The Khalifate

[John 8:32]

Yeah, I seem to be with you on this, i.e. the "revived Roman Empire", Assyrian beast, some European and some middle eastern component, and geographically they operate from the middle east. As a matter of fact, the bible makes it clear the beast will occupy Jerusalem and also do his abomination thing.

As of right now, I see the Islamic confederacy (and all the mayhem going on now over there) the rise of the "King of the South" and these are the two that will fight each other, i.e. the beast and his Kingdom.

And again, I don't see the European nations you mentioning in the end time 10-nation confederacy, either. That's because I believe those nations you mentioned originated at least in part from the lost house of Israel, and like the Jew, the Israelites will also have the same Tribulation punishment coming to them. Britain particularly will back out of any such union, and the USA will likewise do so IMO.

Brother Ephraim and we, the Manassites, will be corrected by the rod of God's anger, Germany...

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

I don't see Reuben, Asher, Zebulun, Naphtali, Gad, Issachar or Dan in this end time confederation. They, along with Judah, Benjamin and Levi, are going to be corrected by Assyria. It makes a lot of sense that the King of the South (Islamic confederacy) will push at the reorganized Europe and Europe will come down in that area and crush them. I don't see this Islamic confederacy being much more than a flash in the pan and then fading into insignificance...

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Isa 16:1-4, Isa 33:14-19, Psalm 91 The place of safety in Southern Jordan?

Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

Some other translations have it as a whipped dog at his heels.

[tim_from_pa]

Yes, John 8:32. I'm with you all the way on your post there, and that is where I'm coming from as well. Do you notice a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment now in Europe? I think it's setting the stage for Germany to rise up again, and indeed it is rising now. Another thing is the financial crisis, Germany is taking advantage of that. Yes, we are starting to live those days for sure.

[vinsight4u8]

Zechariah 5 shows the land of Shinar would rise again.
-the Euphrates River area
Babylon

Zechariah 6 shows the horses went to the north country, that can get riders.
/rulers
The north country is Babylon.
The mountains were made of brass, so expect this in the latter days of the Greeks.

Daniel 7 shows the leopard beast rises twice.
one head
then with four heads -/had also

Jeremiah 50-51 shows prophecy spoken against Babylon on the Euphrates River.

Micah 7 shows the land of the Assyria in the end days is the land of Nimrod.

Daniel 8 shows that after the transgressors are come to th full - arises a king out of the east.

Babylon was given 70 years to rule the nations, and has yet to finish that time.
Jer. 28:14 shows Nebuchadnezzar as the yoke of iron.
Other verses show that in the end day - a his yoke/the Assyrian yoke will be broken.

[vinsight4u8]

I see us as back at Daniel 11:14.
There will be a war with Iraq (north/Babylon) and Egypt (south).

Verse 13 splits off into after certain years - this takes us to the end days.
This verse also has two army type of groups in it. One multitude was for the days of Antiochus III, the other for the end days - as a great army.

Daniel was given chapter 11, so he could finish learning about the vision he saw in chapter 10.
The chapter 10 vision is for the latter days.
In 11:14, it mentions vision.

[DurbanDude]

Here are some questions for you:
How did the kings of the earth commit fornication with Rome?
?

I believe the "harlot city" represents Rome and western Europe for the whole period since Rev was written, not just during the Roman Empire, but also the current Vatican. Thus you will find the purple and scarlet robes, golden cups, jewels, blasphemous titles, in the city before and after the division of the Roman Empire.

To answer your question then, during the past the kings of the earth had to pay tribute before the iron might of Rome, as vassal states. During the Holy Rome stage kings had to follow the instructions of Rome or else be excommunicated or invaded by obedient Catholic countries. Currently it is similar, the Pope still struts around like an emperor , his support around the world is immense so countries have to bend to his will. Not only that there is an unofficial interelationship between Europe and Rome, Rome's personnel, people especially committed to the Vatican's cause are embedded in the most powerful positions in Europe. Rome shares the same symbols as Europe , the woman with the twelve stars is the most significant symbol of both organisations. And the Pope is the unofficial emperor of Europe, wearing the robes of an emperor when he makes his papal visits across Europe. Even his three crowns represented being king of Germany, of Italy, and Emperor of Rome. Through the economic power of Europe, all nations have been forced to sign trade agreements and join up into regional trading blocs to have favorable trading agreements with the EU. Result: the countries of the world have sold themselves and their autonomy to compete in a global market with the might of the EU.

How have the inhabitants of the earth been made drunk with her wine?
What IS her wine?

I think the wine is symbolic of her corruptive influence over earth. It is also a strong symbol of the RCI, the wine being Jesus blood, rather than just representing Jesus' blood. And so the wine represents incorrect doctrine corrupting the earth through the worldwide catholic church, and their all embracing ecumenical movement which includes Moslems as part of the true faith.

Why did the angel carry John away into a desert to see the woman? Is Rome in a desert

The woman sits on the waters (controls the Meditteranean). Then in the wilderness the woman sits on the beast. This means that Rome/West will extend her control from the Meditteranean to also control the new union in the Middle East.

17:1-3 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

So the woman is first over the waters, and THEN the woman is seen sitting on the beast in the wilderness. An amusing and interesting observation, this is the symbol of the EU, the goddess Europa sitting on the bull.

[John 8:32]

The woman sits on the waters (controls the Meditteranean). Then in the wilderness the woman sits on the beast. This means that Rome/West will extend her control from the Meditteranean to also control the new union in the Middle East.


[/COLOR]So the woman is first over the waters, and THEN the woman is seen sitting on the beast in the wilderness. An amusing and interesting observation, this is the symbol of the EU, the goddess Europa sitting on the bull.

Waters = Nations, Peoples

[DurbanDude]

Waters = Nations, Peoples

This is a common belief but I wonder where in the bible it comes from.

[Kahtar]

Probably from right here:
Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

[DurbanDude]

Probably from right here:
Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Thanks I didn't notice that. Do you think these waters are referring to 1) all nations on earth including landlocked countries, or 2) all the coastlines of earth, or possibly 3) the Meditteranean which was often referred to as the waters and has many nations and peoples as well? or 4) The particular countries ruled by Rome, whether unrelated to a particular stretch of water or not.

[John 8:32]

Thanks I didn't notice that. Do you think these waters are referring to 1) all nations on earth including landlocked countries, or 2) all the coastlines of earth, or possibly 3) the Meditteranean which was often referred to as the waters and has many nations and peoples as well? or 4) The particular countries ruled by Rome, whether unrelated to a particular stretch of water or not.

It is symbolic, waters can also depict armies...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

When the church flees to a place of safety, the devil will send armies after her. Events, perhaps what we would call natural as in earthquakes, etc. will destroy the armies. It has happened in the past as in Ex 14.

So with this in mind, it doesn't really have anything to do with the Mediterrean or coastlines or bodies of waters, it is picturing many peoples as in Rev 17:15.

[vinsight4u8]

It has to do with when it was that John actually saw the waters.

The angel could be referring to more than just chapter 17's scenes.
The vision does not begin in chapter 17, so the waters could have been seen by John during chapter 16. The vision did not begin in chapter 16, so the waters could have been seen somehere else.

It is one of the vials angels that's knows John was shown the waters.
That makes me think this angel played a role at the time he saw them.

[Kahtar]

Thanks I didn't notice that. Do you think these waters are referring to 1) all nations on earth including landlocked countries, or 2) all the coastlines of earth, or possibly 3) the Meditteranean which was often referred to as the waters and has many nations and peoples as well? or 4) The particular countries ruled by Rome, whether unrelated to a particular stretch of water or not.

My opinion, its speaking of the specific areas that the ac controls. We differ a bit on what areas those are however.

[vinsight4u8]

I think the waters she sits on will be the one set of ten horns areas.
Rev. 16 refers to waters that get blood because they shed the blood of saints and prophets.

[John 8:32]

My opinion, its speaking of the specific areas that the ac controls. We differ a bit on what areas those are however.

We certainly agree on this point. Whether you call him the anti-christ, man of sin, beast or whatever, he will control and direct a large population group and they are the 'waters' he controls. The great whore sits on may waters also, she controls (by religion) many peoples also. There are over 1 billion Roman Catholics in the world today.

[tim_from_pa]

Directed to vinsight4u8 and John 8:32

OK.... vinsight4u8 said:

Zechariah 5 shows the land of Shinar would rise again.
-the Euphrates River area
Babylon

I agree.

However, as John 8:32 knows and many of us "lost tribes" folks know, that the Assyrians migrated (Germany) and Babylon is Rome (just as Israel migrated to the isles).
I want to make these points: traditional Christendom makes use of the geographical areas involving ends times, and connects the people originally from there to those regions.

Of course as john 8:32 rightly knows, these people are no longer in that region, and thus the prophecies according to some ministries focused on the PEOPLE rather than the regions. With me so far?

Now, I propose, are both of you right? Will the people, e.g. Germany, Rome ,etc, somehow associate themselves again in the end times to the REGIONS just as Israel returns to the land of their fathers?

I am offering a compromise, but BOTH views have validity and I can't deny either one. Thoughts?