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Thread: Daniel 12: 7: Scattering the Power of the Holy People

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Ol Misery

    Daniel 12: 7: Scattering the Power of the Holy People

    Daniel 12: 7: Scattering the Power of the Holy People

    In Daniel 10: 8-21 an angel sent from God comes to Daniel to give him a prophecy.

    But when the angel finally comes to Daniel he says in Daniel 10: 12-14 "Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
    13. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 14.Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days."

    The prophecy the angel gave to him is in Daniel Chapter 11 - but there is no clear break
    in the text between the end of Chapter 11 and the shorter Chapter 12. There are verses from Daniel 11: 33 to Daniel 11: 45, the end of the chapter, which seem to depart from the description of the actions of "he" who is the actor in these last verses of the chapter. For example, Daniel 11: 33 says "And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days." This prophecy on those with understanding instructing many is continued in Daniel 12: 3, "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

    "They" who turn many to righteousness are the same "they" who understand and instruct many in Daniel 11: 33. But in Daniel 12: 3 the text adds the turning of those instructed to righteousness, and that they who are wise will shine as the brightness of the firmament and as the stars for ever and ever."

    Righteousness is important in understanding who the holy people are in Daniel 12: 7.
    Remember that the angel told Daniel that he came to make him understand "what shall befall thy people in the latter days." But in the churches the usual view is that Daniel 11 is only about a series of actions in the struggle between the King of the North and the King of the South. To most Christians now, the prophecy was exhausted at the end of the conflict between the Ptolemaic and the Seleucid empires, with the death of Antiochus IV Epiphanes by disease in 164 BC, who was the King of the North, or of Syria as opposed to Egypt of the South.

    There are, however, scenarios in Daniel 11 which can be seen to fit historical events in much later periods of history, even up to the early 21st century. And Why would an angel from God be sent to Daniel the prophet to tell him the forthcoming history of the battles between the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empires? This history does not reach the time when Christ was born during the Roman empire. There is more to Daniel 11 than the story of battles between the house of Ptolemy and the house of Seleucus before the birth of Christ. This "scripture of truth" (Daniel 10: 21) is not likely to be limited to political and military struggles between two ancient dynasties.

    There is a statement in Daniel 12: 1 which sounds a lot like what Christ said in Matthew 24: 21, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

    Daniel 12: 1 says "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

    Lets get to the very interesting part in Daniel 12: 5-10. "Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7. And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. 8. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9. And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."

    This starts with an image of two men standing on either side of a river, with a man not in the river but "upon the waters of the river." This has to be Jesus Christ, who walked on the water in Matthew 14: 25-29. The two men on either side of the river could represent those in the valley of decision in Joel 3: 14, or the two parts cut off in Zechariah 13: 8-9, or perhaps two groups of people who claim to be of God, physical Israel and the "church."
    The important part is in verse 7, "...when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."

    The end will come at the time when the holy people are scattered.

    But look at that the New International Version has for this part of verse 7. The NIV for some reason leaves out "he" and says "When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things shall be completed."

    This is interesting. Broken is different from scattered. And what does breaking or scattering the power of the holy people mean? On a fleshly or political level, breaking the power of the holy people could mean that Christians in America toward the end will not be as important a group in determining elections of presidents, etc as they were just a few years ago. But breaking or scattering the power of the holy people has a more significant spiritual meaning.

    Who are the holy people? Strict classical dispensationalism postulates clearly that God now has two people, the physical Israelites and the "church." And in its insistence on interpreting scripture in a consistent literal way, Israel is always physical Israel, and never can be Israel reborn in Jesus Christ. And dispensationalism does not accept Paul's division of Israel into two groups in Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8 and Galatians 4: 25-26. Therefore, for many or most, in the "church" the holy people in Daniel 12: 7 has to be physical Israel, the Israelites, the chosen people of God prior to God's transformation of physical Israel to Israel reborn in Christ.

    But the problem is that to be holy a people must be in Christ and have his righteousness. Man has no righteousness of his own, but only takes on the righteousness of Jesus Christ. There was a small remnant of physical Israel who accepted Christ as Paul shows in Romans 11 and elsewhere in the New Testament it is clear some Israelites became fully born again.

    The holy people in Daniel's prophecy of Daniel 12 have to be Christians, and those that understand among the people and instruct many are Christians, though this can apply also to the apostles in the First Century. Those in Daniel 12: 3 who turn many to righteousness, the righteousness Christ gives them, and who shine forever, are Christians.

    The holy people of Daniel 12: 7 are Christians, completely born again in Christ, for otherwise they could not be holy.

    The NIV says the power of the holy people is to be broken, with the implication that their power - political and/or spiritual - is destroyed, or almost completely destroyed.
    The New American Standard Bible says "a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed."

    The New Revised Standard Version says "...two times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things would be accomplished."

    Then the American Standard Version has "...and a half; and when they have made an end of breaking in pieces the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."
    And the Catholic Douay-Rheims says "And when the scattering of the band of the holy people shall be accomplished, all these things shall be finished. "
    So, the English Catholic Bible agrees pretty much with the King James Version.
    What does the key Hebrew word translated as scattered, broken, and shattered mean?
    The Hebrew word, in Daniel 12: 7, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Number 5310, naphates, is said to mean "to dash to pieces, break in pieces, dispersed, scatter." It could mean break in pieces or to scatter the holy people.

    If we follow the older Protestant method of interpreting scripture by scripture, then what texts are most relevant to Daniel 12: 7?

    II Thessalonians 2: 3-4, plus Matthew 24: 11,
    I Timothy 4: 1, II Timothy 3: 13, and II Peter 2: 1 about the falling away and many false prophets deceiving Christians are relevant to the weakening of the spiritual power of Christians in the end times. So is Luke 13: 21 on the leavening of Christians.

    The majority of Christians can be seen to go into apostasy in the end times and in that way lose their spiritual - and political - power. But there are verses which say that God will preserve a Remnant who do not lose their spiritual power, though they may be so small in number and not organized that they have little political power.

    Isaiah 10: 22-23, Zephaniah 3: 12-13 and Romans 9: 27 all talk about the Remnant. A Remnant existed when physical Israel fell away and will and does exist when the "church" has fallen away.

    In Revelation 12: 5-6 and Revelation 12: 14, 17 a "woman" goes to the wilderness where she gives birth to a "man child" and her "remnant," in verse 17. The wilderness is metaphoric for being outside of any organized group, and it is metaphoric for the people of God getting out of Egypt and going into the literal wilderness. "Egypt" is metaphoric for the apostate churches. So the end time Christian Remnant is not organized and not together in a physical place, though they are in substantial unity in Christ.

    The Remnant is scattered over the world. The scattered remnant agrees with the King James and Douay-Rheims scattering of the holy people. The Christian Remnant is the holy people of the very last days

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Blog Entries

    Re: Daniel 12: 7: Scattering the Power of the Holy People

    I believe scatter the power of the holy people (Daniel 12:7) is referring to the diaspora of Israelites.

    Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns. And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.
    And the LORD shewed me four carpenters. Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.
    (Zechariah 1:18-21)

    I believe the four horns which scattered Judah were Babylon, the Persian empire, Greece, and Rome.

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