What is the "Eternal Life" Which is in the Son?

[JerryShugart]

So this verse implies that only those who continue in faith are guaranteed to continue in eternal life.

Let at look at the following verse:
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).

Kenneth S. Wuest writes the following in regard to the Greek words translated "whosoever believes": "'whoever believes' = 'pas ho pisteuon' = relative pronoun with a participle verb functioning as a noun, lit. 'everyone who is believing'...Contrary to objectors who insist that Jn 3:16 stipulates everyone who maintains a constant state of believing as result of the phrase 'whoever believes' = 'pas ho pisteuon', the form of the verb to believe is not a present tense form but it is actually a nominative, singular, masculine, present active participle, i.e., a participle acting as a noun indicating 'one who believes' [in Christ as Savior], i.e., a believer. The participle acting as a noun does not require a perfection of continuous action such as continuous believing in order for an individual to be qualified as a believer" (Wuest, Wuest's Word Studies, Vol. 3, [Eerdmans Publishing Co, 1992], p. 67).

Everyone who is believing now (not believing and continuing to believe) already possesses eternal life and shall not perish. Besides that, anyone who believes with their heart will always believe the truth, as witnessed by John's words here:

"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.1-2).

[Bandit]

Let at look at the following verse:
...

Jerry, I hope you will understand this, but we need to first discuss my previous post (about John 5:24) before we move on to any other "eternal security" verses. You've not actually responded to my comments about John 5:24, but rather just jumped to a new verse. We need to really discuss John 5:24 before we move on. (And remember, you brought John 5:24 up.) If we can look at John 5:24 honestly, then we can look at other verses honestly, but if we can't conduct an honest discussion concerning John 5:24, then I see no need jumping to other "eternal security" verses for which honest discussions will be equally difficult and unlikely.

[JerryShugart]

Jerry, I hope you will understand this, but we need to first discuss my previous post (about John 5:24) before we move on to any other "eternal security" verses. You've not actually responded to my comments about John 5:24, but rather just jumped to a new verse. We need to really discuss John 5:24 before we move on. (And remember, you brought John 5:24 up.) If we can look at John 5:24 honestly, then we can look at other verses honestly, but if we can't conduct an honest discussion concerning John 5:24, then I see no need jumping to other "eternal security" verses for which honest discussions will be equally difficult and unlikely.

Let us have an honest discussion about the verse:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (Jn.5:24).

You said:

"Shall not come" is from a Greek present indicative. This Greek tense more often than not conveys a present continuous or repeated action.

If you are right and the words "shall not come" convey a present CONTINUOUS action then the phrase "shall not come into judgment" is continuouos and will not change. There will be no time when the ones who have already believed will come into judgment.

Besides that the Lord's words that those who believe "shall not come into judgment" is an UNCONDITIONAL statement which means that there are no conditions attached to the statement that those who are believing "shall not come into judgment." That is something which will not happen. Those who believed Him when He spoke His words "shall not come into judgment."

But you say that there is a possibility that they can come into judgment, and that idea directly contradicts what the Lord Jesus said. We can also see that those who believe "have eternal life" and here is what the Savior says about those to whom He has given eternal life:"

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.5:28).

The Lord says that those who "believe" already possess eternal life, and the Lord Jesus says that those to whom He has given eternal life "shall never perish." But you say that they can perish!

[Desperaux]

Can you give references that prove these points? Where does it say we can choose in the new creation whereas in the old creation we couldn't?

Are you saying that once we are saved we become religious robots and do not have a choice but to continually without fail obey God? Please show me in scripture.

1 John 2:1
My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.

so I take that as "yes, our choosing to believe is apart from God's choosing"?

It is in conjunction with God's will for us. Exercising our faith is our part.

so you agree that believers who do good works will get eternal life then?

Believers of all levels of consecration will receive eternal life.

[Bandit]

If you are right and the words "shall not come" convey a present CONTINUOUS action then the phrase "shall not come into judgment" is continuouos and will not change. There will be no time when the ones who have already believed will come into judgment.

Besides that the Lord's words that those who believe "shall not come into judgment" is an UNCONDITIONAL statement which means that there are no conditions attached to the statement that those who are believing "shall not come into judgment." That is something which will not happen. Those who believed Him when He spoke His words "shall not come into judgment."

But you say that there is a possibility that they can come into judgment, and that idea directly contradicts what the Lord Jesus said. ...

Hello Jerry,

Thanks for responding. There is also the point (I don't think mentioned in my previous post) that the hearing and believing in John 5:24 also indicates an ongoing action. So those who are presently not coming into judgement are also those who are presently hearing and believing. So the state of being saved (shall not come under judgement) is tied to the state of hearing and believing. Now John 5:24 says nothing about anyone who might believe for a while and then fall away (as like those in the Parable of the Sower in Luke 8:13). So to try to claim that there is no condition in John 5:24 is fail to understand what the verse actually affirms: it affirms that those who are actively hearing and believing are actively not under judgement. This verse does not in any way promise that a subsequent "coming into judgement" (because of subsequent unfaithfulness) cannot happen; it just promises such to those who are in an active state of belief.

So I hope you can see the connection here. This verse does not teach or prove OSAS in any way, it simply connects ongoing forgiveness with an ongoing hearing and belief.

[david]

Are you saying that once we are saved we become religious robots and do not have a choice but to continually without fail obey God? Please show me in scripture.1 John 2:1My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.It is in conjunction with God's will for us. Exercising our faith is our part.Believers of all levels of consecration will receive eternal life.

• We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10
• it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13
• Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” John 6:29
  
• we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:28-30
• What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— Romans 9:22-23
• He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. Romans 9:15-1
• Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Psalm 139:16
• No one has power over the spirit to retain the spirit, And no one has power in the day of death. There is no release from that war, And wickedness will not deliver those who are given to it. Ecclesiastes 8:8

[JerryShugart]

Thanks for responding. There is also the point (I don't think mentioned in my previous post) that the hearing and believing in John 5:24 also indicates an ongoing action. So those who are presently not coming into judgement are also those who are presently hearing and believing.

So were you wrong when you said the following?:

"Shall not come" is from a Greek present indicative. This Greek tense more often than not conveys a present continuous or repeated action.

If you are right and the words "shall not come" convey a present CONTINUOUS action then the phrase "shall not come into judgment" is continuouos and will not change. There will be no time when the ones who have already believed will come into judgment.

So to try to claim that there is no condition in John 5:24 is fail to understand what the verse actually affirms: it affirms that those who are actively hearing and believing are actively not under judgement.

When we examine the verse we can see that the receiving of eternal life is not dependent on a "continuous" believing because those believing now are said to already have "eternal life." And the same thing can be said about the assurance of not coming into judgment and passing from death unto life.

If the receiving of those things depend on a "continuous" believing then the Lord would have said that those who believe "will have eternal life." But that is not what He said:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (Jn.5:24).

This verse does not teach or prove OSAS in any way, it simply connects ongoing forgiveness with an ongoing hearing and belief.

You are wrong. Those who are believing now are told that they already possess eternal life. And here is what the Lord Jesus says about those who have already received eternal life:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.5:28).

[episkopos]

So were you wrong when you said the following?:



If you are right and the words "shall not come" convey a present CONTINUOUS action then the phrase "shall not come into judgment" is continuouos and will not change. There will be no time when the ones who have already believed will come into judgment.



When we examine the verse we can see that the receiving of eternal life is not dependent on a "continuous" believing because those believing now are said to already have "eternal life." And the same thing can be said about the assurance of not coming into judgment and passing from death unto life.

If the receiving of those things depend on a "continuous" believing then the Lord would have said that those who believe "will have eternal life." But that is not what He said:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (Jn.5:24).



You are wrong. Those who are believing now are told that they already possess eternal life. And here is what the Lord Jesus says about those who have already received eternal life:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.5:28).

A man cannot "possess" eternal life. No one has their own personal Holy Spirit. Eternal life is in a specific location, and that location is Christ. Once a man is in Christ nothing can remove him from there....save the man of his own free will leaving of his own accord....or else being successfully enticed away through his own lusts.

[Desperaux]

• We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10
• it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13
• Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” John 6:29
• we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:28-30
• What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— Romans 9:22-23
• He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. Romans 9:15-1
• Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Psalm 139:16
• No one has power over the spirit to retain the spirit, And no one has power in the day of death. There is no release from that war, And wickedness will not deliver those who are given to it. Ecclesiastes 8:8

While all those are marvelous words from God, they in no way declare that we do not have choices to make about how far we will go into our own sanctification. Some Christians stop at 'feel good' and become complacently inert. Others remain milk drinkers, returning to the well only in times of duress, while many others go Gung Ho in their faith, abandoning themselves into the powerful anointing of Holy Spirit, and turfing their own personal agendas for God's great plan! It is all about YIELDEDNESS! Scripture is always urging us forward.

[percho]

Eternal life is the gift of God that comes by Promise. We inherit it, Eternal Life. For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. Gal 3:18 It was A promise made before the beginning of time. In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2 Just who was it made to? Gal. 3:16 To Abraham and his one seed Christ.
Abraham has not yet received the promise. Heb. 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises. Well, who else was it made to? Any and all accounts of the rich young ruler Matthew, Mark or Luke.
Good Master what must I do to inherit eternal life? Does the prophet Jesus equate inheriting eternal life in these passages to to enter the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom of God. Jphn 1:14 The word was made flesh. 1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
Who beside Abraham were the promises made to? His one seed Christ. Gal 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed (of Abraham) should come to whom the promise was made; 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by the water only, but by the water and the blood.

When did the seed of Abraham receive/inherit the promise of eternal life made for him before time begin?????

Was it through faith he received the promises?

Did the receiving of the promise of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit) come to us because of the faith of Christ? From Acts 2:33 we see that Christ received it from the Father, then to us (Acts 2:33 he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear) by Gal 3:22 that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. The promise, see Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;


that we might receive the promise of the Spirit How??? through the faith. The definite article is in the Greek. It is through the faith of Jesus Christ we might receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.

When did God the Father make this statement unto the only begotten of the Father, the seed of Abraham who was obedient unto death, even the death of the cross, "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten (borne) thee."?

Did the shedding forth of the Holy Spirit to us making us heirs of eternal life follow the regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit to someone? Titus 3:5-7
by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We are joint heirs of God with Jesus who has inherited.

[ProjectPeter]

Same Lord said this.

Mark 10:30 *but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

Makes a clear distinction between the now and that age to come. Perhaps folks misunderstand some things... call that a hunch.

[percho]

Same Lord said this.

Mark 10:30 *but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

Makes a clear distinction between the now and that age to come. Perhaps folks misunderstand some things... call that a hunch.

Correct PP see my post of which I understand you will not totally agree with . That's OK.

[John 8:32]

Direct answer to OP's question...

Eternal life is the opposite of what we have right now. We currently have a temporary electro-chemical existence that has as an end result, death. We can be given eternal life and have the same type of life God has, but that is the gift of God.

[JerryShugart]

Same Lord said this.

Mark 10:30 *but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.

Makes a clear distinction between the now and that age to come. Perhaps folks misunderstand some things... call that a hunch.

Yes, but then what do we do with the verses like 1 John 5:11 which state in no uncertain terms that Christians have already been given eternal life?

I believe that in the present age the one who has received the salvation of the soul already possess eternal life.

But the words at Mark 10:30 are speaking about the "body" and it will not be until the saint is resurrected in the coming age when he will receive a body that can be described as eternal.

Perhaps you have an explanation that reconciles 1 John 5:11 and Mark 10:30?

Thanks!

[John 8:32]

Are you saying that once we are saved we become religious robots and do not have a choice but to continually without fail obey God? Please show me in scripture.

1 John 2:1
My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.




It is in conjunction with God's will for us. Exercising our faith is our part.




Believers of all levels of consecration will receive eternal life.

Not religious robots, but we do not sin after the resurrection and we are truly born again.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.