Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[Desperaux]

The destroying angel in Egypt was a messenger of God doing God's bidding, but Abaddon or Apollyon is either Satan himself or a high-ranking demon henchman, which is my choice.

Edit:

I just read that portion in Revelation again and changed my mind! I had thought all along that Abaddon is an evil spirit, because I know a person who was delivered of a powerful demon who gave his name as "Destroyer", and concluded then that this angel in Revelation 9:10 was a demon of Satan, but now I have a fresher understanding that this is an angel of judgment that God will use, among many others, to hand down judgments on the wicked, and passing over those who were sealed by God.

What tipped me off was that these locust-beings have what resembles crowns of gold on their heads, and I know that when gold is used in scripture, it mostly refers to God. These beings are fulfilling God's commands of judgment, just as the angel of death went about the land of Egypt snuffing out the lives of the firstborn males, and passing over those families of Jews who had the lamb's blood on their doors.

Thank you for bringing this up, Saved7!

[Saved7]

So why would that destroying angel be sent to the pit for doing something that was God's idea to begin with? Wasn't it God who wanted all of the first born of Egypt killed? Granted, I haven't looked at that passage in quite sometime, so maybe there's some details that I'm not recalling.

That's why I question even my own logic. However, I have to ask myself this these questions, was it not God who hardened Pharaoh's heart? Is it not God who sets up kings, and is it not God who sends them to destroy God's people? Yet God punishes them for it, so maybe this is such a thing.

[Saved7]

The destroying angel in Egypt was a messenger of God doing God's bidding, but Abaddon or Apollyon is either Satan himself or a high-ranking demon henchman, which is my choice.

high ranking henchman is possible as well. Though I do not call fallen angels demons, I think demons are a completely different thing, because over and over we see fallen angels referred to as "angels" not demons. Demons never seem to have any really connecting scriptures to "fallen angles"...not sure how to explain that, but in other words, we don't see any scriptures that state an angel is also called a demon....where as for example, satan is clearly labeled many things, and there are scriptures that tie those titles together with lucifer, the serpent, the dragon and so on. Anyway, I believe demons are "unclean spirits" that came from the mating of angels with women back in the days of Noah, and admittedly there are no clear scriptures that make that link either, accept that they are unclean spirits. However, that's really neither here nor there in this conversation.

[Desperaux]

If there's a pretrib rapture before that time, that doesn't add up to coming only once, does it?

Anyone who is pre-trib doesn't consider the catching away of the Bride as the Lord's literal return. When He returns, we, His saints will come with Him, ready to rule and reign.

[Desperaux]

high ranking henchman is possible as well. Though I do not call fallen angels demons, I think demons are a completely different thing, because over and over we see fallen angels referred to as "angels" not demons. Demons never seem to have any really connecting scriptures to "fallen angles"...not sure how to explain that, but in other words, we don't see any scriptures that state an angel is also called a demon....where as for example, satan is clearly labeled many things, and there are scriptures that tie those titles together with lucifer, the serpent, the dragon and so on. Anyway, I believe demons are "unclean spirits" that came from the mating of angels with women back in the days of Noah, and admittedly there are no clear scriptures that make that link either, accept that they are unclean spirits. However, that's really neither here nor there in this conversation.

Demons are indeed fallen angels, and the terms are used interchangeably. Angels do not mate with human beings.

[Saved7]

Demons are indeed fallen angels, and the terms are used interchangeably. Angels do not mate with human beings.

Can you show me the scriptures that you found that link demons to being fallen angels? I haven't ever seen such links....if you know where they are, that would be appreciated.

[divaD]

That's why I question even my own logic. However, I have to ask myself this these questions, was it not God who hardened Pharaoh's heart? Is it not God who sets up kings, and is it not God who sends them to destroy God's people? Yet God punishes them for it, so maybe this is such a thing.

You employ pretty good logic IMO. I can certainly see how you're reasoning all of that. So with that in mind, You give me yet something else to ponder about.

[Saved7]

You employ pretty good logic IMO. I can certainly see how you're reasoning all of that. So with that in mind, You give me yet something else to ponder about.

Thanks. I tend to ask questions about even the logic and answers I come to until I finally am left with no questions...still have a lot of them.

[divaD]

Angels do not mate with human beings.

Well if they do, then I'm pretty sure Jesus would have mentioned it. Or Paul would have mentioned it. Or least somebody in the NT would have mentioned it anyway, since the NT oftentimes brings light to things hidden within the OT. We know that denom possession happens. Jesus dealt with that quite a few times. But I don't ever recall Him dealing with angels that were mating with human beings, nor even suggesting such a possibility. Clearly then, at least to me, a lot of folks are likely misinterpreting Genesis 6 when they're concluding that such a thing literally occurred. Now of course, we're getting off topic big time now. So maybe I better get back on track.

[Saved7]

Well if they do, then I'm pretty sure Jesus would have mentioned it. Or Paul would have mentioned it. Or least somebody in the NT would have mentioned it anyway, since the NT oftentimes brings light to things hidden within the OT. We know that denom possession happens. Jesus dealt with that quite a few times. But I don't ever recall Him dealing with angels that were mating with human beings, nor even suggesting such a possibility. Clearly then, at least to me, a lot of folks are likely misinterpreting Genesis 6 when they're concluding that such a thing literally occurred. Now of course, we're getting off topic big time now. So maybe I better get back on track.

You're right, I just threw this thread off completely, but those of us who do think that angels mated with humans was mentioned, however indirectly, in the NT. IN the book of Jude, where they are said to have left their "first estate". For what cause? What is an estate? What was their FIRST estate? Is that about the rebellion? Or has that not happened yet? Could it be that the "estate" spoken of is the spiritual realm for the physical? Why is there never a mention of "sons of God" when Israel is spoken of, yet we see that "sons of God" are mentioned in Job, and we know they are angels? This is really the only link in the OT to sons of God being anyone but angels, and the NT isn't exactly open about the subject, though we know that the book of Enoch, though not included in the NT is actually quoted in the NT, and the book of Enoch declares that angels mated with human women. The belief was in existence even then, so there MAY be some truth there. And since there is no other thing in the Bible that clarifies who those sons of God are in Gen 6, it leaves one thinking that possibly there is really only one option, angels. Of course I could be wrong on this, but considering there are so many things we don't understand, I sure don't doubt the possibility.

Anyway, I'll leave it there now, because I don't want to sidetrack this thread any further.

[Saved7]

The destroying angel in Egypt was a messenger of God doing God's bidding, but Abaddon or Apollyon is either Satan himself or a high-ranking demon henchman, which is my choice.

Edit:

I just read that portion in Revelation again and changed my mind! I had thought all along that Abaddon is an evil spirit, because I know a person who was delivered of a powerful demon who gave his name as "Destroyer", and concluded then that this angel in Revelation 9:10 was a demon of Satan, but now I have a fresher understanding that this is an angel of judgment that God will use, among many others, to hand down judgments on the wicked, and passing over those who were sealed by God.

What tipped me off was that these locust-beings have what resembles crowns of gold on their heads, and I know that when gold is used in scripture, it mostly refers to God. These beings are fulfilling God's commands of judgment, just as the angel of death went about the land of Egypt snuffing out the lives of the firstborn males, and passing over those families of Jews who had the lamb's blood on their doors.

Thank you for bringing this up, Saved7!

hmm, those crowns of gold, are a good point to consider. Thank YOU.

[Desperaux]

Can you show me the scriptures that you found that link demons to being fallen angels? I haven't ever seen such links....if you know where they are, that would be appreciated.

Use logic here as well. As Satan is called the Prince of demons in Matthew 12, and he and the horde of angels who followed after his leading in a heavenly rebellion have fallen, it stands to reason that the fallen angels, including Satan are all demons.

Just as there are all manner of ranks of angels, so are there all manner of ranks of demons. Some are strong archangels, and others are imps that do the dirty grunt work of Satan. None can match the mighty power and authority that we have in Jesus Christ, however. In fact, with Jesus, all are little imps.

[Saved7]

Use logic here as well. As Satan is called the Prince of demons in Matthew 12, and he and the horde of angels who followed after his leading in a heavenly rebellion have fallen, it stands to reason that the fallen angels, including Satan are all demons.

Just as there are all manner of ranks of angels, so are there all manner of ranks of demons. Some are strong archangels, and others are imps that do the dirty grunt work of Satan. None can match the mighty power and authority that we have in Jesus Christ, however. In fact, with Jesus, all are little imps.

Are you talking about this?

Matthew 12:24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

I can see how you make that link. I always thought "beelzebub" was a "lord" or false god that was worshipped by other nations, and that false god was not necessarily the equivalent of satan, but just the name of a demon, the leader of demons. I just never made that link, worth considering, thanks.

[billy-brown 2]

Jesus will have come on a horse a thousand years before that, along with His saints. There is no post-millennial coming.

The text above is explicit in its declaration that Jesus comes on a horse, and that this coming is not post-millennial and so on.

And so, some investigation of this seems to be in order . . . first let's go to this passage:

II Thess. 1
6For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you,
7and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
8dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

Now, there are two groups of people here in II Thess. 1: "those who do not know God" and "His saints". This would indeed equate to the "tares" and the "wheat" of Matthew 13. And in that parable, Jesus indicated that the "end of the age" is WHEN "harvest time" occurs.

Therefore, the "glorification" of His saints occurs on the same day as the "revealing of Christ from heaven WITH Fire--even at the end of this current age.

Yep.

And the FIRE expressed in II Thess 1:7 is the SAME FIRE which caused the burning in this passage:

2 Pet. 3
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

Yep.

And when we would expect Peter to mention as an expectation the "1000 year" reign of Christ on earth, he doesn't do that in fact--take a look at it:

2 Pet. 3
13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Thus, Peter is looking forward to an age which WILL NOT CONTAIN DEATH. And of course, it is the "first heavens and first earth" which contains death--as is the case with the "1000 years" as well:

Rev. 21
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

Rev. 20
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Yep.

And so, we can come to the verses of the OP yet again:

Rev. 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yep.

Now, the FIRE in the passage above--which comes from heaven--occurs AFTER the thousand years, and death occurs thereby for ALL the deceived nations--no one is left at all. Indeed, it is the DAY OF THE LORD--the war of the great day of God. And notice the (second) coming of Christ is indicated in Rev. 16:15 as well--as a parenthetical insert:

Rev. 16
13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

And so, "the war" of the great day of God in Rev. 16 is the same as "the war" mentioned in Rev. 20:8. And this happens AFTER the "1000 years" indeed.

Thus, the coming of Christ mentioned in Rev. 16:15 is a "postmillennial" coming . . .

[Desperaux]

The text above is explicit in its declaration that Jesus comes on a horse, and that this coming is not post-millennial and so on.

Exactly!

Now, there are two groups of people here in II Thess. 1: "those who do not know God" and "His saints". This would indeed equate to the "tares" and the "wheat" of Matthew 13. And in that parable, Jesus indicated that the "end of the age" is WHEN "harvest time" occurs.

Therefore, the "glorification" of His saints occurs on the same day as the "revealing of Christ from heaven WITH Fire--even at the end of this current age.

No. The glorification of the saints takes place when the bridegroom takes His Bride away---at the Rapture. Your choice of scripture refers to only those who are mortal and believe---they will marvel.

And the FIRE expressed in II Thess 1:7 is the SAME FIRE which caused the burning in this passage:

It may be the same kind of fire, but it isn't the same occasion, nor the same source.

And when we would expect Peter to mention as an expectation the "1000 year" reign of Christ on earth, he doesn't do that in fact--take a look at it:

His revelation isn't as complete as John's. You need to take the whole word into account.

Thus, Peter is looking forward to an age which WILL NOT CONTAIN DEATH. And of course, it is the "first heavens and first earth" which contains death--as is the case with the "1000 years" as well:

Peter was looking beyond the Millennium! Why is that so hard to discern?

And so, we can come to the verses of the OP yet again:


Now, the FIRE in the passage above--which comes from heaven--occurs AFTER the thousand years, and death occurs thereby for ALL the deceived nations--no one is left at all. Indeed, it is the DAY OF THE LORD--the war of the great day of God. And notice the (second) coming of Christ is indicated in Rev. 16:15 as well--as a parenthetical insert:


And so, "the war" of the great day of God in Rev. 16 is the same as "the war" mentioned in Rev. 20:8. And this happens AFTER the "1000 years" indeed.

Thus, the coming of Christ mentioned in Rev. 16:15 is a "postmillennial" coming . . .

That is false. Jesus comes before the Millennium. It seems you have a set viewpoint and cannot budge on it. Never mind that Armageddon takes place just before the Lord's return and before the Millennium, as alluded to in Revelation 16! And never mind the fact that the beast and the false prophet aren't anywhere near the earth or its inhabitants in Rev. 20!

These are two separate uprisings!