Article: Occupy This

[Sojourner55]

You can view the page at http://bibleforums.org/content.php/1...he-occupiers..

[Redeemed by Grace]

Hi SJ,

Your title and opening paragraph lead me to think you were in support of the enduring civil disobedience that many in this country and even around the world - who feel it's society and government's role to provide for and maintain a standard of life style that one either desires or is accustomed to. But I soon learned that you change gears and offer the contrary, for which I see a biblical and foundational base of agreement.

Many folks if not all, Christian and non-Christian alike, are comparative in their thought process, and in that -- lusts for what others may have and what they have not. It's human [I say sin] nature to compare one's lot in life to another, sometimes in rationalization, many times in lust... and I doubt that any of these 'protestors' realize that they lust after something they think they deserve and judge others to not have, instead of giving from what they do have.... Just think about the thousands of folks in protest who demand to be given, if instead gave to those less fortunate as they judge themselves worthy if they wanted to compare their lot in life than to demand to get from others who 'have more.'

Isn't it ironic that these folks demand money and wealth from those who they find fault with in doing the same thing? Oh that speck and that plank...

Forgive us Lord, for we miss position our wants and desires over your glory and we are sinful in our lusts and self-centeredness.

[Sojourner55]

I wanted to make it clear that I think it's unjust for some people in the world to be starving, while others scrape uneaten caviar in the garbage. I didn't want any detractor derailing the post by bewailing the wrongness of "social injustice," and accusing me of being heartless. Actually, in retrospect, the title may cause some people to pass it by--if the length of the article doesn't.

You know, a hiring agency visited one of the protest sites with a stack of applications for some extremely good employment opportunities--yet not a single one of those who were there because they had nothing else to do, was amenable. So basically, we have people who don't want a job, demanding a share of the money from those who do. Dang if that ain't along the lines of entitlement mentality, huh?

[Redeemed by Grace]

Hi again SJ,

Hmmm... I see the world differently I guess, for nothing in life is fair, nor is fairness an entitlement from God, for Jesus so declared that there will always be the poor Matthew 26:11 "For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have Me.

The Beatitudes focus on dependance and need of God, which results in inheritance of salvation, and the charge of those who are given much will be judged accordingly... which to all and every one of us have abundance as God has given.... IF I have but nothing, yet I have Christ, a wealthy man am I!

My comments go that we compare our lives to our neighbor and say why do they have over us instead of saying how can I be their blessing of God. This global movement, IMHO, is the misplaced anger that others have more and they have less... that they protest not for an injustice of a liberty, but for the transference of wealth, which I fault global leadership with sparking that notion. The folks in Greece want what they have always had, as too with Italy and soon Spain.... and just wait until the US declares more taxes and cut backs and see all the furor of entitlements and 'rights'.

These protestors don't understand charity from within, for again if they did, their heart would conform to obedience and love and if Christian would live under authority testifying to Christ who is within them, but instead offer civil disobedience saying it's a voice to be heard, when the best voice is one who shares from his abundance instead of demanding to be feed.


My 2cents.

[Sojourner55]

Wise words, Redeemed. I agree with your sentiments exactly. Your comments are appreciated, and, I feel, reflect a spiritual maturity and Biblical context of this earthly existence that is so lacking in the minds of most today. I agree that covetousness is at the root of the "occupations", as well as much of the problems in the world. I see a potential danger of our government exploiting the mindset of those able-bodied people who feel they are entitled to some of what others have, even though they refuse to contribute.

Biblical teachings that admonish us to store up treasure in heaven rather than earthly, material possessions; that we be content with what we have; and to focus on matters pertaining to eternal existence rather than the temporal, are almost non-existent today--even among many professing Christians. I fear we are past the tipping point of America's "transformation," and that Americans are unwittingly handing over the next generation of our citizens to the oppressive, socialist system that already controls most of the world.

[Bryce]

I wanted to make it clear that I think it's unjust for some people in the world to be starving, while others scrape uneaten caviar in the garbage. I didn't want any detractor derailing the post by bewailing the wrongness of "social injustice," and accusing me of being heartless. Actually, in retrospect, the title may cause some people to pass it by--if the length of the article doesn't.

You know, a hiring agency visited one of the protest sites with a stack of applications for some extremely good employment opportunities--yet not a single one of those who were there because they had nothing else to do, was amenable. So basically, we have people who don't want a job, demanding a share of the money from those who do. Dang if that ain't along the lines of entitlement mentality, huh?

Who are you to judge them? Because you heard that a hiring agency went to a protest site with applications and no one applied. Maybe many people have given up filling out applications because they are always told "no." Christ commanded us to feed the hungry. Have you no compassion for the unemployed person who is unable to find work but still has to feed their children.

[Liquid Tension]

Maybe many people have given up filling out applications because they are always told "no."

Does this mean that they should stop trying?? I know it's fustrating. I've been through it. When I first moved to Hilo, I was unemployed for a year and a half. I filled out a ton of applications, gave resumes, went online.....in all that time, I had 4, yes 4 interviews (the last being the one that hired me). Again, I never stopped applying places. I got layed off 2 months ago......again, I'm doing the whole app., resume, online thing, and guess what? 0 calls yet, despite the holiday season starting. I'm not going to stop.

Have you no compassion for the unemployed person who is unable to find work but still has to feed their children.

Let's not confuse the difference between the person who is unemployed because he/she is unable to find work with the person who refuses to work.

[Sojourner55]

Who are you to judge them? Because you heard that a hiring agency went to a protest site with applications and no one applied. Maybe many people have given up filling out applications because they are always told "no."

And maybe they didn't want a job. Do you believe that out of all those poor, hard-working people--so desperately needing an income to feed their families--not a single one viewed filling out a job application as more expedient than not filling one out? Is having been turned down by employers in the past a valid reason to turn down a good job offer, and instead, stand around doing nothing? Yeah, that'll sure put food on the table.

I don't doubt there are some people among them willing to work if given the chance (though I have yet to see a "WILL WORK FOR FOOD" sign among the assortment of signs being waved around). Yet, it seems to me, the unemployed who really do want to work ought to be mad at Obama, instead of Wall Street. Wall Street has been making money for a long time, and only now is it being vilified by those in economic distress. A lack of Jobs and the recession are the real cause of our economic instability, and Obama must shoulder much of the blame for the joblessness.

In 2007, when Bush left office, unemployment was at 4.6. After 3 years with Obama at the helm, unemployment hit 9.6 in 2010--and is still well above 8% a year later. (And a lot of people are still looking for those "shovel-ready" jobs he promised). Obama promised to cut the deficit in half by the middle of his second term, but instead tripled it in his first year.

He also bailed out a number of huge corporations--which immediately gave millions of the money in bonuses to their top executives. Hundreds of millions in tax dollars have gone into various fly-by-night "green" companies--which have gone belly up, and management can't seem to account for all of the money.

Obama cannot rightly be blamed for all our economic troubles, but he has to bear responsibility for a great deal of it. Today’s massive deficits are the result of not only the recession, but his "stimulus package" and other failed attempts to "spend our way out" of the recession. Wall Street makes money--that's what they do. And they've been doing it for a very long time, yet, never before now has Wall Street been the target of public anger over economic problems caused by the failed leadership of the sitting President.

Blaming successful Wall Street investors for economic problems produced by the destructive policies and bad leadership of the President is asinine. And so is blaming an institution from which millions are being made by many of the same politicians, celebrities, and pundits who are cheering on the protests against that institution--including your millionaire President.

Christ commanded us to feed the hungry. Have you no compassion for the unemployed person who is unable to find work but still has to feed their children.

Yes He did. And yes, I do. But understand that Jesus exhorted acts of charity by those who have enough to share with others, and are willing to do so. That's a far cry from the government-mandated redistribution of wealth being demanded by the protesters, some who have--by choice, never worked, but instead have made a living by being a human parasite. I personally like what one of Jesus' Apostles said: For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
(2 Thess 3:10)

[hallowedbe]

Does this mean that they should stop trying?? I know it's fustrating. I've been through it. When I first moved to Hilo, I was unemployed for a year and a half. I filled out a ton of applications, gave resumes, went online.....in all that time, I had 4, yes 4 interviews (the last being the one that hired me). Again, I never stopped applying places. I got layed off 2 months ago......again, I'm doing the whole app., resume, online thing, and guess what? 0 calls yet, despite the holiday season starting. I'm not going to stop.



Let's not confuse the difference between the person who is unemployed because he/she is unable to find work with the person who refuses to work.

That is me. I am in my early 70s and lost my job in June. I am collecting a tiny unemployment check because I was working part time to complement my also small pension. All my life I have worked hard as a public school teacher. Because of family illness and me being the only elderly parent caregiver, I lost a lot of my pension during those caregiver years. Now, here I am, no family, close friends mostly all dead, regular churchgoer (churches are in a world of hurt too - parishioners can't give what they don't have), strong faith, but there are days when it all seems impossible. I am looking for work, but this season isn't conducive to it, I guess. Maybe next year. But, we need to pray for each other. I consider myself a genuine 99%er. Was Jesus a capitalist? As I read the Bible, it appears he is more of a socialist>don't lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, et al. Whatever, God is God and He is in control. I have to believe that.

[Sojourner55]

Hello hallowedbe,
I 'm sorry things are so tough for you, and hope things have improved since you posted this comment. Please don't take my position as one of apathy for people suffering as a result of the current economic situation. I should tell you, that while I'm semi-retired, and draw a meager retirement check, I have been looking for work for a long time, and my prospects remain dismal. I feel very strongly that those who cannot help themselves, such as the elderly and disabled, should be cared for; and our society has done a pretty good job of doing that up to this point. And those who want to work should be given the opportunity to do so.

My beef is with able-bodied individuals who choose not to work, and who feel a sense of entitlement. That attitude is prevalent among the occupiers, as revealed by their own words. Most people who are feeling the pinch today are not out there among the protesters, but are instead taking the initiative, and starting a small business, working two jobs, or anything that will put food on the table, and pay the bills. They don't have free time like the students who are given time off from school to be there, or union workers getting paid to be there. Many, if not most of the protesters are young and radical-minded, calling for the overthrow of our government, yet giving no thought to what system will take its place. And for many, its just a big party, where they can hang out. (If they are so strapped for cash, how can they afford the drugs, cell phones and laptops frequently seen?) High unemployment and an outrageous national debt on top of a recession are at the core of our economic problems, and Barack Obama is responsible for most of those second two factors, not Wall Street.

[thomasmind]

Hi again SJ,

Hmmm... I see the world differently I guess, for nothing in life is fair, nor is fairness an entitlement from God, for Jesus so declared that there will always be the poor Matthew 26:11 "For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have Me.

The Beatitudes focus on dependance and need of God, which results in inheritance of salvation, and the charge of those who are given much will be judged accordingly... which to all and every one of us have abundance as God has given.... IF I have but nothing, yet I have Christ, a wealthy man am I!

One thing that always gets missed is how completely and wonderfuly brilliant believers are! This response is brilliant!With that said,

I did enjoy your article and I am reminded of so many things. One is the memory of Jesus walking through the Bazaar mad because of the new Roman money. He warned them to give the money back. In Abroiginal societies like the Batek and San the people do not starve, and we call them primitive will millions of children are hungry right now and Oprah gives out a few cars while she ges fatter on every product we buy through television comercial payments.

I am also remended of the most important thing. Yes in life we suffer, and yes in life the system in place is not fair, but when we leave this Earth and are born of spirit we will remember how this system does not work when we exist in a system a billion times more complex, which does work. Gods kingdom is on a dimension which makes this one like a sheet of paper. A place of complete sustainability, which I do not think humans can ever achieve. We will remember how we suffered and how this system is not fair when we are in Gods system which is fair, beautiful, sustainable, and perfect.

"Do not forget what you learn in this life, in the next life the lesons of this day will remind you." -Thomas Mind, Walking Your Path Of Peace - 2010