Will the New Covenant transform hearts so that a person lives without sin (i.e. perfect a person)?Originally Posted by Fenris
Posting Freak
Will the New Covenant transform hearts so that a person lives without sin (i.e. perfect a person)?
Deadpan Snarker
The concept of "perfect" in the abstract is Greek, not Jewish.
Will the post-messianic world be without intentional sin, where knowledge of God covers the earth? yes.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Posting Freak
God has chosen to make this "perfection" or "perfect holiness" attainable through Christ.
Psalm 19:14
I agree... about the part that the most Jews can't see this about Messiah, for Isaiah also wrote that there would be a partial hardening to the Jews...
Isaiah 6:9 And He said: 'Go, and tell this people: hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they, seeing with their eyes, and hearing with their ears, and understanding with their heart, return, and be healed.'
11 Then said I: 'L-rd, how long?' And He answered: 'Until cities be waste without inhabitant, and houses without man, and the land become utterly waste,
12 And HaShem have removed men far away, and the forsaken places be many in the midst of the land.
13 And if there be yet a tenth in it, it shall again be eaten up; as a terebinth, and as an oak, whose stock remaineth, when they cast their leaves, so the holy seed shall be the stock thereof.'
Isaiah 53:1 Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of HaShem been revealed?
2 For he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground; he had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon him, nor beauty that we should delight in him.
3 He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of G-d, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed.
6 All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and HaShem hath made to light on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb; yea, he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and with his generation who did reason? for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his tomb; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.'
10 Yet it pleased HaShem to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of HaShem might prosper by his hand:
11 Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant, who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many, and their iniquities he did bear.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.
Psalm 34:21 He keepeth all his bones; not one of them is broken.
John 19:29 A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth. 30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit. 31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him; 33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe. 36 For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN." 37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED." 38 After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body. 39 Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight. 40 So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews. 41 Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been laid. 42 Therefore because of the Jewish day of preparation, since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.
The above OT quotes taken from JEWISH PUBLICATION SOCIETY BIBLE @ http://www.breslov.com/bible/
"Enter by the Narrow Gate...
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
... there are few who find it."
-----------------------------------------------
* All Scripture when quoted is taken from:
The New American Standard Bible®,
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)
Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis
Deadpan Snarker
This is your second straight post that doesn't address what I said.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Posting Freak
So, back to your other questions...
I believe that repentant sinners who know nothing of Christ Jesus can be forgiven by God and fellowship restored. The door to eternal life, however, was not open until after the cross.
OKThe law isn't about being perfect or eternal life. It's about carrying out God's will on this earth. Whatever reward He chooses to give me is fine.
Why does God desire perfection in the eternal age?Why do we think that God expects perfection?
Posting Freak
What haven't I addressed?
Deadpan Snarker
Prophecy fulfilled with the Babylonian exile, 586 years (give or take) before Jesus was born.
The Hebrew reads "from our sins" which means something different than "for our sins"Isaiah 53:1 Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of HaShem been revealed?
2 For he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground; he had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon him, nor beauty that we should delight in him.
3 He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of G-d, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities:
Yes, and so? Jews mourning for Jewish dead. Contextually, it seems to be happening when the nations gather against Jerusalem, which hasn't happened yet.And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.
There's nothing in this psalm to suggest it's about the messiah though.Psalm 34:21 He keepeth all his bones; not one of them is broken.
It's not a really great translation. Just the KJV with major errors corrected.The above OT quotes taken from JEWISH PUBLICATION SOCIETY BIBLE
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Deadpan Snarker
There's nothing in my bible to suggest anything of the sort. And nearly all Christians disagree that "repentant sinners who know nothing of Christ Jesus can be forgiven by God ".
I don't know what God "desires" and again, the idea of "perfection" is not a Jewish one.Why does God desire perfection in the eternal age?
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
New and Improved
One thing that baffles me, Fenris: if the Passover lamb was not meant as a sin-offering, as you say, what was its purpose?
When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.
Deadpan Snarker
To commemorate the Exodus, like the rest of the holiday.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Psalm 19:14
Thanks... so if I had a dollar for every 'Christian' comment about translations... I though for sure Hebrew or Latin to English would be a no brainier with the Jewish folk...so which online translation would you recommend?
"Enter by the Narrow Gate...
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
... there are few who find it."
-----------------------------------------------
* All Scripture when quoted is taken from:
The New American Standard Bible®,
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)
Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis
Deadpan Snarker
Oh I am sure.
My favorite is Artscroll, but it isn't online.so which online translation would you recommend?
I actually like the KJV because it captures the poetic flow of Hebrew the best, but it's full of mistranslations.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
New and Improved
So you see no deeper significance in God's judgment "passing over" those homes that had the blood of an innocent lamb sprinkled upon the doorposts? I know the significance of this is unique to Christians, but I'm surprised that there is not a deeper symbolism there for the Jews. Hmm.
When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.
Posting Freak
An example would be Cornelius who had a relationship with God before he knew Christ.
I gotta run, but I'll come back to this.I don't know what God "desires" and again, the idea of "perfection" is not a Jewish one.
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