Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[Desperaux]

You were talking about people missing the rapture when Christ returns and living on through the Great tribulation instead. What I'd like to know is who among those that Christ will take vengeance upon at His return will continue to live on during a "Great Tribulation"?

2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

This describes His return at which time He will take vengeance on all those who don't know God and don't obey the gospel of Christ. Knowing that believers will be changed and caught up to Christ at that point, what mortals does that leave to go on living during a "Great Tribulation" rather than either being caught up to Christ or suffering His wrath? I can see it now. You would try to say that 2 Thess 1:7-10 is not speaking of the same event as 1 Thess 4:14-17 despite the fact that both speak of His return. When else will He "come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe" except at the time when He returns and all His people are caught up to Him?

When Jesus comes He will judge the sheep and the goats, the survivors of Tribulation, determining who will comprise the nations we are to govern for that Millennial period.

[Desperaux]

Sorry, but that's not what scripture says.

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul said that this is describing "the coming of the Lord". You say it is not describing the coming of the Lord. Who should I believe?

Believe God and His precious word, like I do.

[billy-brown 2]

Where does it ever say or imply that anyone is beheaded during the 1000 years? Where are you getting that idea from?

That's an unreasonable conclusion. In order for there to be a rest of the dead who do not live again until, that infers that there has to be a rest of the dead that do indeed live again now, meaning at the beginning of the 1000 years, meaning these that were beheaded, etc.

divaD,

One of the things that continues to "trip us all up" apropos "the thousand years" is a misunderstanding of this verse:

Rev. 20
5 But the rest . . . of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Yep.

. . . the rest of them . . the rest of the DEAD . . .

In other words, Rev. 20:5 indicates grammatically that Rev. 20:4 deals with DEAD people . . . let that sink in:

Rev. 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Yep.

In other words, the individuals in bold in Rev. 20: 4 above are DEAD physically.

And so, John sees the souls of DEAD people--that the souls of DEAD people are living and reigning. However, these are still DEAD people physically. Why?

Because Rev. 20:5 indicates that the first group of DEAD people are NOT the only DEAD people that John saw--John saw the rest of them also.

. . . the rest . . . of the DEAD.

Let that sink in . . .

. . . the rest of them . . .

So, this means that all DEAD people physically are awaiting physical resurrection--just like you and I are, yes? And there is only ONE physical resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked:

Acts 24
14“But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
15having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Therefore, the lake of fire is future from now, and is awaiting the rest of the DEAD only. And the rest of the DEAD do not come alive physically until the thousand years are over, yes? This means that the same is true of the beheaded SAINTS; remember, they are still DEAD physically as well--and during the thousand years.

(. . . the rest . . . of the DEAD . . .)

But the beheaded DEAD are not awaiting the lake of fire; why?

Well, because of this verse:

Rev. 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And the lake of fire is the second death, yes?

Thus, the first resurrection is not physical . . .

[billy-brown 2]

Do you think Jesus comes back more than once?

Here are the scriptures again; which of these passages deal with Jesus "com(ing) back to Earth only one time"?

I Thess 4
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Rev. 16
13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

. . . just wondering . . .

Well, Jesus comes back one time--and per these verses. And He does not come to the earth in these passages at all . . .

Do you believe it?

[Desperaux]

Well, Jesus comes back one time--and per these verses. And He does not come to the earth in these passages at all . . .

Do you believe it?

Jesus doesn't set foot on Earth in your first reference, but He comes to Earth in the second. You don't believe it, however.

[quiet dove]

Mode note: With the different views being discussed that disagreement does not equate to ignoring, not believing or otherwise not accepting scripture. It means that we all have our perception and understanding and we are sincere and as honest as we can be. It is not a matter of refusing to see, it is a matter of seeing it differently.

Our priority should be a peaceful tone with each other even though we disagree, in hopes of producing a more constructive outcome and hopefully fuller understanding and of course a deeper relationship with the Lord.

[billy-brown 2]

Saints,

Can anybody answer a question apropos "the war" of the verses below: how many "the war(s)" are there in these passages?

Rev. 16
13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Rev. 20 (from the OP!)
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[John 8:32]

Saints,

Can anybody answer a question apropos "the war" of the verses below: how many "the war(s)" are there in these passages?

Rev. 16
13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Rev. 20 (from the OP!)
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

2

(15 characters)

[quiet dove]

Saints,

Can anybody answer a question apropos "the war" of the verses below: how many "the war(s)" are there in these passages?

Rev. 16
13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Rev. 20 (from the OP!)
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

two...................

[divaD]

Saints,

Can anybody answer a question apropos "the war" of the verses below: how many "the war(s)" are there in these passages?

Rev. 16
13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Rev. 20 (from the OP!)
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

and the beloved city. What would you conclude that is referring to? I myself would think it has to be meaning the new Jerusalem in Rev 21-22. I would think this is the key to unlocking when the 1000 years takes place, by defining what this beloved city is referring to. The fact that saints are camped within, we know it can't be talking about Jerusalem over in the middle east as we now know it, being that that nation is pretty much in disbelief. If we throw Zech 14 in the mix, that battle literally involves the literal city of Jerusalem under attack and the Lord doing battle in the end. That's different from what we see here. This beloved city has saints camped within. The Jerusalem in Zech 14 would not yet contain saints, because they have to first come with the LORD to this battle. But still, the Jews are God's chosen people, and He will choose to fight for them, even tho the nation would still be unbelief at the time.

[John 8:32]

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

and the beloved city. What would you conclude that is referring to?

The beloved city is Jerusalem. The present day Jerusalem is beloved of God. This is not referring to New Jerusalem, it only comes down out of heaven after Rev 20 is complete and the earth has been purified and the Father brings it to earth and fulfills...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This is just after...

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

[divaD]

The beloved city is Jerusalem. The present day Jerusalem is beloved of God.

Here's what the text says, regardless Jerusalem the literal city is beloved of God.

Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

and compassed the camp of the saints about. If you are correct, then that infers that present day Jerusalem is comprised of all saints. That nation is still in unbelief for the most part. Only believers can be thought of as saints, not unbelievers.

[John 8:32]

divaD,

One of the things that continues to "trip us all up" apropos "the thousand years" is a misunderstanding of this verse:



Yep.

. . . the rest of them . . the rest of the DEAD . . .

In other words, Rev. 20:5 indicates grammatically that Rev. 20:4 deals with DEAD people . . . let that sink in:

I just gotta ask, what are they then, zombies? They are dead people that are brought back to life by a resurrection. They have not been judged yet so they are not condemned to death or given eternal life. They are just dead people resurrected to life.

[John146]

The Rapture isn't a coming of the Lord. It is a going of the Bride.

Paul says otherwise.

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[John146]

Believe God and His precious word, like I do.

Are you saying that I don't believe God and His precious word? That gives the impression that you think I don't believe His word is true. It's one thing to mistakenly misinterpret His word but to imply that someone is purposely not believing Him and His word is over the line. You say that 1 Thess 4:14-17 is not about the coming of the Lord and yet Paul specifically says it is about the coming of the Lord in verse 15. How can you read verse 15 and see his plain reference to "the coming of the Lord" and conclude that what Paul is talking about in 1 Thess 4:14-17 is not "the coming of the Lord"?