possible solution to 1 Cor. 14:21-25

[Slug1]

Again, Peter did not speak his natural language; it says very clearly that he and the others spoke in other tongues (v. 4).

Yes... then as they poured out of the building into the streets the Holy Spirit manifested what puts clarity to the meaning of "different kinds of tongues"... Peter began to preach in his native language but all those of different nationalities both Jew and Gentile heard the preaching in their own personal native language.

Acts 2:6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

v⁸ And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?

As we see later, this kind of tongues doesn't require the manifestation of the gift of interpretation of tongues through another person to bring edification to those listening. If that kind of the gift of different kinds of tongues is manifested, then a second gift is necessary. The kind Peter was speaking doesn't.

Clearly different kinds of tongues per 1 Cor 12:10.

[Nihil Obstat]

Okay, concerning whether Peter and the disciples were speaking their own language (which the text does not at all support) or other languages (as Luke clearly states in v. 4), I am finished discussing here. I fail to see how it has anything to do with my point in creating this thread. Please comment concerning my main point.

[Slug1]

Okay, concerning whether Peter and the disciples were speaking their own language (which the text does not at all support) or other languages (as Luke clearly states in v. 4), I am finished discussing here. I fail to see how it has anything to do with my point in creating this thread. Please comment concerning my main point.

See post #21 then

[Nihil Obstat]

You know, this wouldn't be the first instance within the NT where Scripture is being mis-used. When Jesus was being tested in the wilderness after His baptism, the devil quoted Ps. 91:11-12 in the hopes that Jesus would throw Himself down from atop the temple, and perhaps be caught by angels before hitting the ground. This really is no different here: the Corinthians are using Scripture, and Paul is using Scripture back, almost like two dueling wizards casting spells upon one another.

[Slug1]

You know, this wouldn't be the first instance within the NT where Scripture is being mis-used. When Jesus was being tested in the wilderness after His baptism, the devil quoted Ps. 91:11-12 in the hopes that Jesus would throw Himself down from atop the temple, and perhaps be caught by angels before hitting the ground. This really is no different here: the Corinthians are using Scripture, and Paul is using Scripture back, almost like two dueling wizards casting spells upon one another.

Seems more that Paul is correcting the Corinthians in the proper use of a specific gift of the Holy Spirit and also given... is why! So the Corinthians understand the negative effect of improper use of that gift has upon those without faith in Christ or unbelievers of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, manifest through the Body of Christ.

This is a supernatural gift and for those without faith or unbelievers of the gifts of the Holy Spirit... they'll think us nuts if exercised without the discipline instructed by Paul.

[Nihil Obstat]

This is a supernatural gift and for those without faith or unbelievers of the gifts of the Holy Spirit... they'll think us nuts if exercised without the discipline instructed by Paul.

Okay, but the passage itself isn't talking about unbelievers of the gifts, but unbelievers of Jesus - and I don't see faith playing a part here either: if you're a member of the body, you have a gift that supports the life of the body; an eye doesn't exert "faith" in order to see, nor does an ear need "faith" to hear, but these parts of the body (especially of Christ's body, which is in focus here) work thusly naturally on their own, for this is how God composed the body. (I'm a nit-picker, sorry!)

[Slug1]

Okay, but the passage itself isn't talking about unbelievers of the gifts, but unbelievers of Jesus - and I don't see faith playing a part here either: if you're a member of the body, you have a gift that supports the life of the body; an eye doesn't exert "faith" in order to see, nor does an ear need "faith" to hear, but these parts of the body (especially of Christ's body, which is in focus here) work thusly naturally on their own, for this is how God composed the body. (I'm a nit-picker, sorry!)

Yet the "natural" working of the Body doesn't happen anymore because some parts of the Body have introduced man made doctrines that stop that natural coordination between all the parts.

How is the entire Body to work and function properly when parts don't even believe in all the parts operating in all the Gifts that God has given to the Body, through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit? Some eyes or ears stop believing or never believe because their doctrine says they don't work anymore. So they refuse to be obedient to the empowerment of the Holy Spirit and those as an eye or an ear... they render the Body powerless or unbalanced and effectively non-functioning properly according to the scriptures. Compound that with those today who are in the same error as the Corinthians were, and this makes it even worse for the Body of Christ.

This is why I figure the term "unbelievers" also encompasses those who have faith in Christ but don't "believe".

[Nihil Obstat]

Good post: I could agree with that.

[Nihil Obstat]

Slug, I've been thinking more on this, and you're so right - it's so sad. I think cessationism probably stems from misunderstanding "the perfect" as the closing of the canon, when it really pertains to the maturity of the body (as in Eph. 4:11-16), or put simply, love. "In part" has to do with non-communication between the members of the body. But once the body functions properly, then the eye can fully enlighten the body, and the ear can fully attune the body, and the feet can fully propel the body, all parts operating in tandem and for the sake of the whole, under the direction of the head, who is Christ. Therefore the gifts do not come to an end "when the perfect comes", but quite oppositely function to their full capacity, for Christ's heavenly body no longer slumbers, and will never again die. Amen!

[Slug1]

Slug, I've been thinking more on this, and you're so right - it's so sad. I think cessationism probably stems from misunderstanding "the perfect" as the closing of the canon, when it really pertains to the maturity of the body (as in Eph. 4:11-16), or put simply, love. "In part" has to do with non-communication between the members of the body. But once the body functions properly, then the eye can fully enlighten the body, and the ear can fully attune the body, and the feet can fully propel the body, all parts operating in tandem and for the sake of the whole, under the direction of the head, who is Christ. Therefore the gifts do not come to an end "when the perfect comes", but quite oppositely function to their full capacity, for Christ's heavenly body no longer slumbers, and will never again die. Amen!

Hooah, AMEN!

Keep this in mind also... when a specific Body of Christ (any given church) says that they don't need the gift of tongues because they are "mature", this is a false belief birthed of that doctrine.

Any given moment a person walks in off the street and sits down in that church... they are NOT so mature anymore, are they. When that person listens and accepts Christ, the church has a milk drinker amongst all those meat eaters... are the meat eaters gonna stop God from manifesting any specific Gift of the Holy Spirit for the help and blessing toward that new Christian.

They won't do it and this is why they show NO love as God would show that new Christian love.

When Christ returns, tongues, prophetic words and words of knowledge will end... WHY?

This is because the "perfect" is available face to face as per the scriptures. You will find out that the cessationist doctrine is based solely on a single scripture and that one is 1 Cor 13:10. When you discuss the context of that single scripture with the full context of the Word of God, especially verses 11-13 and this reveals that the perfect is about a relationship and also "face to face" with the perfect... they ignore that scripture and will NOT discuss it. Some will but not in accordance of scripture, they sideline it as meaning something else and the randomness of what that meaning is, changes from person to person so I cannot give you an example of how they sideline away from those scriptures that according to scripture, support that the PERFECT is Jesus and when He returns, we'll be face to face with the Perfect.