Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[billy-brown 2]

Not if it hasn't happened.



I don't have a problem if the entire scripture isn't yet fulfilled. Why would you?



Just like any other scripture, IMO, if all of it is fulfilled then it is as it says. If not then, perhaps, the reference had nothing to do with the past at all, or, there may be another execution of the scripture that fulfills all.

I hear what you are saying . . . However . . . I feel that you should have a problem if the "entire scripture isn't yet fulfilled" and so on. Why?

Well, because Jesus is telling John to write to the angel of the church of Smyrna--to THEM.

Yep.

After all, just look at the grammar of Rev. 2:10:

Rev. 2
10‘Do not fear what

you

are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of

you

into prison, so that

you

will be tested, and

you

will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give

you

the crown of life.

Yes?

[dan]

I hear what you are saying . . . However . . . I feel that you should have a problem if the "entire scripture isn't yet fulfilled" and so on. Why?

Well, because Jesus is telling John to write to the angel of the church of Smyrna--to THEM.

Yep.

After all, just look at the grammar of Rev. 2:10:

Rev. 2
10‘Do not fear what

you

are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of

you

into prison, so that

you

will be tested, and

you

will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give

you

the crown of life.

Yes?

But Christians are being persecuted again in Turkey, can't this be the event spoken of in scripture? Most especially, if they are made to suffer for ten days before they are killed?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/in...xpected-70472/

[billy-brown 2]

But Christians are being persecuted again in Turkey, can't this be the event spoken of in scripture? Most especially, if they are made to suffer for ten days before they are killed?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/in...xpected-70472/

Well, it can be an example of this passage in scripture:

Rev. 12
17So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

But Jesus was talking to the angel of the church of Smyrna--to THEM--in the applicable verses:

Rev. 2
10‘Do not fear what

you

are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of

you

into prison, so that

you

will be tested, and

you

will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give

you

the crown of life.

Yes?

[dan]

Well, it can be an example of this passage in scripture:

But Jesus was talking to the angel of the church of Smyrna--to THEM--in the applicable verses:

Yes?

If they had tribulation for ten days prior to their deaths, then, yes.

[Buddy]

The Lord is speaking to His church ..... in the first century, and to His church today in Revelation 2 and 3

The churches of Asia Minor were used as examples and He evaluates the positives and the negatives of each .... individual churches [denominations] have the same set of characteristics today

He would say the same about His church today ... and when He is ready He will intervene and those who belong to Him will be called out and made immortal ... the rest will go into the tribulation of His wrath and judgment [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 3:15-19]

.... and Satan will come to the earth deceiving and killing for a shorth time [Revelation 12:12]

He will then be captured and held in the abyss so that he cannot deceive those of the nations who survive the tribulation of those days .... but he will be released again at then end of 1000 years to cause another human rebellion against the Lord [Revelation 20]

[billy-brown 2]

The Lord is speaking to His church ..... in the first century, and to His church today in Revelation 2 and 3

The churches of Asia Minor were used as examples and He evaluates the positives and the negatives of each .... individual churches [denominations] have the same set of characteristics today

He would say the same about His church today ... and when He is ready He will intervene and those who belong to Him will be called out and made immortal ... the rest will go into the tribulation of His wrath and judgment [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:10; 3:15-19]

.... and Satan will come to the earth deceiving and killing for a shorth time [Revelation 12:12]

He will then be captured and held in the abyss so that he cannot deceive those of the nations who survive the tribulation of those days .... but he will be released again at then end of 1000 years to cause another human rebellion against the Lord [Revelation 20]

Buddy,

Our Saviour Jesus mentioned that there are only 2 kinds of people: good and bad. Notice the following parable:

Matt. 13
47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;

48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.

49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And notice that the "good" and "bad" are gathered at the same time; also, the "bad" are taken out from among the "good" and so on. In other words, harvest time is at the end of this current age, and will include ALL people:

Matt. 13
37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,

38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

And so, Satan is released (in deceiving the nations) so as to be thrown in the furnace of fire along with the wicked:

Rev. 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yes?

[Buddy]

Your time frames are skewed

[Diggindeeper]

Your time frames are skewed

Says YOU.
Please tell us how his time frames are skewed. I say HIS are right on target Biblically.

[Buddy]

I already have

And I believe that his exegesis is unsupported by the prophetic scriptures

So we have to very different interpretations of the same

All will be revealed in the Lord's timing

[Diggindeeper]

I already have

And I believe that his exegesis is unsupported by the prophetic scriptures

So we have to very different interpretations of the same

All will be revealed in the Lord's timing

I don't agree at all. For one thing, consider this:
Revelation 13:4-9
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

I'd like you to explain to me HOW the 'beast' can make war with the saints and overcome them...if they have already been raptured away???

Also, you have not explained how you are right and the rest of the people here are so wrong. You just keep telling us that you have it all figured out, but you don't bother to go ahead and PROVE your claims at all. Do you consider the above to be a 'prophetic scripture'?

I offer that you've been wrongly taught and perhaps don't know how to explain to us what in the world you are talking about.

[billy-brown 2]

Your time frames are skewed

I already have

And I believe that his exegesis is unsupported by the prophetic scriptures

So we have to very different interpretations of the same

All will be revealed in the Lord's timing

Beloved,

Are not the scriptures below prophetic?

Matt. 13

47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;

48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.

49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Matt. 13

37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,

38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

After all, Jesus is the one talking in the parables above, yes?

[billy-brown 2]

I really believe it is literal. I was being facetious here (some would call it sarcasm, but I really meant it in jocular fashion).


Sorry, I was just railing a little about those who do spiritualize away plain and literal prophecies. These things will occur just as God has said they would and my apologies if my poking a little fun.

This is absolute, concrete fact and is going to happen...

The land promised to Abraham and the time frame is the return of Christ and the millenium. Actually, those in the first resurrection will be spirit and rule, Rev 5:10. Those that are brought back to their lands will be those humans who survive the tribulation. Christ says He will work through Judah first, then Israel, then the gentiles. The return of Christ is to set up a literal Kingdom on earth and He will reign for 1000 years over literal human beings. David will be resurrected to be king over Israel, and the twelve will each be given a tribe to be king over (Matthias in Judas place.)

LOL

How will Christ "set up" a literal kingdom on earth after His return? Is he not now King over the Kingdom of God? Notice the following passage from Jesus:

Matt. 13
36Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,

38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Yep.

The tares are gathered OUT of His Kingdom at the end of the age; this means that His Kingdom had to be established beforehand.

And where there is a Kingdom, there has to be a King . . . and His name is Jesus:

I Tim. 1
16Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

[John 8:32]

Well, it can be an example of this passage in scripture:



But Jesus was talking to the angel of the church of Smyrna--to THEM--in the applicable verses:



Yes?

Ephesus..

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Smyrna...

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Peramos...

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Thyatira...

Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Sardis...

Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Piladelphia...

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Laodicea...

Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Notice that anyone with an ear to hear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churchES. Apparently He wasn't just talking to them.

[billy-brown 2]

Ephesus..

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Smyrna...

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Peramos...

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Thyatira...

Rev 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Sardis...

Rev 3:6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Piladelphia...

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Laodicea...

Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Notice that anyone with an ear to hear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churchES. Apparently He wasn't just talking to them.

LOL

Well, I have written this already:

Well, the message of the book of Revelation is indeed for all Christians--including the Christians in Smyrna of that first-century time:

Rev. 1
8“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
9I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet,
11saying, “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

Yep.

Now, the verses above give us the entire reason for writing the book of Revelation to start with. Notice that John and the seven churches of Asia were partaking indeed in the following:

1) tribulation
2) kingdom (of God)
3) perseverance which are in Jesus.

And so, here's a possible radio (or television) script on all this:

Jesus: Hi John.

John: Yes, Lord.

Jesus: I know of the tribulation and trouble that you and your brothers are experiencing; and so, I want you to be faithful in tribulation and trouble, and I will judge evil as well as reward you and your brothers for your faithfulness; you can COUNT ON IT.

John: OK Lord, I will be faithful . . .

Jesus: OK John. Now, I'm telling ya . . . you write in a book what you see in VISIONS, and send the book to THEM (the 7 churches) so they will learn that they need to be faithful also; indeed, I WILL VINDICATE THEM, AND THEY WILL HAVE VICTORY.

John: OK, I will obey you, Lord . . .

And so, EVERYTHING that John wrote had to have meaning for those 7 churches, because they were all experiencing these things below:

1) tribulation
2) kingdom (of God)
3) perseverance which are in Jesus.

And John was commanded to write to THEM.

Yep.

And so, if the text to the book of Revelation did not have meaning for the experiences of the seven Asia churches of that time . . . well . . . what do you think about that?

So . . .