Satan is released and deceives the nations Rev 20:8

[Indueseason]

Where did all these premils come from?? I should have given out passwords to enter this thread Where did I ask for a premil/Amil debate? Thankfully most of the questions addressed to me have been answered by those who were asked to share they're point of view

I am a Partial Preterist with an Amil view of the Kingdom, 1000 years etc. Therefore I see us now in the 1000 years of Rev 20, thus the reason for my question I see most of Revelation to have been fulfilled, either literally or spiritually. Since many of you have been debating these things for years, I'm sure you know my belief as well as I do, so I won't bore you with the detail



So to Raybob, John and anyone else who's Amil/PP what do you expect to see when satan is released? What would be different from what's going on in the world or church today?

Billy, you mix in so many scriptures, I don't know if I'm coming or going I'll chew on your posts some more

blessings to you all

[divaD]

Where did all these premils come from?? I should have given out passwords to enter this thread Where did I ask for a premil/Amil debate? Thankfully most of the questions addressed to me have been answered by those who were asked to share they're point of view

It's pretty much the way these threads run it's course. There would have been a lot of amils, etc, in this thread if it were a premil asking other premils things. And besides, if I'm not mistaken, theRookie has made it clear that there aren't supposed to be one sided discussions in ETC, where only amils can respond, or only premil can respond, etc.

But I do get your point tho. I'll try to stay out of this thread since my opinions don't seem to be welcome here.

[Raybob]

...So to Raybob, John and anyone else who's Amil/PP what do you expect to see when satan is released? What would be different from what's going on in the world or church today? ..:

I can see how there's nothing at all to be fulfilled before Jesus comes. If things get worse, there's no limit to how bad it can get, including all those premill predictions of needing a physical mark to make purchases, but I seriously doubt that one.

[Caleb]

You are mixing two different visions that John saw. The one in 19 ends with the return of Christ and the death of ALL men.

That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great... And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
(Rev 19:18-21)

Then Revelation 20 begins a different vision that ends with the same ending that Revelation 19 ends with.

And I saw ...
(Rev 20:1)

The vision in 19 ends with the beast and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire.

The vision in 20 speaks of those who are beheaded for not worshiping or taking the mark of the beast. It then goes on to say that these same Christians will then reign with Christ for a thousand years. This must be the sum of all those who did not worship or take the mark, after the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

However you want to interpret the length of this 'thousand years' it begins after the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. And it is during this same 'thousand years' that satan is bound.

So, if you believe that this thousand years when satan is bound began at the cross, then the beast and false prophet and all those beheaded, must be pre the crucifixion.

[Raybob]

The vision in 19 ends with the beast and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire.

The vision in 20 speaks of those who are beheaded for not worshiping or taking the mark of the beast. It then goes on to say that these same Christians will then reign with Christ for a thousand years. This must be the sum of all those who did not worship or take the mark, after the beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

However you want to interpret the length of this 'thousand years' it begins after the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. And it is during this same 'thousand years' that satan is bound.

So, if you believe that this thousand years when satan is bound began at the cross, then the beast and false prophet and all those beheaded, must be pre the crucifixion.

If you can't understand the basic concept of different visions throughout the book of Revelation, I suggest you start a thread or search the many on that topic. it is off topic on this thread.

[John146]

It's pretty much the way these threads run it's course. There would have been a lot of amils, etc, in this thread if it were a premil asking other premils things. And besides, if I'm not mistaken, theRookie has made it clear that there aren't supposed to be one sided discussions in ETC, where only amils can respond, or only premil can respond, etc.

But I do get your point tho. I'll try to stay out of this thread since my opinions don't seem to be welcome here.

No, your opinions are welcome for the reason you stated. There aren't supposed to be any threads that only amils, premils, etc. can post in. So, feel free. As far as the poll is concerned it obviously only makes sense for amils to vote in the poll. But there's no reason why premils can't express their opinions in this thread.

[John146]

So to Raybob, John and anyone else who's Amil/PP what do you expect to see when satan is released?

Increased wickedness. A mass falling away from the faith. I personally relate 2 Thess 2:3-12 to the little season.

What would be different from what's going on in the world or church today?

Maybe nothing. I think the state of the world is very bad today. It seems that wickedness has been increasing partly due to the high amount of wicked content available on the Internet and cable TV. As far as the church there seems to be a lack of discernment on the part of many churchgoers due to not ever really taking the time to study the Bible for themselves. That lack of wisdom can lead to people being deceived by other religions and then falling away from the Christian faith. There has been a large increase in the number of false religions in the world over the past 200 years or so, so maybe it started in the 1800s? It's hard to say.

[Indueseason]

It's pretty much the way these threads run it's course. There would have been a lot of amils, etc, in this thread if it were a premil asking other premils things. And besides, if I'm not mistaken, theRookie has made it clear that there aren't supposed to be one sided discussions in ETC, where only amils can respond, or only premil can respond, etc.

But I do get your point tho. I'll try to stay out of this thread since my opinions don't seem to be welcome here.

Oh David, I'm sorry you thought that I didn't want your opinion I thought I put enough smilies into my post to show that I was joking. You and some other premils posted on the first page and I thanked you for your opinion. I couldn't get back to the board for a day after I posted, and I just was surprised to see you all debating. I am sorry if I made you think that your opinion was not wanted, it was not my intention I just wanted to find out how some other amils viewed the things I mentioned. They have answered, so I'm happy with that. Please come back to the thread if you want

blessings to you

[Indueseason]

No, your opinions are welcome for the reason you stated. There aren't supposed to be any threads that only amils, premils, etc. can post in. So, feel free. As far as the poll is concerned it obviously only makes sense for amils to vote in the poll. But there's no reason why premils can't express their opinions in this thread.

I was just explaining

blessings to you

[Indueseason]

I can see how there's nothing at all to be fulfilled before Jesus comes. If things get worse, there's no limit to how bad it can get, including all those premill predictions of needing a physical mark to make purchases, but I seriously doubt that one.

I agree there's nothing that needs to be fulfilled, but I don't rule out the possibility of a repeat of some prophecies.

blessings to you

[Indueseason]

Increased wickedness. A mass falling away from the faith. I personally relate 2 Thess 2:3-12 to the little season.

Maybe nothing. I think the state of the world is very bad today. It seems that wickedness has been increasing partly due to the high amount of wicked content available on the Internet and cable TV. As far as the church there seems to be a lack of discernment on the part of many churchgoers due to not ever really taking the time to study the Bible for themselves. That lack of wisdom can lead to people being deceived by other religions and then falling away from the Christian faith. There has been a large increase in the number of false religions in the world over the past 200 years or so, so maybe it started in the 1800s? It's hard to say.

I agree with everything you've said. There is a serious lack of discernment in the "church" today, it's shocking really. I think many people are happy just to listen to what their pastor/minister preaches, or to follow bible studies that are geared towards one perspective. They buy books and dvd's from their favorite preachers and rarely step out of that comfort zone. They just trust that the man standing at the front preaching, knows the truth. I know I did for the first years of my walk.

Maybe it started in the 1800's? Could be I guess. 200+ years out of 2000 could be classed as a short season If it gets much worse after this, we might be onto something

blessings to you

[Caleb]

If you can't understand the basic concept of different visions throughout the book of Revelation, I suggest you start a thread or search the many on that topic. it is off topic on this thread.

How is it off topic?

I take it that you just cannot give an answer.

[Raybob]

How is it off topic?

I take it that you just cannot give an answer.

The topic was: "For Amil/PP folks, are we in satans little season?" What you are suggesting is not Amil or PP.

[billy-brown 2]

You know..if I weren't currently premil, I think I could actually agree with a lot of what you stated. But don't get me wrong tho, I have to first be 100% convinced premil is wrong. So far, based on what you and some others have said, I'm probably 20% convinced that premil might be wrong. Only 80% more to go.

LOL

Well, it has helped me a lot to figure out that all of the vision verses of Revelation are suppose to be teaching all of us something--and as long as we continue to assume that the timing indicators have to represent earth-clock-time (as in "1000 years of time" in Revelation 20, for example), we are all going to miss what we should be learning . . .

[billy-brown 2]

In your view you say the 1000 years simply represents a long amount of time, and that this 1000 years and satan's little season combined comprise the entire church age. If this is what you're basically saying, then in a way I can see that as being somewhat logical, but in another way it doesn't seem logical at all. But the thing is, something has to happen to cause this long period of time to conclude. What exactly would that be? Also, what exactly is the purpose of this 1000 years in the first place, since satan's little season would still be a part of the church age?

Here's some key things that occur within this 1000 years.

1. satan is bound from deceiving the nations the entire time.
2.the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
3.the rest of the dead lived not.

Let's go with number 2 first. Here it states that it is the souls that were beheaded, etc, that reign with Christ 1000 years. Then verse 6 goes on to say...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ. It seems odd that departed souls who are now in heaven would be reigning as priests of God and of Christ in heaven. Personally I have NEVER seen this concept taught anywhere in Scriptures.

Then we have number 3. Who would be the rest of the dead during this long period of time? When we think about the dead, that is an ongoing experience. Folks have been dead and folks continue to die every minute of the day. But this verse specifically states that at the beginning of the 1000 years the rest of the dead live not again. That only explains those that would have already been dead before this long period of time begins. It hardly explains who might be dead by tomorrow tho.

But in my view, one doesn't encounter these problems. If one looks at Zech 14, it is then obvious that not everyone is happy during this time, thus the plagues, no rain, etc. It seems pretty obvious to me that these would be some of the ones satan deceives once being released.

There is some great thinking going on here. Yep.

However . . . the "1000 years" deals with what dead people are doing (among other things).

Let that sink in . . .



This means that the dead people in this verse (see the bold text):

Rev. 20
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

are blessed and holy DEAD people, indeed:

Rev. 20
6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Thus, these are DEAD Christians--they were beheaded, yes? This is indeed what John sees in the vision; remember, he was not shown everything.

Yep. Indeed, there will be more DEAD Christians to come from now. Additionally, there will be more DEAD non-Christians to come from now; indeed, the second death has power over the DEAD non-Christians:

Rev. 20
5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

And since we have had this to happen already:

Acts 12
1Now about that time Herod the king laid hands on some who belonged to the church in order to mistreat them.
2And he had James the brother of John put to death with a sword.
3When he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also. Now it was during the days of Unleavened Bread.

how many years ago from now has that been? Has it not been over 2000 years or more . . . ?

And remember, there are no martyrs that have died after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, because that has not happened yet . . .



(. . . Do you see what I am getting at . . .?)