophet into the LOF, and Satan is chained in a pit.

But here is one of the "flies in the ointment" below (so to speak) . . .

1) Rev. 19:19-21 indicates that the beast and the false prophet are tossed in the lake of fire, and the rest are killed; these would be the beast, the kings of the earth, and the armies assembled to battle, yes? This would mean that there would be NO ONE around for another "war" later on.

In other words, there is only ONE "assembling for war" indeed in the verses below--and "Him that sits on the horse" does the killing of "the rest" on the spot without a shot being fired by anyone at all:

Rev. 19
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

2) And so, when we get to Rev. 20:7-10, we see that there are nations deceived to gather together for "the war"--and they are all devoured by FIRE from heaven without a shot being fired by anyone:

Rev. 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now, where did these deceived nations come from in Rev. 20; I mean, Rev. 19:21 had indicated already that "the rest" (ALL of the rest) were killed and were eaten already by birds; NO ONE is around at all already.

Thus, I have been suggesting that Rev. 20:7-10 and Rev. 19:19-21 are recapitulative. And the fire which "came down from heaven" in Rev. 20:9 came from Christ Jesus--as implied here also:

II Thess. 1
6For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
7and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
8dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

(go to the next post . . .)

[billy-brown 2]

This is the continuation of the last post . . .)

This brings us to the following:

Jesus will then establish His earthly reign.

At the end of His earthly reign, Satan is loosed from his pit and he is then able to influence the people to do evil and tries to defeat King Jesus with earthly forces.

Why you think that this means that Jesus comes twice is beyond me. He is already here during the second revolt.

Well, we both agree that Jesus comes ONCE--the second time. Amen.

And so, the notion that "Jesus will then establish His earthly reign" is very important to your explanations and so on. Therefore, this is the reason I asked the following in a previous post (see below):

And so, a question: What kind of Kingdom would this be; you know, where you say that Jesus would "govern the earth from Jerusalem" and so on? Did not Jesus say the following already?

John 18
36Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

And therefore, notice what Pilate said:

John 18
37aTherefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?”

And notice what Jesus said:

John 18
37b . . . Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

[quiet dove]

.................................................. ...........

[Desperaux]

But here is one of the "flies in the ointment" below (so to speak) . . .

1) Rev. 19:19-21 indicates that the beast and the false prophet are tossed in the lake of fire, and the rest are killed; these would be the beast, the kings of the earth, and the armies assembled to battle, yes? This would mean that there would be NO ONE around for another "war" later on.

Where do you deduce that from? In a thousand years people can reproduce a lot! Do you think that every man, woman and child on earth when Jesus comes back is going to be the enemy of God?

In other words, there is only ONE "assembling for war" indeed in the verses below--and "Him that sits on the horse" does the killing of "the rest" on the spot without a shot being fired by anyone at all:



2) And so, when we get to Rev. 20:7-10, we see that there are nations deceived to gather together for "the war"--and they are all devoured by FIRE from heaven without a shot being fired by anyone:

Yep.

Now, where did these deceived nations come from in Rev. 20; I mean, Rev. 19:21 had indicated already that "the rest" (ALL of the rest) were killed and were eaten already by birds; NO ONE is around at all already.

They come from the nations that will repopulate the Earth under the rule of Jesus and His saints.

Thus, I have been suggesting that Rev. 20:7-10 and Rev. 19:19-21 are recapitulative. And the fire which "came down from heaven" in Rev. 20:9 came from Christ Jesus--as implied here also:

Well, you are wrong. Jesus will not be in heaven at that time, but will be on Earth. That particular fire comes from the Father Himself.

[divaD]

The Father will send the Son so in that sense the fire will be coming from the Father even though it's obviously Christ that will be coming down from heaven. Or, it could very well be that it's referring to Jesus Himself since He is God, as Billy is talking about. So, if you're going to try to argue that Rev 20:9 can't be speaking of Christ's coming because it's only talking about the Father there then I think that's a pretty weak argument.

I hear you. That sounds reasonable that it's a weak argument. I guess I better find a better argument somewhere then, after all BillyBrown2 is pretty sharp. But it's not about winning or losing the argument so much, it's about getting to the truth. As far as this subject, there's a lot I agree with you guys about. There's a lot I think you all
are probably correct about, but still, I can't let go, because I don't see any of you using the OT in unison with the NT. You all seem to be deriving your understandings strictly thru the NT. I would think both were needed. I agree tho, the NT brings light to the OT, but at the same time, the OT is containing a whole of lot details about events that the NT is leaving out. Look at the abomination of desolation that Jesus is referring to. Doesn't one really need to go to Daniel to see what's going on there more clearly? So why didn't the NT bring light to that, where one didn't even need to go back to Daniel? And why did Jesus tell us to go back to Daniel if He were bringing light to the subject, not that He didn't bring light to it?

[billy-brown 2]

Where do you deduce that from? In a thousand years people can reproduce a lot! Do you think that every man, woman and child on earth when Jesus comes back is going to be the enemy of God?

Well, I deduce that from these passages below: I), II), and III)--let's break them up and look at them closely:

I)

Rev. 19
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies

assembled to make war against

Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

In other words, this is an assembling to make war only--no one fires a shot at all except "Him that sat on the Horse"--that would be Christ Jesus.

And so, here is the rest of it:

II)

Rev. 19
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image;

these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

Yep.

Indeed, this does not leave anyone around to populate anything. And the following passage confirms this truth:

III)

Rev. 19
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God,

18so that you may eat

the flesh of kings and
the flesh of commanders and
the flesh of mighty men and
the flesh of horses and
of those who sit on them and
the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

Yep. That's EVERYBODY--no one is left around to populate anything at all--they were eaten by birds after they were killed and so on.

Do you see what I mean? (I hope you can see where I am coming from . . .)

(go to the next post . . .)

[billy-brown 2]

(This is the continuation of the last post . . .)

They come from the nations that will repopulate the Earth under the rule of Jesus and His saints.

Well, you are wrong. Jesus will not be in heaven at that time, but will be on Earth. That particular fire comes from the Father Himself.

Well, I might be wrong; yes, indeed.

I mean, the notion that Jesus will be on the earth and so on is so very important to your synthesis and so on.

However, it takes two to repopulate; who will be around to do that?

According to the scriptures from Rev. 19 in the last post, the answer seems to be NO ONE.

And so, we all have to find out how repopulation will occur when NO ONE is around to repopulate.

(And you have agreed that the "millennium" has mortals in it.)

And also, Jesus is High Priest FOREVER already--and in accordance to this confluence of verses:

Heb. 7
15And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,

16who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.

17For it is attested of Him,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”

Heb. 8
1Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

2a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

3For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.

4Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;

5who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “SEE,” He says, “THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN.”

6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

Now, I can't imagine that Jesus would give up a FOREVER Immortal High priesthood to come to earth where DEATH would be (the "millennium" contains death); this is what you seem to be suggesting with this:

They come from the nations that will repopulate the Earth under the rule of Jesus and His saints.

Well, you are wrong. Jesus will not be in heaven at that time, but will be on Earth. . . .

And is Jesus' kingdom of this geo-political earth system at all? What does Luke 17:20-21 indicate below?

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Yep.

Now, it is clear here that the Pharisees did not like Jesus at all. (We do know that, yes?)

Nevertheless, we know that the Pharisees were looking for Jesus to institute a geo-political Kingdom that would overthrow the Roman government of those days. And this is the reason that they "demanded" that Jesus tell them when the Kingdom of God would come. After all, they felt pridefully that they--as the leaders in Jerusalem--"deserved" to have authority over Rome and so on.

Therefore, Jesus told the Pharisees that the Kingdom of God does not come in that manner at all. Why?

Well, because the Kingdom of God is not of this geo-political world concept at all--it expresses itself specifically through spiritual AUTHORITY and POWER--as taught below:

Luke 11
14And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed.
15But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.”
16Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven.
17But He knew their thoughts and said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.
18“If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.
19“And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges.
20“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

And therefore, it seems clear that Jesus is indicating to the Pharisees that the Kingdom of God was in the "midst" of the Pharisees--because Jesus the KING was there among them. Thus, the Kingdom of God does not come in the "observation" of geo-political governments ( with "Lo here" or "Lo there" aspects) and the like.

However, we know that the Pharisees had rejected Jesus as KING already--in no uncertain terms; they were indeed plotting His eventual death and so on.

Yes?

[vinsight4u8]

Jesus Christ comes this next time as wearng one crown.
at Armgeddon - He will come from heaven as the Rider-wearing many crowns.

[Saved7]

This verse is talking of a time 1000 years after the return of the Messiah Jesus. satan is not in any bottomless pit now and will not be until the Messiah returns.




Now this scripture is talking of the time before the return of the Messiah Jesus.





Yep that’s what is happening now.





Yes this is what is going to happen after the return of the Messiah Jesus, just after the battle of Armageddon. satan will be cast into the bottomless pit but he will be released after 1000 years.





Satan has never been in the above "little prison"

I hope and am strongly convinced that we shall see satan being cast into this prison soon. I give it 20 years.

Of course satan has had people deceived since the time of Jesus up till the present day. There has been no 1000 years when he has not been deceiving people a simple look at history can show one that.

It will be at lest another 1000 years before this "short season" starts


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I have to agree here, I think that the only person who is in the bottomless pit is "Abaddon/Apollyon" and I think he is a completely different person from satan, and he is the one who ascends out of the bottomless pit...because we see him as the king of the locusts that come out of the bottomless pit in the sounding of the 5th trumpet.

Rev9:11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

The question I ask myself though, is "is this the angel that has the key? Is this satan, because he destroys? Or is this literally an angel that was in the bottomless pit, whose name is apollyon? There is an angel that is called a destroying angel that went through and killed all the first born of egypt, and he is never given a name....it's just assumed who he is, and I wonder if our assumptions are right." I think this angel is actually in the bottomless pit and is the same one that went through the land of egypt, and is not satan.

[Desperaux]

Jesus Christ comes this next time as wearng one crown.
at Armgeddon - He will come from heaven as the Rider-wearing many crowns.

Jesus comes only once, riding and with His saints, and He will be wearing many crowns because we will have thrown them at His beautiful feet.

[divaD]

There is an angel that is called a destroying angel that went through and killed all the first born of egypt, and he is never given a name....it's just assumed who he is, and I wonder if our assumptions are right." I think this angel is actually in the bottomless pit and is the same one that went through the land of egypt, and is not satan.

So why would that destroying angel be sent to the pit for doing something that was God's idea to begin with? Wasn't it God who wanted all of the first born of Egypt killed? Granted, I haven't looked at that passage in quite sometime, so maybe there's some details that I'm not recalling.

[divaD]

Jesus comes only once, riding and with His saints, and He will be wearing many crowns because we will have thrown them at His beautiful feet.

If there's a pretrib rapture before that time, that doesn't add up to coming only once, does it?