Gifts of the spirit - In particular tongues

[keck553]

I don't accept any opinion about tongues from people who reject it. Denial doesn't guarantee anyone full knowledge about the subject. Those who have the gift and exercise it know what they are talking about.

As far as what you think tongues sounds like, Satan is a mimic. I know that when the Holy Spirit is working amongst His people, that tongues is a very important part of our prayer life. The word instructs us not to hinder or forbid it. Paul says he wishes everyone would determine to speak in tongues. Paul doesn't speak of 'ecstatic utterances'. He speaks of the prophetic gift of tongues and the grace gift of tongues in prayer. One is God speaking to the people and the other is the people speaking to God.

I would like my previous points addressed and my questions answered please?

[keck553]

I know Christian people who do not have the gift of tongues---yet. It doesn't mean that they do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, which they received at salvation. It means that they have not yet submitted to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I have a problem with those who denounce the gift of tongues, as the Spirit doesn't denounce Himself, does He? Another spirit will do that. That is why the acrimony that surrounds discussions like this is very, VERY dangerous, and harmful, spiritually.

Jesus could very easily have used the heavenly tongue to speak to God in private, just as many of us do. However, the gift is one of many that is specifically given to the CHURCH. It isn't 'unintelligible noise' to God---it is Holy Spirit talking to God. He understands it.

Yet? LOL. Been there. Done that.. Grew up. Left that. I suppose now you're going to claim to I am in rebellion. Truth is that I am more submitted to God now than ever before. Nothing you can say will change that.

[Desperaux]

Yet? LOL. Been there. Done that.. Grew up. Left that. I suppose now you're going to claim to I am in rebellion. Truth is that I am more submitted to God now than ever before. Nothing you can say will change that.

There is a lot more to be experienced in God in order for us to be powerfully effective in and for the Kingdom, and that comes by submitting to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. There is no real place for complacency in our walk with God---we can always go deeper and deeper, as we walk in the Spirit.

[notuptome]

There is a lot more to be experienced in God in order for us to be powerfully effective in and for the Kingdom, and that comes by submitting to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. There is no real place for complacency in our walk with God---we can always go deeper and deeper, as we walk in the Spirit.

The baptism of the Holy Spiriti occurs the moment we are saved. It is biblically incorrect to assert that one speaks in tongues due to a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Peter and the others at pentacost we filled with the Holy Spirit not baptised. The word in the greek clearly makes it a filling and not a baptism.

The utterances of Acts ended with the completion of the canon of scripture in 1 Cor 13:8. The tongues that continue today are known languages as evidenced at Corinth. If one seeks a deeper walk with Christ one needs to study the bible. Increase faith through deeper study of Gods word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[keck553]

There is a lot more to be experienced in God in order for us to be powerfully effective in and for the Kingdom, and that comes by submitting to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. There is no real place for complacency in our walk with God---we can always go deeper and deeper, as we walk in the Spirit.

I received The Holy Spirit at the point of my salvation. After all it was The Holy Spirit Who prompted me to flee the charismatic church I was in bondage to and freed me to flourish in a bible church with sound doctrines.

[Slug1]

I received The Holy Spirit at the point of my salvation. After all it was The Holy Spirit Who prompted me to flee the charismatic church I was in bondage to and freed me to flourish in a bible church with sound doctrines.

This is understandable. Someday I pray that a person like Paul, goes back to that church and corrects them as Paul corrected the Corinthians and then they will utilize the gift of tongues in the order as God intends.

I will have to say a church that is the opposite extreme and says that any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased are actually following a doctrine that is quenching the Holy Spirit.

There is a wrong way and a right way that tongues is utilized. That church you ran from is the wrong way as it was with the Corinthians. A church that teaches that any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are ended, is also wrong.

The right way (God's way) is as Paul instructed and this is in between the two extremes.

[Slug1]

The baptism of the Holy Spiriti occurs the moment we are saved.

Then why did those Gentiles and Jews from the scriptures in Acts 8 receive their Baptism of the Holy Spirit DAYS later after they were sealed by the Holy Spirit upon their belief and water baptism in the name of Christ?

Of all the scriptures in the Bible, these prove that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate event from the receiving of the Holy Spirit as one accepts Christ and is saved.

[Desperaux]

The baptism of the Holy Spiriti occurs the moment we are saved.

While that does happen, usually it happens subsequent to a person's salvation.

It is biblically incorrect to assert that one speaks in tongues due to a baptism of the Holy Spirit. Peter and the others at pentacost we filled with the Holy Spirit not baptised. The word in the greek clearly makes it a filling and not a baptism.

It is biblical that people received the gift of tongues when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The utterances of Acts ended with the completion of the canon of scripture in 1 Cor 13:8. The tongues that continue today are known languages as evidenced at Corinth. If one seeks a deeper walk with Christ one needs to study the bible. Increase faith through deeper study of Gods word. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.

There are two manifestations of tongues---known languages, so that people of another language will hear and know what God is speaking, and then there is another unknown tongue, which can be interpreted for the congregation, or not, in the case of one having one-on-one time with God.

[keck553]

This is understandable. Someday I pray that a person like Paul, goes back to that church and corrects them as Paul corrected the Corinthians and then they will utilize the gift of tongues in the order as God intends.

I will have to say a church that is the opposite extreme and says that any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased are actually following a doctrine that is quenching the Holy Spirit.

There is a wrong way and a right way that tongues is utilized. That church you ran from is the wrong way as it was with the Corinthians. A church that teaches that any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are ended, is also wrong.

The right way (God's way) is as Paul instructed and this is in between the two extremes.

T
In my opinion you have a beautiful heart that loves God. Nothing is more edifying and gives more glory to God than this one simple thing. May I suggest you study the greater context of Acts 8 and just let the scripture speak without any inductive thought put into it?

[Slug1]

T
In my opinion you have a beautiful heart that loves God. Nothing is more edifying and gives more glory to God than this one simple thing. May I suggest you study the greater context of Acts 8 and just let the scripture speak without any inductive thought put into it?

It was such honest study of scripture as this that help lead me to the freedom from that cessationist doctrine. I've been at both ends of the extremes.

[notuptome]

While that does happen, usually it happens subsequent to a person's salvation.

This is not true. Titus 3:5 We are saved when the Holy Spirit regenerates us.

It is biblical that people received the gift of tongues when they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Not the baptism but a filling. Acts 2:4 And all were filled...pletho not bapto. You are reciting doctrine that is unsound.

There are two manifestations of tongues---known languages, so that people of another language will hear and know what God is speaking, and then there is another unknown tongue, which can be interpreted for the congregation, or not, in the case of one having one-on-one time with God.

When you start with a wrong premise you cannot acheive a correct outcome. Spontaneous utterances like those in Acts ended. Tongues as languages in Corinth are the only tongues remaining. There never was any special prayer language or angelic tongues. These are the concoction of unsound doctrine and not biblical study. Jesus in His most ernest prayers never prayed in any special tongue even after the disciples asked Him to show them how to pray. It seems that what you have been given is a fabrication based on wishful thinking and not sound biblical study.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[notuptome]

Then why did those Gentiles and Jews from the scriptures in Acts 8 receive their Baptism of the Holy Spirit DAYS later after they were sealed by the Holy Spirit upon their belief and water baptism in the name of Christ?

Of all the scriptures in the Bible, these prove that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate event from the receiving of the Holy Spirit as one accepts Christ and is saved.

There a several examples in the primative NT church but it was never a subsequent baptism but a filling. Acts 2:4 is a filling pletho in the greek not bapto. Acts 8:15 is a receiveing of the Holy Spirit for power lambano not bapto. Titus 3:5 teaches that we are saved by the Holy Spirit washing and regenerating us. Surely you can confirm this with your own Strongs.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[Slug1]

There a several examples in the primative NT church but it was never a subsequent baptism but a filling. Acts 2:4 is a filling pletho in the greek not bapto. Acts 8:15 is a receiveing of the Holy Spirit for power lambano not bapto. Titus 3:5 teaches that we are saved by the Holy Spirit washing and regenerating us. Surely you can confirm this with your own Strongs.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hooah... like I said. When a person accepts Christ they receive the Holy Spirit and are sealed and will be saved. However, during their relationship in Christ, God may require them to do a task that can't be done with human ability and thus they also receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. As we see beginning with the Scriptures in, Acts 2, 8, 10, and 17, when the Holy Spirit falls upon them in POWER, then this is a Baptism of the Holy Spirit and is a SEPARATE event, an additional receiving of the Holy Spirit AFTER the initial sealing of the Holy Spirit so a person believing in Christ will be saved.

Why is it so hard to keep these events of receiving the Holy Spirit, first so a person can be saved and another (additional) one in POWER, as TWO separate events?

Ya want to know why it's so hard?

Because the evidence shown in this additional event is evident by the speaking in tongues and the cessationist doctrine CAN'T allow this to be discussed. Scripture clearly shows this is what is the evidence of a person receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in power but the cessationist doctrine WON'T allow this truth to be discussed. Thus your avoidance and anyone else's (who choose to hold to that doctrine) avoidance of this truth of the scriptures.

[notuptome]

Hooah... like I said. When a person accepts Christ they receive the Holy Spirit and are sealed and will be saved. However, during their relationship in Christ, God may require them to do a task that can't be done with human ability and thus they also receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. As we see beginning with the Scriptures in, Acts 2, 8, 10, and 17, when the Holy Spirit falls upon them in POWER, then this is a Baptism of the Holy Spirit and is a SEPARATE event, an additional receiving of the Holy Spirit AFTER the initial sealing of the Holy Spirit so a person believing in Christ will be saved.

Why is it so hard to keep these events of receiving the Holy Spirit, first so a person can be saved and another (additional) one in POWER, as TWO separate events?

Ya want to know why it's so hard?

Because the evidence shown in this additional event is evident by the speaking in tongues and the cessationist doctrine CAN'T allow this to be discussed. Scripture clearly shows this is what is the evidence of a person receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in power but the cessationist doctrine WON'T allow this truth to be discussed. Thus your avoidance and anyone else's (who choose to hold to that doctrine) avoidance of this truth of the scriptures.

There is no will be about it they are saved the moment they believe and are baptised by the Holy Spirit. You are arrogantly declaring everyone else as avoiding the truth of the scriptures yet you are guilty of the same and more. There is the inital baptism and filling when a soul comes to Christ by grace through faith. There are many subsequent fillings of the Holy Spirit as we serve our Lord. It may be a filling to give boldness to witness to a soul about their need to be saved and never have anything to do with tongues. You are employing sloppy exegisis when you brand everything a baptism when it is not and clearly so according to the original Greek. You are supporting a doctrine and doing disservice to the scriptures.

It is not about cessationist or pentacostal doctrine but the truth of the scriptures. Can you believe the scriptures if you do not see signs and wonders? Can you just simply believe the word of God because it is the word of God? Gideon put out a fleece because he did not believe God. Only after he saw could he believe. Jesus said to Thomas you believe because you see but blessed are they who not seeing believe. John 20:29 What is the real spiritual temperature of the church?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[keck553]

It was such honest study of scripture as this that help lead me to the freedom from that cessationist doctrine. I've been at both ends of the extremes.

So have I, except cessation is not extreme
It's just simply the truth. My freedom lies in the truth that the Bible is complete and I am no longer bound by those who would add to God's Word. That security is real freedom.

I think we should pray as Jesus taught. He also told us how not to pray. One of the things he told us not to do in prayer is babble like pagans do.