The Khalifate

[Kahtar]

Plan For The Return of The Khalifate
Some of you will find this interesting. (I'm not interested in and will not respond to amil ridicule.)

At the conference, the representatives will first gather a list of the nominees / candidates (all of whom must be alive and able to serve, but not necessarily present at the conference). After the complete list is gathered, each representative will be handed a copy of all the nominees along with a short biography and resume of skills/experiences (e.g., 1 written page or less). Each representative will then cast one and only one vote for one and only one nominee. The votes for each nominee will be then be counted and the nominee with the largest number of votes will be chosen as the Khalifah and Supreme Islamic Ruler for the Muslims.

Once the Khalifah has taken office, his first task is to choose ten adult male Muslims who will serve as his Council. Each of these ten Council members will serve as the head of one of the ten departments listed below.

Check the link while it is still there and read the whole document.

[DurbanDude]

Plan For The Return of The Khalifate
Some of you will find this interesting. (I'm not interested in and will not respond to amil ridicule.)


Check the link while it is still there and read the whole document.

I do find it interesting, however I don't think that the re-establishment of caliphate will require a long-term small group strategy. These Muslims are accurately realising that their Muslim governments are actually part of the international system, and so are trying to set up a "true" Muslim organisation that is too grassroots to be taken over by the world system. I believe the Islamic Caliphate will be set up in Istanbul, but by those who have prominent positions and are already tied in with the world system.

Daniel 2 says that the two divisions of Rome will be ruling right until the second coming, these have both political (iron) and religious (clay) power (Rome and Istanbul are the two capitals of the two divisions of the Roman Empire)

Rev 13 says that the two small centres (two little horns) have political and religious authority over the whole earth and set up the beast.

I don't think that the two prophecies would contradict eachother, both are pointing to Rome and Istanbul being the religious and political authorities on earth just before the second coming.

[Kahtar]

I don't think they do contradict each other. First, Daniel 2 does not say that the 4th kingdom is Rome. That is an assumption based on the fact that Rome was the next empire in line to conquer Israel and much of the area that the others encompassed.
Here's the thing, though.
This was a dream of Nebuchadnezzer, and it related directly to him and his kingdom.
While the next empire as I said was the Roman, the Roman was not the next to conquer Persia.
They tried, but failed, and never even got close to Babylon. Why is that important? Because, if you look at the prophecy it says 'And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Rome did not 'break' the area of Babylon, while the 4th kingdom did. That means that the kingdom next in line after Rome is the 4th kingdom, and that would be the Muslim Khalifate culminating in the Ottoman Empire. And it is THAT empire, not Rome, that is revived and becomes the eighth empire, as we are now seeing. (Have you seen the map of the Arab League? Except for Turkey and Iran, it looks the same as the others. Same area) And certainly if Ahmadinejad has his way, that will happen soon.
The other thing is this: in ALL the prophecies in the Bible concerning the end times, the final war, the return of Christ and His army to conquer the antichrist kingdom, how many of the described nations that He comes against are found in Europe?
Where in scripture do you find it mentioned that King Jesus destroys Rome, or Germany, or Spain or France or England, or even the US?
The fact is, in every single prophecy, the nations that the LORD destroys are all nations that are now Muslim.
Moab and Ammon, Meshech and Tubal, Gog and Magog, Egypt and Ethiopia, Libya, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Babylon and Persia, Edom and Dedan.
Check out the prophecies in Zephaniah, Habakkuk, Joel, Obadiah, Micah 5, Jeremiah 25, Zechariah, Amos, Isaiah, Daniel, and Revelation. You will see it. You will not see the LORD conquering Europe or Russia or China or the Americas.
Read the Quran and compare the coming 12th Imam, the final Khalifate, with the antichrist of the Bible. You will find them to be an exact match.

[DurbanDude]

I don't think they do contradict each other. First, Daniel 2 does not say that the 4th kingdom is Rome. That is an assumption based on the fact that Rome was the next empire in line to conquer Israel and much of the area that the others encompassed.
Here's the thing, though.
This was a dream of Nebuchadnezzer, and it related directly to him and his kingdom.
While the next empire as I said was the Roman, the Roman was not the next to conquer Persia.
They tried, but failed, and never even got close to Babylon. Why is that important? Because, if you look at the prophecy it says 'And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Rome did not 'break' the area of Babylon, while the 4th kingdom did. That means that the kingdom next in line after Rome is the 4th kingdom, and that would be the Muslim Khalifate culminating in the Ottoman Empire. And it is THAT empire, not Rome, that is revived and becomes the eighth empire, as we are now seeing. (Have you seen the map of the Arab League? Except for Turkey and Iran, it looks the same as the others. Same area) And certainly if Ahmadinejad has his way, that will happen soon.
The other thing is this: in ALL the prophecies in the Bible concerning the end times, the final war, the return of Christ and His army to conquer the antichrist kingdom, how many of the described nations that He comes against are found in Europe?
Where in scripture do you find it mentioned that King Jesus destroys Rome, or Germany, or Spain or France or England, or even the US?
The fact is, in every single prophecy, the nations that the LORD destroys are all nations that are now Muslim.
Moab and Ammon, Meshech and Tubal, Gog and Magog, Egypt and Ethiopia, Libya, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Babylon and Persia, Edom and Dedan.
Check out the prophecies in Zephaniah, Habakkuk, Joel, Obadiah, Micah 5, Jeremiah 25, Zechariah, Amos, Isaiah, Daniel, and Revelation. You will see it. You will not see the LORD conquering Europe or Russia or China or the Americas.
Read the Quran and compare the coming 12th Imam, the final Khalifate, with the antichrist of the Bible. You will find them to be an exact match.

Have you ever thought that the Ottoman Empire IS ROME. Think about it... the fourth empire becomes split into 2 empires, Rome and Istanbul. The Byzantium Empire was conquered by Muslims that were based in a previously BYZANTIUM region and took over Istanbul making it their capital. It was therefore not a new empire, but was taken over from within the Byzantium Empire. Thus the cities of Rome remain in power, just as predicted. The fourth empire, definitely Rome in sequence, crushed Persia through the Ottomans and will do it again soon when the West invades Iran.

[Kahtar]

Have you ever thought that the Ottoman Empire IS ROME. Think about it... the fourth empire becomes split into 2 empires, Rome and Istanbul. The Byzantium Empire was conquered by Muslims that were based in a previously BYZANTIUM region and took over Istanbul making it their capital. It was therefore not a new empire, but was taken over from within the Byzantium Empire. Thus the cities of Rome remain in power, just as predicted. The fourth empire, definitely Rome in sequence, crushed Persia through the Ottomans and will do it again soon when the West invades Iran.

Now that I look into it a bit further, while I still see the fact that Rome never took Babylon as a problem, I'm inclined to agree that the 4th kingdom in the statue is Rome, simply because it was divided in two.
But, I do not agree that the Ottoman Empire was simply an extension of the Roman. By your logic, the Persian Empire would actually be the Babylonian, because those who conquered the Babylonian were a part of it, and the same with the Greek.
No, the Arab caliphate and Ottoman Empire conquered the Byzantine, and it became the 7th empire.
Here's something to consider. At the time of John, the Roman Empire was in power, thus the angel spoke regarding the seven heads that 'five are fallen and one is'.
The 'one is' is the Roman of course. Now, the angel also said that the beast 'was, and is not'.
Which means that it could not be the Roman. Roman 'is', while the beast kingdom 'was, and is not'.
That makes the beast kingdom one of the five that are fallen. And that simply to show, I believe, where the ac will arise from, that being Turkey.
Irregardless, all eight heads are from the same single beast, who gets his power from the dragon. All eight are influenced, controlled, by Satan.
The seven hills that the beast sits on are not literal physical hills, but rather is an allusion to the seven empires, and their seven kings.

[DurbanDude]

Now that I look into it a bit further, while I still see the fact that Rome never took Babylon as a problem, I'm inclined to agree that the 4th kingdom in the statue is Rome, simply because it was divided in two.
But, I do not agree that the Ottoman Empire was simply an extension of the Roman. By your logic, the Persian Empire would actually be the Babylonian, because those who conquered the Babylonian were a part of it, and the same with the Greek.
No, the Arab caliphate and Ottoman Empire conquered the Byzantine, and it became the 7th empire.

.

I could be wrong about this, but I've done some quick research and it appears the Babylonians never conquered the Persian capital, and the Persians never conquered Greeks. Additionally neither empire made the conquered capital city their immediate capital city. Thus I disagree with you here. The caliphs saw the Roman Empire as great and moved their caliph into the capital and made it their capital unlike other conquered cities where there was no immediate attempt to take on the capital and titles of the conquered city.

Here's something to consider. At the time of John, the Roman Empire was in power, thus the angel spoke regarding the seven heads that 'five are fallen and one is'.
The 'one is' is the Roman of course. Now, the angel also said that the beast 'was, and is not'.
Which means that it could not be the Roman. Roman 'is', while the beast kingdom 'was, and is not'.
That makes the beast kingdom one of the five that are fallen. And that simply to show, I believe, where the ac will arise from, that being Turkey.
Irregardless, all eight heads are from the same single beast, who gets his power from the dragon. All eight are influenced, controlled, by Satan.
The seven hills that the beast sits on are not literal physical hills, but rather is an allusion to the seven empires, and their seven kings

Daniel 2 says Rome will have 3 stages:
IRON: Rome
IRON/CLAY: Divided Rome (clay represents religion - 2 religious empires)
TEN TOES: Ten Regions

Rev17 says
IRON: The 6th head is Rome, the empire that "is" (I agree with you on this)
IRON/CLAY: 7th head is another world power (a wounded empire?)
TEN TOES: 8th one is represented by the ten horned beast

Rev 13 says
IRON/CLAY: There is a two horned empire that has both political and religious authority over all the earth
TEN TOES: It sets up the ten horned beast.

Rev 17 says
IRON/CLAY: There is a harlot city that rules over kings of the earth (Rome) - one of the two great cities
TEN TOES: The ten horned beast that ceased to exist, then re-arises.

I see the consistent thread here, there is a two-part empire that cleanly fits into the role of the 7th empire, it can be described in many ways:

Pope and Caliph
Rome and Istanbul
W.Europe and Turkey
The West and The Middle East
RCI and Islam

You think that the power will shift to Islam, I believe it will remain an international co-operation between east and west, the great wound will be healed, East and West combine.

[Kahtar]

I could be wrong about this, but I've done some quick research and it appears the Babylonians never conquered the Persian capital, and the Persians never conquered Greeks.

I certainly agree with this. I hope you weren't trying to twist my words here. I did not say the Babylonians conquered the Persian capital.............

Additionally neither empire made the conquered capital city their immediate capital city. Thus I disagree with you here. The caliphs saw the Roman Empire as great and moved their caliph into the capital and made it their capital unlike other conquered cities where there was no immediate attempt to take on the capital and titles of the conquered city.

I thought we were discussing empires, not capitals. I don't care about capitals.
]quote]Daniel 2 says Rome will have 3 stages: [/quote]No, it says the the kingdom (it does not identify it as Rome)

Rev 17 says
IRON/CLAY: There is a harlot city that rules over kings of the earth (Rome) - one of the two great cities
TEN TOES: The ten horned beast that ceased to exist, then re-arises.

Again, it doesn't identify it as Rome.
Here's another thing to consider:
If the harlot city is Rome, and the beast is a revived Roman Empire, why does the beast hate the harlot and destroy her with fire?

[DurbanDude]

Here's another thing to consider:
If the harlot city is Rome, and the beast is a revived Roman Empire, why does the beast hate the harlot and destroy her with fire?

The harlot city is Rome, the beast empire is the new Middle eastern empire that is arising that is west friendly and being created by the West. Thus the empire of Rome (western europe) is creating the beast empire, of the Middle East, with Israel at its centre.

One of the heads of the beast is revived from a deadly wound (Rome was divided, and then Rome is re-uniting now)
This is a different event to the beast that was and is not. This is Israel which rose out of Western support during WW1 and re-appeared to the amazement of the world, but predicted by Christians.

Woman = Western Europe
Beast = Israel - head nation of the future superstate.

Most of the world will hate Rome and Europe's influence over them.

[Kahtar]

The harlot city is Rome, the beast empire is the new Middle eastern empire that is arising that is west friendly and being created by the West. Thus the empire of Rome (western europe) is creating the beast empire, of the Middle East, with Israel at its centre.

One of the heads of the beast is revived from a deadly wound (Rome was divided, and then Rome is re-uniting now)
This is a different event to the beast that was and is not. This is Israel which rose out of Western support during WW1 and re-appeared to the amazement of the world, but predicted by Christians.

Woman = Western Europe
Beast = Israel

So you believe that Israel hates Rome/Western Europe and will burn her with fire, utterly destroying her?

[DurbanDude]

So you believe that Israel hates Rome/Western Europe and will burn her with fire, utterly destroying her?

Well to be accurate, its the ten horns that hate the whore, not the beast. I edited my post, cos you right it didnt make sense. I believe Israel's ally, Rome, will be burnt before the Israel invasion, because although Israel creates world unity, the bible predicts this final invasion from the north and the east.

[Kahtar]

Here are some questions for you:
How did the kings of the earth commit fornication with Rome?
How have the inhabitants of the earth been made drunk with her wine?
What IS her wine?
Why did the angel carry John away into a desert to see the woman? Is Rome in a desert?

[DurbanDude]

Here are some questions for you:
How did the kings of the earth commit fornication with Rome?
?

I believe the "harlot city" represents Rome and western Europe for the whole period since Rev was written, not just during the Roman Empire, but also the current Vatican. Thus you will find the purple and scarlet robes, golden cups, jewels, blasphemous titles, in the city before and after the division of the Roman Empire.

To answer your question then, during the past the kings of the earth had to pay tribute before the iron might of Rome, as vassal states. During the Holy Rome stage kings had to follow the instructions of Rome or else be excommunicated or invaded by obedient Catholic countries. Currently it is similar, the Pope still struts around like an emperor , his support around the world is immense so countries have to bend to his will. Not only that there is an unofficial interelationship between Europe and Rome, Rome's personnel, people especially committed to the Vatican's cause are embedded in the most powerful positions in Europe. Rome shares the same symbols as Europe , the woman with the twelve stars is the most significant symbol of both organisations. And the Pope is the unofficial emperor of Europe, wearing the robes of an emperor when he makes his papal visits across Europe. Even his three crowns represented being king of Germany, of Italy, and Emperor of Rome. Through the economic power of Europe, all nations have been forced to sign trade agreements and join up into regional trading blocs to have favorable trading agreements with the EU. Result: the countries of the world have sold themselves and their autonomy to compete in a global market with the might of the EU.

How have the inhabitants of the earth been made drunk with her wine?
What IS her wine?

I think the wine is symbolic of her corruptive influence over earth. It is also a strong symbol of the RCI, the wine being Jesus blood, rather than just representing Jesus' blood. And so the wine represents incorrect doctrine corrupting the earth through the worldwide catholic church, and their all embracing ecumenical movement which includes Moslems as part of the true faith.

Why did the angel carry John away into a desert to see the woman? Is Rome in a desert

The woman sits on the waters (controls the Meditteranean). Then in the wilderness the woman sits on the beast. This means that Rome/West will extend her control from the Meditteranean to also control the new union in the Middle East.

17:1-3 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

So the woman is first over the waters, and THEN the woman is seen sitting on the beast in the wilderness. An amusing and interesting observation, this is the symbol of the EU, the goddess Europa sitting on the bull.

[John 8:32]

The woman sits on the waters (controls the Meditteranean). Then in the wilderness the woman sits on the beast. This means that Rome/West will extend her control from the Meditteranean to also control the new union in the Middle East.


[/COLOR]So the woman is first over the waters, and THEN the woman is seen sitting on the beast in the wilderness. An amusing and interesting observation, this is the symbol of the EU, the goddess Europa sitting on the bull.

Waters = Nations, Peoples

[DurbanDude]

Waters = Nations, Peoples

This is a common belief but I wonder where in the bible it comes from.

[Kahtar]

Probably from right here:
Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.