Re: A Question for my friend, Fenris
Or was it something they saw in their mind?
Originally Posted by LookingUp
Did Paul see Jesus? Or did hear a voice that no one else heard?
Hmm. No, it seems to be Israel's reward for repenting.
It’s significant because you said that the new heart is a reward for Israel’s great job at obeying the Law.
Just after? I don't see a timeframe.
Yet we’re told that the new heart is given just after Israel strays.
I think you're mixing references. Jeremiah 31 which mentions the "New covenant" (if you like to call it that" doesn't say anything about following the law. It only says that God will write the Torah on our hearts.
And the new heart is given SO THAT they will obey the Law. It just doesn’t make any sense that they are rewarded with a gift of obeying the Law because they’re already obeying the Law. And, besides, Scripture doesn’t teach they’re in the middle of obeying the Law when the new heart is given. They’re in the middle of walking away from God, He calls them back, He gathers them…God’s the one who does everything to get them to repent. God rewards them because He is faithful. Not because they are faithful. Do you agree? Do you see this in Scripture?
Which also hasn't happened yet.
Right. In the messianic era or, I would say, at the inauguration of the messianic era.
Maybe what's important is what's accomplished now.
Exactly. So, what’s the new heart about? So that they will follow the Law from their hearts, which is the ideal way to follow the Law. It’s within them. It comes out naturally because it’s in the heart. God will have to accomplish this. It’s His doing. They will follow the Law in this flawless, beautiful manner because God causes them to do so by writing Torah on their hearts. What is not accomplished at this time will be accomplished in the next era by God.
If that was what God really wanted, He could have circumvented that by not giving man free will in the first place.
Well, Scripture says that God will give them a new heart, a heart of flesh. It sounds like they’re in need of a heart change and God is the one who has to do it.
The point isn't to be in Eden. It's to get back their by our accomplishments.
The point isn't to accept charity from God. It's to earn an honest wage with honest labor.
Deuteronomy 30 makes it sound like the heart is ok. But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
If there’s nothing wrong with the heart, what do you make of Scriptures like “The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick”? (Jer. 17:9) Scripture also speaks of this need to have the heart circumcised. Sounds like it’s something with the heart of a person that needs changing.
No. It says that you WILL do it. Just like the prophets say that the Jews will follow the law. So maybe it doesn't mean "perfectly" in either instance. Think about it.
Sure. It reminds them and with the reminder, they will be more likely to do it.
Not if God wasn't the subject of that sin, no.
I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying. Do you believe God can forgive any sin that one genuinely repents of?
I dislike the idea that "Of course God will forgive, that's what He's there fore".
Don’t you agree? We see that God forgave sin in the OT. We see that God gave Jesus authority to forgive sin during his ministry. So, sure, God had been in the business of forgiving sin for a very long time.
In any case. If you're going to adopt this line of thought I don't see why Jesus is necessary.
You're entitled to your opinion.
I, personally, think that when God says He will give Israel a new heart and cause them to walk in His statutes that this suggests that He desires a flawless obedience to His Law.
Which still leaves the possibility of accidental sin.
The obedience will be flawless in that it will come from within, straight from the heart. I don’t think it’s about “remembering His Laws” as if the Laws are written on their minds to remind them. I think Scripture suggests it will be more than that. It will become part of who they are and this will cause them to live out the heartfelt intent of the Law at all times. This is what I mean by flawless.
Even sin I suppose
Everything God accomplishes is for His good pleasure (Isa. 46:10).
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."